Trial Discussion Thread #16

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I'm pretty sure OP would've been the last one to actually have used that toilet for a pee/no.2 .. because the toilet lid was left up! I would imagine Reeva would've closed the lid afterwards, her being a very neat and tidy looking person .. and being a woman .. no way would she have flushed and then just left the lid up!
 
Gryffindor said:
Thanks for that :-D I think she was standing in the "safest" corner of the cubicle, in order for that 1st trajectory to hit her right hip. Possibly holding onto the inside handle, if there was one, to keep it closed
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I had also considered and posted about that
The damage to the shower screen looks like it has been hit repeatedly in anger .
And then we have the smashed bedroom door ,dented bath plate and broken downstairs window .
It is so sad we have not heard testimony from his live in cleaner and handyman as to the state of that house prior to the day of shooting .
They must have had some important information
We're they ever on the prosecution witness list ?
 
TorisMom003 said:
They wouldn't, go to the toilet room that is. A burglar is also going to enter a home using the easiest way possible and is NOT going to enter a room that would be occupied first when going into the house.

MOO
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Should've said I was going by Oscar's theory if being frightened of an armed burglar, intent on harming them, straight off. If that was the burglar's intention, I'm sure they'd have headed straight to the bedroom
 
Mme Butterfly said:
Hello everybody

I have been lurking for a while, and following the Oscar Pistorius case since the beginning. I live in South Africa. I haven't made up my mind yet. Can't wait for Oscar to tell his story in court.
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Thanks for following this case along with us

:wagon: :welcome: :welcome6:
 
TorisMom003 said:
Viper, I have seen the previous posts about the arterial spatter and how that could have been. However, since we did not get to see or hear the testimony of the man that conducted the autopsy then we can only go by what was reported from those that were in court during his testimony.

My main point in saying that Reeva was still alive at the time she was carried downstairs is that there is no way, in any shape or form, that Reeva was shot at/around 3 am as the defense and OP are claiming. I am simply going by what we know as fact, what we are actually able to see and hear during the court testimony.

MOO

ETA: The media can and DO get things wrong often so I tend to not rely on just their versions of what occurred during court.
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I appreciate your concerns about things that the press says being accurate, I really do! But these quote from the doctor are very specific, and the lack of blood is obvious - the severed artery in her arm alone would have bled out massive amounts of blood in just minutes. I tend to take the opinion of the doctor that performed the autopsy and the evidence that I can see over the opinion of blood spatter guy, who like batman appears to have trouble interpreting what he is seeing because he has not consulted with others or read others investigation reports and in this case the autopsy report.

But putting that specific issue aside, it will be the DT asserting that Reeva was alive all of that time. My question is why do they need her to still be alive all of that time?
 
Viper said:
I appreciate your concerns about things that the press says being accurate, I really do! But these quote from the doctor are very specific, and the lack of blood is obvious - the severed artery in her arm alone would have bled out massive amounts of blood in just minutes. I tend to take the opinion of the doctor that performed the autopsy and the evidence that I can see over the opinion of blood spatter guy, who like batman appears to have trouble interpreting what he is seeing because he has not consulted with others or read others investigation reports and in this case the autopsy report.

But putting that specific issue aside, it will be the DT asserting that Reeva was alive all of that time. My question is why do they need her to still be alive all of that time?
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BBM

I have no idea why the defense/OP need and want Reeva to be alive that entire time. It does absolutely nothing to help their case. It is beyond the grasp of common sense to think that anyone could survive and still be alive some 20 plus minutes after receiving the types of injuries that Reeva did. The only thing that I can think of is that they must have the gunshots first as this goes to their "intruder" story. If we have the cricket bat first, then it proves that OP clearly knew that it was Reeva in the toilet room and then proves premeditation and/or the intentional killing of Reeva.

MOO
 
jay-jay said:
.. which corner do you mean .. I'm not with you?
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Sorry I think you originally thought I meant side on but I didn't, I meant forwards, pulling the handle towards her, to keep the door shut..

Looking at the toilet door from bathroom stance, the corner on the left, in front of the toilet bowl
 
I think much of OP's time on the stand will be spent saying things like:

"I can't remember. I was in a state of panic"
"I don't know. I was overcome by terror"
"I can't recall. I was in fear for my life"
"I'm not sure. I believed the intruder was coming out to kill me"
"I don't know why I thought a locked door was about to kill me, but I knew I was in grave danger and had to protect myself... oops, and Reeva too. Ooh, did I mention we were deeply in love and I couldn't be happier... and that Reeva felt the same way?"
 
TorisMom003 said:
They wouldn't, go to the toilet room that is. A burglar is also going to enter a home using the easiest way possible and is NOT going to enter a room that would be occupied first when going into the house.

MOO
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exactly.......and as Trooper pointed out a week or two ago.....
...why would hey enter a house where an argument has taken place....knowing the home owners would be awake???
 
jay-jay said:
I know, that's what I meant .. the lid .. I don't think Reeva would've left that up, but most blokes do.
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Haha I'm not a bloke and I never put the lid down. Most people don't, not in Scotland anyway ;-) haha
 
nastasya said:
Didn't you see this photo?

Shots were not random.

Last 3 shots were directly at Reeva's head after she fell to the ground.
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I'm pretty sure that was more 'luck' than judgement .. I've not agreed with steveml on many things, but I do agree with him on the impossibility of OP knowing exactly where his target was. OP may have been able to make a fairly accurate guess with regard to the first shot if he had some idea that the person was standing directly behind the door (or Reeva actually shouting or screeming might indicate that she was standing in that position) .. but the remaining three shots can only have been guesses .. and, imo, he just carried on shooting until she was silenced. If she had have still been making some sort of noise after the forth shot (he probably stopped at that point to listen and make sure), he probably would've fired another couple of rounds (that were still left in his gun). I think that if we want to try and prove that OP intentionally killed Reeva, then it doesn't do the argument any good to go off into the realms of fantasy land.
 
Gryffindor said:
Looking at the toilet door from bathroom stance, the corner on the left, in front of the toilet bowl
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She wasn't in the left hand corner though, she was directly behind the door standing face on to it .. the ballistics expert testified that. I'm not really sure why these pieces of information that have been testified by experts keep being dismissed? The ballistics man knew what he was talking about and there is no question about him being wrong.
 
Did the blood spatter expert explain what SS was when he gave his testimony? Does anyone remember? If not, no biggie, I can just go back and listen to his testimony again.
 
Gryffindor said:
Sorry I think you originally thought I meant side on but I didn't, I meant forwards, pulling the handle towards her, to keep the door shut..

Looking at the toilet door from bathroom stance, the corner on the left, in front of the toilet bowl
Click to expand...

If Reeva was in the bathroom to protect herself, I think it would be natural for her to attempt to brace the door in some way, even if it was locked. I agree that holding the handle is one possibility that could fit with the finding that she was facing the door when shot in the hip. Two hands against the door may be another possibility, particularly if there had been any attempt to hit, kick or shove the door prior to the gunshots.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.
 
I've read that OP is 5'2" without his "legs". Psychologically speaking, ifthere was prolonged arguing loud enough to be heard by neighbors, as I believe there was, is it likely OP the narcissist would do so on his stumps? Hard for me to imagine.
 
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