Trial Discussion Thread #17

[strydohj]

So while Oscar is picking up his gun, he can't at the same time say "reeva someone's in the bathroom, get out the house".

He could not tell Reeva to run out because they were trapped in the bedroom because the door was locked and apparently the key was not at hand.

 

[TorisMom003]

BIB. I didn't get that the two Blackberry phones were in the bathroom, only that they were found, perhaps in a drawer or table top in the bedroom.

Reeva's iPhone and OPs "business" iPhone were found in the bathroom. OPs "personal" iPhone that he used that night was smuggled out if the home by perhaps Aimme or Carl, I tend to think that Clarise Stander would not break the law for OP, JMO.

Weren't the two useless blackberries on the sunglass case?

Clarise Stander contaminated the crime scene. As a lawyer she should know better. Since we know that Ms Stander went upstairs "for towels" then I really don't put it past her to do other things. Also, one of the phone calls made on OP's phone was made by Ms Stander that early morning.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

He could not tell Reeva to run out because they were trapped in the bedroom because the door was locked and apparently the key was not at hand.

According to OP. Yet when he went downstairs to open the front door so that he could "take Reeva to hospital as he was told to do" he had no problem opening that "locked" bedroom door and doesn't even mention that he had to search for the key.

 

[Gryffindor]

Weren't the two useless blackberries on the sunglass case?

Clarise Stander contaminated the crime scene. As a lawyer she should know better. Since we know that Ms Stander went upstairs "for towels" then I really don't put it past her to do other things. Also, one of the phone calls made on OP's phone was made by Ms Stander that early morning.

MOO

Kinda. I recall them being found on top of the hifi x

 

[TorisMom003]

Another problem that OP is going to have concerning the "locked bedroom door".......

Remember the photo shoot that was done of OP's home for an article about him? Remember that photo of the bedside table that showed his gun (same one by the way that he used to shoot and kill Reeva), keys, watch etc? Did OP take his gun out from under his bed for that photo? Did OP usually have his gun out on the bedside table and for some reason decided to keep it under the bed now? And if the keys were kept on the bedside table as shown in that picture, why could he not find them "in a hurry" to unlock the "locked bedroom door"?

link for photo from article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-The-gun-Blade-Runner-kept-bed-pictured.html

link for photo of gun used to kill Reeva
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-court-shown-horror-bathroom-shot-Reeva.html

 

[strydohj]

What is the evidence that OP thought the intruder(s) was/were coming toward him?

Did the toilet door suddenly fling open? No

Did he see an intruder with a weapon? No

Or on what basis did he reason that go peeking around the corners in the bathroom would give him a defensive advantage comparing to stay put behind the bed in the dark bedroom and take pot shots at them when they enter the bedroom to come for the watches. Except if he was concerned that they would steal all the soap in the bathroom and leave again through the window. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Gryffindor]

Or on what basis did he reason that go peeking around the corners in the bathroom would give him a defensive advantage comparing to stay put behind the bed in the dark bedroom and take pot shots at them when they enter the bedroom to come for the watches. Except if he was concerned that they would steal all the soap in the bathroom and leave again through the window. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Haha haha LMAO!

 

[TorisMom003]

Or on what basis did he reason that go peeking around the corners in the bathroom would give him a defensive advantage comparing to stay put behind the bed in the dark bedroom and take pot shots at them when they enter the bedroom to come for the watches. Except if he was concerned that they would steal all the soap in the bathroom and leave again through the window. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Hey, that soap was expensive! :blushing:

 

[strydohj]

excerpted quote:
The closer he gets to the bathroom, the sillier "get of my house" seems to me.

Uhhh, excuse me sir.. I would love to do that at this point, but ummm it is kind of akward to say... you are standing in the toilet door with a gun...and its kind of difficult going out the window again... do you have they key to the bedroom door then I will kindly excuse myself through the front door...

 

[TorisMom003]

OMG, I'd forgotten about that. I bet they were mortified.

Imagine having an ad campaign with OP and having THAT as the caption. Hopefully they pulled the ads before their business suffered.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rds-taken-hes-charged-girlfriends-murder.html

 

[DebinGA]

CNN on how the defense will "fight back"

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/africa/pistorius-trial-defense/?hpt=wo_c2

 

[steveml]

BIB

Ah yes, like Oscar did. :facepalm:

We've had that one a few times already.

 

[lisasalinger]

Remember when some of those photos of Reeva's body came up on the court screens by accident? (I wasn't watching live at the particular point, and I don't think it was actually shown on the live streaming .. but I heard the report about it later) Well, I've got a theory that they actually show the occasional image 'by mistake' on purpose, and have body language experts there assessing his reaction to seeing them. I'm pretty sure I saw a photo of one of Reeva's ex's flash up on the screen while they were going through her What'sApp messages .. and I thought it most peculiar at the time, it was so quick and was flashed over, with nothing whatsoever being said, but I am sure that is what I saw (I need to go back and watch that entire part of the court case again to see if I can find it).

I saw it too! Here ya go

I don't recognize him as one of her ex's though.... at least not the ones that I've seen. Also, the left hand side of the chat was cut off on the screen so I can't make out who this message was from, date, time, etc

 

[delilah]

Uhhh, excuse me sir.. I would love to do that at this point, but ummm it is kind of akward to say... you are standing in the toilet door with a gun...and its kind of difficult going out the window again... do you have they key to the bedroom door then I will kindly excuse myself through the front door...

Is anyone aware of any burglar ever locking themselves in a toilet cubicle, so they are totally cornered? Makes no sense at all.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Without having heard the Defence's side we seem to be stuck with varying scenarios. Apart from the screaming and 4 shots do we have any other 'solid' evidence of pre-meditation or intentional murder?

 

[BlueShoe]

Without having heard the Defence's side we seem to be stuck with varying scenarios. Apart from the screaming and 4 shots do we have any other 'solid' evidence of pre-meditation or intentional murder?

I think not. The other evidence can be supportive, but I don't see it as determinative.

 

[james83]

He could not tell Reeva to run out because they were trapped in the bedroom because the door was locked and apparently the key was not at hand.

A likely story

 

[Gryffindor]

Right, I've transposed Oscar's BH statement without all the guff/embellishments . . .

Oscar Pistorius’*full defence statement, as read to the court by his lawyer during his bail hearing.

"On the 13th of February 2013 Reeva would have gone out with her friends and I with my friends. Reeva then called me and asked that we rather spend the evening at home. I agreed and we were content to have a quiet dinner together at home. By about 22h00 on 13 February 2013 we were in our bedroom. She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television.

"After Reeva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep. I kept my firearm, a 9mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night.

"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom.

"I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.

"I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.

"I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet.

"It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger.

"I fired shots at the toilet door. I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.

"I pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up.

I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.

"I am absolutely mortified by the events and the devastating loss of my beloved Reeva. With the benefit of hindsight I believe that Reeva went to the toilet when I went out on the balcony to bring the fan in. I cannot bear to think of the suffering I have caused her and her family, knowing how much she was loved. I also know that the events of that tragic night were as I have described them and that in due course I have no doubt the police and expert investigators will bear this in mind."



Read more:*http://www.3news.co.nz/FULL-TRANSCR...7/articleID/287516/Default.aspx#ixzz2xvgkmMlz

 

[steveml]

And why was two phone non-functional phones placed near the crime scene?? I understand the SIMS was swapped for smaller SIMs that was used in the IPhones?

Good question. We don't know where they were originally found.

This is the point Roux was making to [FONT=&quot]Col Schoombie van Remsburd, for which he couldn't provide an answer. Roux asked why photographs submitted after the crime scene are included with photographs of things which were moved later for photographing. SAPS have not labelled before and after on many (or any) of these.

He made an example of the white iPhone that was originally under a towel. The iPhone was then was then moved out in the open to photograph (you'd presume it was found out in the open). What you would normally do is take a photo (with a note explaining that it was under found under the towel) then move the item for a clear photo and label as such.

I suspect the Blackberry phones may have even been found in another room, and all the phones were put together for photography purposes, as nothing was mentioned about these during the trial by prosecution.

[/FONT]

 

[james83]

In SA the only way you'd probably shout 'it's me honey' is if you thought it was some kind of joke. The sensible thing would be to lock the door and not shout or even say anything.

If you're going to speak you may as well shout 'I'm over here', to the intruders.

It could well be that Reeva did exactly the sensible thing, to her detriment.

I disagree, you see what you describe i.e Reeva staying totally silent would be understandable if she went into the toilet with a sense that there is danger nearby and then heard Oscar shouting, but to be innocently going to the toilet and then suddenly totally out of the blue hear Oscar shouting, a natural panic reaction would occur in which she would call out to him, JMO.