Trial Discussion Thread #2 - 14.03.07, Day 5

[shane13]

Nope, there is no definite time given as to when he passed..but was definitely LESS than an hour it seems.

Thanks Carol.
I thought it was not made explicit by Nel.
Another example of attys not asking perhaps the most important questions.
But here maybe Roux will do better than Nel did?

 

[shane13]

Mr Baba says he went past Pistorius' house at 2.20am - when the guard-track was activated - and everything was normal.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-live-3215673#ixzz2vJcD5PZs
At OP's home several times had been arguing and voilence, each guard was perhaps acquainted with those situations and therefore "everything was normal" though the guard heard dispute or fight?

OK, thanks.
This disagrees with Carol's conclusion.
So I guess I will have to re-watch his whole questioning.

Udpate: Your link to the Mirror seems to say definitively that Mr Baba was there at 2:20.
If so maybe the last best hope for OP not arguing with Reeva is lost?

 

[zwiebel]

I took the guard's testimony today to mean there was a clocking in machine (where guards have to put in a card or PIN number) near OP's house. They must use it every hour on patrol, or else it comes up as failed patrol.

Not sure which guard did that patrol and clocked in at 2.20am near OP's, but whoever it was, the security guard witness said there was no sign of disturbance at OP's house then.

Roux - the reason he argued over everything is 'fine' or 'okay' is very clever, I think. He wanted the witness to concede Oscar might have said ' I am fine'. That's slightly better for his client than 'Everything's fine' when there is a dead woman in your home.

The witness would not concede that. Kept repeating OP said 'Everything's fine'. So Roux then tried to show the witness was unreliable about if OP said 'fine' or 'okay' - because that might have cast doubt on the rest of his recollection too.

 

[shane13]

I took the guard's testimony today to mean there was a clocking in machine (where guards have to put in a card or PIN number) near OP's house. They must use it every hour on patrol, or else it comes up as failed patrol.

Not sure which guard did that patrol and clocked in at 2.20am near OP's, but whoever it was, the security guard witness said there was no sign of disturbance at OP's house then.

Roux - the reason he argued over everything is 'fine' or 'okay' is very clever, I think. He wanted the witness to concede Oscar might have said ' I am fine'. That's slightly better for his client than 'Everything's fine' when there is a dead woman in your home.

The witness would not concede that. Kept repeating OP said 'Everything's fine'. So Roux then tried to show the witness was unreliable about if OP said 'fine' or 'okay' - because that might have cast doubt on the rest of his recollection too.

Thanks, Z.

So looks pretty definitive for 2:20. And that is close enough to the 3:17 to jibe with the alleged hour long arguing.

I got a similar impression re the Roux/Baba interaction re everything is fine.

What is your take on Baba's saying it was his last night?

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks, Z.

So looks pretty definitive for 2:20. And that is close enough to the 3:17 to jibe with the alleged hour long arguing.

I got a similar impression re the Roux/Baba interaction re everything is fine.

What is your take on Baba's saying it was his last night?

I really couldn't work out if he meant it was his last night on night duty, last night because he had decided to quit, or last night because he was fired after that evening.

As far as I heard, that was never made clear.

 

[zwiebel]

Baba trying to get a glimpse of what OP was wearing, despite his shock at seeing Reeva, tells me he had suspicions immediately, about what might have gone down. And that is interesting.

I would love to know what he might have heard/seen through open windows at other times.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks, Z.

So looks pretty definitive for 2:20. And that is close enough to the 3:17 to jibe with the alleged hour long arguing.

I got a similar impression re the Roux/Baba interaction re everything is fine.

What is your take on Baba's saying it was his last night?

Shane, I need to retract something I stated earlier. I know you like everything to be correct. I must have left the room (probably for a toilet break - dangerous thing to do ) and when I came back the interpreter was apologising about saying "everything was OK". I have just watched the whole testimony again and it seems Baba at one point said "everything was OK" (I think he thought it meant exactly the same). He corrected himself and insisted OP had said "everything was fine". Roux couldn't move him on that.

It seems you may well have watched all/most of Baba's testimony by now and are aware that it definitely is 2.20am on the security guards record.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Does everyone know that Sky have live channels on You Tube every day? One can also watch reruns of that day's and earlier testimony but sometimes it is necessary to run the timer button along to find the first tv pictures. They seem to have so many breaks that often there will be a static screen and it is easy to assume there is nothing being shown. I don't know if You Tube is available worldwide but thought it was worth a mention.

Here are the Samantha Taylor and Baba Testimonies which start at 14.20.

[video=youtube;iTCTiW-8rps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTCTiW-8rps[/video]

 

[turaj]

A bit of googling and found a photo of the 19 year old girlfriend...apparently sold out by a friend who took a photo and sold it to a tabloid. You would think that his high priced attorneys would have told him to lay off the women in the final months just before the trial...it just does not do anything for his image as being so broken about what happened.

 

[shane13]

Shane, I need to retract something I stated earlier. I know you like everything to be correct. I must have left the room (probably for a toilet break - dangerous thing to do ) and when I came back the interpreter was apologising about saying "everything was OK". I have just watched the whole testimony again and it seems Baba at one point said "everything was OK" (I think he thought it meant exactly the same). He corrected himself and insisted OP had said "everything was fine". Roux couldn't move him on that.

It seems you may well have watched all/most of Baba's testimony by now and are aware that it definitely is 2.20am on the security guards record.

Thanks IB. Definitive then for 2:20 at OP's.

Were you able to deduce any more re Baba's "last day" on the job?

 

[lisasalinger]

Hi all,

I need some help... Can somebody please point out to me which house is Dr. Stipp's? See my attached aerial view of the homes.

Also, can you point out to me where on Oscar's home are the bathroom windows?

It drives me nuts how they don't fully show the exhibits on camera. I have listened to Stipp a few times now and still can't totally figure out his vantage point from his balconies to the bathroom.

Thanks!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Nope, there is no definite time given as to when he passed..but was definitely LESS than an hour it seems.

That is quite wrong Carol. The time was recorded automatically and read out in court. You must be watching/reading something quite different.

 

[minor4th]

Does anyone know if the lawyers give any kind of closing summation? Or do they just do their arguing during the presentation of evidence?

 

[Interested Bystander]

He actually did call netcare after calling stander. We don't know yet the nature of the call however, I would imagine it would be for some kind of help. I assumed they told him to bring her into emergency/no ambulances available hence I surmised the car was in the driveway with the door open when people started to arrive.

He said he did but in fact he didn't according to yesterday's and today's evidence. He had not called anyone by the time the doctor arrived. Stander admitted that nobody had called anyone. When Baba arrived at OP's Stander told Baba to ring the police and call an Ambulance which he did. So far the only recorded call from OP was made around 3.20am to security but he did not say anything. All the guard could hear was crying. There may be a chance that something turns up on another phone (ie the one that was found later) that we haven't heard about yet.

 

[minor4th]

Truth be told, I found Samantha's testimony full of nonsense. I'm actually shocked that Roux didn't lay into her. I'm not going to get into a long drawn out post about why but I literally rolled my eyes when I read that when they were pulled off by police, OP was asked to step out the vehicle (why?? He was not the driver who was speeding) and secondly...who the hell shouts at a South African policeman and gets to drive off?? The only conclusion I can come to as to why OP might have been "angry" and they were allowed to drive off was because the officer solicited a bribe and OP paid it, (naturally this won't be brought up in court as it opens a whole can of worms)...you actually get arrested for speeding in this country, nevermind shouting at police, they don't care who you are..even esteemed members of our society have had the joy of being escorted to the state hotel for speeding. Ithe bribe is the only conclusion I can come up with as to why Roux didn't follow on with this. And SA metro are notorious for soliciting on the spot bribes, it's actually a huge problem in Jhb/Pretoria.

Sorry guys, I have found all the witnesses plausible so far, maybe not agreeing but definitely possibilities but not ST. She is full of it! And really, who drives around in the city you live in and not know where you are or at least ask where are we going??? I don't think roux is finished with her!

All of her testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt because she is a woman scorned, and she is clearly still very angry and upset with Oscar.

 

[Stromm]

Would he get his prosthetics in prison?

Harrowing article in the English Guardian newspaper about what life is (or can be) like for a disabled person in a South African gaol. Seems to relate more to prisoners on remand than to convicts, but bleak reading all the same.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/22/paraplegic-remand-south-africa

 

[JuneBug67]

All of her testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt because she is a woman scorned, and she is clearly still very angry and upset with Oscar.

Certainly that has to be considered. But I really didn't get that vibe. It was more still hurt and sad. Regardless, it doesn't preclude honest impressions and experiences from being communicated.

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

Hi all,

I need some help... Can somebody please point out to me which house is Dr. Stipp's? See my attached aerial view of the homes.

Also, can you point out to me where on Oscar's home are the bathroom windows?

I'll take a shot at it. OP's bathroom windows are at the very back of his house on the left; they look out onto the open field. Stipp's home is directly across the open field from those windows.

 

[minor4th]

Certainly that has to be considered. But I really didn't get that vibe. It was more still hurt and sad. Regardless, it doesn't preclude honest impressions and experiences from being communicated.

I got that vibe in a big way

 

[minor4th]

Is anyone else having trouble making sense of Shipp's sequence of events and timing?