Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[BritsKate]

OP apparently got confused himself on that point. I believe it was said by OP that he damaged the bedroom doors on his way back into the bedroom after opening the front door. He needed both open in order to carry Reeva downstairs and to the car.

I missed that but he did make sure he mentioned most of the doors were 'wheelchair-friendly' even though, to my knowledge, he doesn't use a wheelchair at all.

I found that interesting.

 

[04009margaret]

The defense hasn't made a convincing argument yet that OP's life experiences caused his "sudden terror" syndrome. He said his mom slept with a gun under her pillow, but did we hear if she ever had to use it against intruders in his presence? His dad supposedly got carjacked, but OP didn't mention a confrontation or any injuries resulting. He claimed he stopped a couple of attacks on strangers, but unless there are police reports listing him as a witness, why believe him?

What struck me in the story he told about his mum, was that when she thought there were intruders, I believe he said "mostly it was in her mind"

 

[clearskies1]

I don't see a "crime of passion" aspect to this case. Crime of passion is when something occurs -- walking in on someone in bed with your wife -- and society somehow understands that a person might overreact and wind up shooting someone (in many states in the U.S that would result in a lower "degree" of homicide). There is no evidence of that here. There seem to be 2 options: 1) premeditated murder, meaning it was an intentional killing; or 2) culpable homicide, meaning the killing was unintentional, but caused by negligence/recklessness. Somehow I think his attempt to distance himself from pulling the trigger is an attempt to beat the second option.

MOO

 

[Carol70]

::

Yes, he really did.

Can you believe it? He has to make a special effort not to lie!

I wish we could see true transcripts because I'm sure he said "I try not to lie"(in his day to day life) when Nel asked him about his religion etc, not "I"ll try not to" (on the stand, in the present).. Actually a huge difference between the two.

 

[Cher352]

I missed the afternoon session. Does anyone have a link to the video of them?

Thanks!

 

[minor4th]

But his testimony is not complete. So what happens when/if Nel gets OP to admit to more lies? Will that not be seen as the State proving their case? Just three days on the stand, with only a little more than half a day of that being cross examination is enough?

Huh? I'm saying I wasn't totally convinced of culpable homicide before his testimony, but now I am.

If his account totally crumbles under cross examination then yes that would strengthen the State's case - but I don't anticipate this happening since the State didn't actually have any evidence in the first place to prove that it's a fabrication.

It's possible though.

 

[BritsKate]

::
I wish we could see true transcripts because I'm sure he said "I try not to lie"(in his day to day life) when Nel asked him about his religion etc, not "I"ll try not to" (on the stand, in the present).. Actually a huge difference between the two.

He actually says 'I'll try not to lie, milady. As I said..' at 2:19 in the link below and you're right that it is in the same area as his religion...but that's not the only time he says something peculiar. He'll try not to lie and he'll tell the truth - as much as he can remember. It just seems really weird to qualify such statements.

You'll either tell the truth or you won't. End of. MOO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rb_KaqfS6Y

 

[kaos]

I missed that but he did make sure he mentioned most of the doors were 'wheelchair-friendly' even though, to my knowledge, he doesn't use a wheelchair at all.

I found that interesting.

I thought that it may be for guests as I'm sure he must have friends with stronger disabilities than his own. Or he may be looking towards his future as a lot of amputees sometimes end up having further operations to take even more of the limb off if it gets infected.

 

[minor4th]

That is not how I read the situation but I have no legal background only an interest.

For me what he has been saying today on the stand is that him firing the gun was automatic and without thought of the consequences due to his sudden fear.

Automatism is a very unusual plea but if it works he can get away without a custodial sentence.

I've never even heard of that :scared:

 

[nastasya]

excerpted quote:There is a definite torch and pitchfork mentality among some of the posters here.

A solid measurement of the state of the killer's case.

When killer is transparently lying, obfuscating, and making a fool of himself, posts become about how other WS members are posting.

Nice example! Thanks!!

 

[emmavoberry]

"The defense hasn't made a convincing argument yet that OP's life experiences caused his "sudden terror" syndrome."

Let's say he does have that dread syndrome--and I agree they have not made the case--he is USING his "condition" to cover up murder. Problem is, he always tweeted about going into "full combat mode" over the dryer rumbling way before he killed Reeva and home invasion is rife in SA. STILL, he lived behind a high fence with electrics atop it, had two guard dogs, lived in a well-protected gated community and his STORY doesn't wash. His community had never had an instance of violent crime, if crime at all. AND HOW DOES GOING PEE PEE SOUND LIKE A WINDOW OPENING, A PERSON BREAKING IN?

 

[BritsKate]

I thought that it may be for guests as I'm sure he must have friends with stronger disabilities than his own. Or he may be looking towards his future as a lot of amputees sometimes end up having further operations to take even more of the limb off if it gets infected.

You're a lot less cynical than I am.

 

[BritsKate]

I've never even heard of that :scared:

Sure you have. It's the sleepwalking defense...without the sleepwalking, of course.

 

[minor4th]

Am trying to figure out the explanation for the damaged bedrooms doors and whether or not he still maintains they were locked so he couldn't get out of the room.

Did he say today that he had to force them when he went upstairs for Reeva's bag ?
Thinking I must have misunderstood something because that was after he had taken Reeva downstairs ? So he couldn't possibly have had to force them .

He still maintained that he locked the bedroom door when he went to bed.

From his testimony today, it became a little more clear that his bedroom doors are double doors. I believe one of the doors is the one that he uses to enter and leave his bedroom. The other door stays latched at the bottom, and that door is not used unless there's a particular need - what I gathered is that he needed to get both doors open to carry Reeva through, so on his way back to his bedroom after he went down and unlocked the front door, he tried to kick his way through the door because it was locked and he couldn't get it open or because it was stuck due to humidity and expansion. (It wasn't totally clear).

 

[minor4th]

Sure you have. It's the sleepwalking defense...without the sleepwalking, of course.

Like aliens took over my body and I was not in control?

 

[fruity]

Ugh. I wonder how much he paid for those acting lessons. Disgraceful.

 

[kaos]

You're a lot less cynical than I am.

LOL, not when it comes to listening to OP's evidence, I'm as cynical as most then!

I'm a type 1 diabetic and remember within my first week of diagnosis being shouted at in the hospital because I wasn't wearing slippers by another patient. She screamed I'd get my feet chopped off so I immediately jumped on the bed. A nurse came along later and explained the connection with amputation and foot infections saying it can start off as a toe, then it can creep toward the ankle, that then gets taken off, then it can creep into towards the knee etc etc. I've never forgotten it and remembered when OP said he was looking into getting some more of the stump taken off and thinking he's running a risk of getting an infection for a dangerous voluntary surgery.

 

[jay-jay]

Where are these black out curtains?

I'd forgotten at which point I had heard that (there has been so much stuff presented :scared but luckily a quick google has brought up some results .. one of them here ..

"He said there was no light in the room as he had blackout curtains, except for a small LED light."

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...hen-i-realised-it-could-be-reeva-9246691.html

.. that was from yesterday's proceedings.

Edit: oops sorry, misread the question .. the blackout curtains were in the bedroom, the ones he apparently pulled after bringing in the fan/s (but not quite going out onto the balcony to get it/them), then closing the doors, then maybe/maybe not/not sure about closing the blind, then closing those curtains.

 

[lisasalinger]

Just jumping in with a quick thought.

I had a feeling that Oscar might have some selective amnesia to get past some tricky parts of his story.

He does not remember what he discussed with Netcare and he doesn't remember the call with Baba. Because how could he ever possibly adequately explain why he told a security guard that everything was fine.

But he does remember what he said to Stander less than one minute prior.

It's interesting how selective memory works.

 

[BritsKate]

Like aliens took over my body and I was not in control?

Better than sleepwalking - also known as the Twinkie defense and more recently the Xanax defense. But now I'm kinda liking alien invasion. :biggrin:

An involuntary act such as sleepwalking that is performed in a state of unconsciousness. The subject does not act voluntarily and is not fully aware of his or her actions while in a state of automatism. Automatism has been used as a defense to show that a defendant lacked the requisite mental state for the commission of a crime. A defense based on automatism asserts that there was no act in the legal sense because at the time of the alleged crime, the defendant had no psychic awareness or volition.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Automatism