Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[IfIMay]

He needs to settle down then and not be so anxious and guarded. If he is telling the truth then he needs to just tell it.

I think a lot of OP's problem is that he is very emotionally unstable still and is really unable to completely regulate his emotions or even think clearly.

I don't buy the act. The shaky voice, the cries when it suits him to break. He is guarded because he knows he cannot let the truth slip out and he cannot let Nel get it out of him in a way he's not expecting. No more. No less.

 

[Trooper]

morning , Viper... wasn't Oscar ingenious with his answer about the Ammo , the illegal ammo in the safe...!.... didn't belong to me, keeping it for dad. .don't have a gun that fires that ammo..

but if you look again at his order for his armory with Sean Rennes.. there it is. the very gun that uses that ammo.. the Mossberg..

 

[Forensics]

WOW! Good point! I never thought of that, did anyone else?:clap::yesss:

It may have been to break it so he could reach in and unlock it.

 

[Gavel Rash]

morning , Viper... wasn't Oscar ingenious with his answer about the Ammo , the illegal ammo in the safe...!.... didn't belong to me, keeping it for dad. .don't have a gun that fires that ammo..

but if you look again at his order for his armory with Sean Rennes.. there it is. the very gun that uses that ammo.. the Mossberg..

Yes...another lie/truth. < Don't have a weapon that uses it.

But. Someone will have a record of its purchase.....somewhere.

 

[Duchy]

BBM - then why not just say "Yes, I killed her". It's just one more thing that he doesn't want to verbally admit. He also said he'd 'taken responsibility' but I don't have a clue what he meant by that. Taken responsibility for what exactly? Killing Reeva? He could hardly deny it and there's no one else for him to blame for once, so what do you think he meant when he said "I've taken responsibility"?

Strange isn't it? Past tense as if it is something he has done in the past so doesn't have to do it now.

IMO he will have taken his responsibility when he has done his sentence.

 

[wb180]

The importance of this point of whether OP went out onto to the balcony or did not go out onto the balcony is that all along everyone thought he had gone out onto to the balcony and that's when Reeva got up out of bed and went into the bathroom.

If he never actually left the room, but rather just pulled the standing fan from the doorway into the bedroom, how could he have failed to see or hear her get out of bed?

I expect to see Nels close in on one point after another like this.

Also, everyone thought back then he didn't speak to RS when he grab his gun and only spoke/screamed to her as he went into the bathroom in a blaze of glory?

Now we found out, he did check up on her, in fact whispered to her before screaming down the hallway of the bathroom. But he was actually just whispering to a pillow/something because RS was in the toilet.

 

[Boodles]

Stopping by here to see what people are saying.

I have not followed, but have heard bits of OP testifying over the last few days. Has he always had the whiny, pitiful, squeaky meek voice? Or is it just a put-on for this hearing? It's very irritating and he sounds completely fake.

Nothing about his story rings true. It's farcical.

 

[Bazinga]

I do not remember Mrs. Stipp being mocked. Maybe I'll go back and read through the thread she appeared in but she was neither crucified nor mocked, <modsnip>.

Quote "That's why I find her testimony suspect. She was defensive the whole time, qualified everything, even questions that were pretty harmless. Jodi did this too. "Yeah, that looks like me," Didn't want to give an inch even on small matters because she just didn't Juan to be right on anything and wound up getting caught up in small lies that called her whole testimony into question. If you are honest and forthcoming the entire time people will not question your bias or honesty. If you act defensive the entire time that's a red flag, IMO.
__________________
"He who introduces KY into the relationship is no abused virgin." - Aristotle"

BIB From Thread 15 re Mrs Stipp's testimony

This kind of thing. To describe Mrs Stipp's defensiveness and then say Jodi did this too is offensive. I know who Jodi Arias is - a liar and convicted murderer, it is not ok to put her in a comment about Mrs Stipp. IMO.

By the way, I do see similarities between Jodi and Oscar on the stand. He comes across to me, at times, as thinking he is smarter than Nel, than everyone and argues back in a similar way. Similar to Jodi did, oscar points out everything everyone else has done wrong.

 

[Gavel Rash]

It may have been to break it so he could reach in and unlock it.

I mentioned before..but when in Oscars testimony did he use the bat to 'pry' the panel out? Because, according to batman the panel 'was' prised out.
Yet Oscar only mentions 'hitting' the door.

And why would he 'I wanted to look into the crack to see if it was Reeva'...where the door panel was prised from and not mention the action of putting the bat in there?

 

[Trooper]

the entire time this trial has proceeded, Oscar has been consulted, has consulted , has issued instruction to his attorney, without fail. He has had unfortunate breakdowns at very specific moments of the trial. Only those, and no other times.. He managed to spend 2 days on the stand giving his own testimony.. ( odd that Roux , who said he would come back to it, didn't come back to the *advertiser censored* segment at 6.30pm)... Roux has called some adjournments specifically to consult with his client, and have instructions issued to him by his client.

Its up to Roux to decide when his client is intellectually disabled. Emotionally unstable isn't enough. All defendants are unstable during x-examination. Judge Masipa has acknowledged that Oscar has been emotionally unstable since Day 1. Hasn't stopped the trial proceeding though.

 

[shane13]

Again from OP&#8217;s book and other info, that it is his father&#8217;s ammo is possible, but highly unlikely due to the following.

1. His father lives in Capetown area for some time.
2. The two are basically estranged for a number of years. Poor relations since divorce, but especially poor the last 5 years or so due to following. Henke was his first manager as OP was just getting &#8220;famous and rich.&#8221; Allegedly OP caught his Dad with his fingers in the till, and fired him as manager. Allegedly they had little to do with each other since then. Though Henke did show up at BH. but not for trial--which you think he would, esp. if ammo were his.

 

[wb180]

That's a good point.

See, I can still look at the evidence objectively

I have problems with Oscar's version and believe that some portions just don't fit together very well or they are hard to believe.

The problem I have is - if he's guilty of murder, the state needs to prove it. They need to prove that his account cannot possibly be true. It's not enough to say that his story doesn't sound true or it's far fetched or it's easier to believe he became enraged and killed Reeva and then regretted it. If there is no solid evidence refuting Oscar's account and no real evidence of intentional murder then we're stuck with OP's account.

So if this was an intentional murder, I hope to goodness the state has something more than they've shown us so far and I hope that OP's account falls apart under questioning.

Well I guess it is gonna be like the Jodi Arias case. Long cross examination as OP's testimony is suspect.

 

[Duchy]

BIB. Agreed!

Well...Imo, if it was an accident then it might be a very difficult thing to say out loud and hear. I'm putting myself in his shoes and I just get it. Like, if, god forbid I killed someone I loved by accident and the prosecutor came at me trying to get me to, essentially, admit to something I've already admitted to, but with that phraseology, I'd find it very difficult to say, "yes, I killed [insert name].

Think about those cases where a person accidentally shot a loved one thinking they're an intruder. What purpose would it serve to make them say, "I killed so and so?" I just don't understand.

So what if it's difficult? The least he could do. What about being a Christian and repenting and all that? He could say 'Yes I shot and killed Reeva, I am so so so very sorry etc.' Oh yes, I forgot, he did at the beginning to RS parents so he doesn't have to do it all again does he? What a pain. Better things to do with my time.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Again from OP’s book and other info, that it is his father’s ammo is possible, but highly unlikely due to the following.

1. His father lives in Capetown area for some time.
2. The two are basically estranged for a number of years. Poor relations since divorce, but especially poor the last 5 years or so due to following. Henke was his first manager as OP was just getting “famous and rich.” Allegedly OP caught his Dad with his fingers in the till, and fired him as manager. Allegedly they had little to do with each other since then.

Yes. an obvious concocted idea.
Easy..ask Oscar to produce a receipt in his fathers name for the ammo.

 

[sorrell skye]

OP: "I've given them [defense counsel] my version many, many, many months ago. We've reworked on it, spoken about it, and they've worked with it with me..."

When Nel called OP out on saying that his version had been "reworked", OP claimed he corrected himself and that he didn't want to use that word.

I agree with Nel: "Interesting that you did..."

The thing is - OP didn't correct himself - until Nel pointed it out to him and he said he didn't want to use that word.

I think OP's versions have been reworked so many times that OP can't keep them all straight.

1st version: BH affidavit

2nd version: Plea statement

3rd version: Current testimony

I expect to hear yet another version this morning.

 

[DebinGA]

I agree. Evidence of this:

* Shooting a gun in a crowded restaurant
* Shooting a gun out the sunroof of a car
* Getting out of the car with a loaded weapon to confront a driver that is "following him"
* Berating Reeva in public for not doing what she was told by him
* Going "Code Red" at the sound of the washing machine turned on


I feel like I am missing some. Anyone that can think of more please feel free to add to the list.

MOO

* Olympic roommate moved out because OP was always on the phone yelling at people.

 

[Duchy]

I truly wouldn't be able to say them, either, without breaking down.

Conversely, I don't think a sociopath or someone who doesn't feel genuine remorse deep down would have trouble saying them, at all.

Oh good gravy!:angel:

 

[minor4th]

I mentioned before..but when in Oscars testimony did he use the bat to 'pry' the panel out? Because, according to batman the panel 'was' prised out.
Yet Oscar only mentions 'hitting' the door.

And why would he 'I wanted to look into the crack to see if it was Reeva'...where the door panel was prised from and not mention the action of putting the bat in there?

Why would you believe batman though?

No, Oscar did not say he pried out the panels with the cricket bat. He said he tore them out with his hands once he had an opening to do so

 

[Duchy]

What's the 411 on (state) Nel? Thank you (Watching the trial now on wildabouttrial)

Also, so Reeva had her phone with her in the bathroom. What does Oscar say why he thinks Reeva took the phone with her in the middle of the night to pee?

Has Reeva's phone records been released? Did she maybe receive a call in the middle of the night? Or a text? Or did she go in the bathroom to make a call? Sorry I'm late to the game and any info you guys are willing to throw at me would be appreciated

If you go to You Tube you will be able to watch all the trial. Hours and hours of it. Not something anyone can fit in to a post on here. You can also read through all the threads on the trial here.

 

[Rumpole]

Oooooh noooo my friend! Not. At. All.

OK... "you can have your pound of flesh"

Nel will shout. Nel will make OP cry. Nel will make OP vomit.

Not exactly hard to do that.

Let Nell have at it.... Ask confusing questions and then ask OP if he remembers what the question was.... chit I have no idea what Nel's question was either after he has faffed about :floorlaugh:

OP's best answer would be:

"M'Lady, Mr Nel's last question was: 'What was my last question?' "

The fact will remain that Nel will NOT prove at all that OP shot knowing that Reeva was in the toilet. Once he sits back down, we can advance the case by seeing what the other half of the evidence is.
It's known in the trade as "The Defence Case"
Most trials have one of those.