Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[Trooper]

Was it the police who rendered the weapon safe?

yes , indeedy, and very carefully, too.

 

[wb180]

You sure ST that's with a pistol. Isn't it a sub-machine gun that once you press the trigger if you keep it pressed it just keeps firing? From all the videos I watched and what I have read with an automatic pistol, or maybe it's called a semi-automatic pistol, you still have to press the trigger again and again if you want it to fire more than once, the only difference is that it automatically loads a bullet in the chamber after each shot so there is no gap, and that's how you can do double-taps... but you still have to press the trigger for each shot.

You can have a Glock/pistol that is fully automatic (i.e. hold onto trigger and the bullets come out).

 

[G.bng]

Do you know anybody who uses plastic bags to stop bleeding? ANYTHING would be better than plastic bags to stop bleeding.

However horrible it sounds plastic bags are the best diy kit to try to stop bleeding. The are used by police and paramedics in emergencies when nothing purposely meant is available.

 

[Cherwell]

sorry I still trying to figure out how to quote from articles so that the text is in a grey box.

Highlight the text you want to show as quoted, and press the icon that looks like a square speech bubble (it's between the 'insert image' icon and the hash tag).

 

[kaos]

yes , indeedy, and very carefully, too.

In today's testimony OP said something along the lines of "I always make sure my weapon is safe before I hand it over to somebody, I've been trained to do that".

 

[Trooper]

In today's testimony OP said something along the lines of "I always make sure my weapon is safe before I hand it over to somebody, I've been trained to do that".

what he says and what he does are complete strangers to reality.

 

[TorisMom003]

If he's the same guy who went through the licensing rules then it was 11th day.

Thank you. I found what I was looking for. I wanted to see the list of the weapons that OP was going to purchase. I wanted to see if any of them were fully automatic. There was one that I was unsure of, the Vektor LM6. I have found that the LM6 model is semi-automatic though.

And yes, this is all about me.....lol

 

[Suthrnqt]

However horrible it sounds plastic bags are the best diy kit to try to stop bleeding. The are used by police and paramedics in emergencies when nothing purposely meant is available.

Also, they are a great choice when PPE is not available.

 

[TorisMom003]

In today's testimony OP said something along the lines of "I always make sure my weapon is safe before I hand it over to somebody, I've been trained to do that".

The gun was in the bathroom on the rug in front of the shower door. The gun was loaded, cocked and ready to fire again. OP may not be lying in that instance because he didn't hand it over to anyone when police arrived that morning.

ETA: Although Mr. Stander did lie to Dr. Stipp when he said that the weapon was secure, that he had it.

 

[Viper]

You can have a Glock/pistol that is fully automatic (i.e. hold onto trigger and the bullets come out).

There is no such Glock pistol, probably not any pistol unless it is a one off novalty gun. I own a Glock 17 9mm, it holds 17 bullet cartridges. If it spit them out like that I would be out of ammo in about two seconds, and I would probably not even have hit Mr. Armed Intruder with the gun flailing around during that!

 

[asanque]

But I'll say again, I don't think there's any way for the state to get around the evidence that the gunshots were at 3:00- 3:10, at which time Reeva died and could not have been the one screaming, and the cricket bat hit the door at 3:17. That's hard evidence that cannot and has not been explained by the state. No one who believes Oscar is guilty will even come close to addressing this - choosing instead to dismiss this and conclude that the witnesses who heard "a woman" screaming were all correct, despite the impossibility.

<modsnip>

The prosecution case is that the gunshots were at 3:17 (Burger, Johnson, Dr. Stipp, Mrs. Stipp)

Van der Merwe heard gunshots around 3 (could have been 3:17)

The earlier banging that awoke some of the witnesses could have been the cricket bat or a range of loud banging made by OP during his fight with Reeva.

I can't believe the cavalier way you brush off all these independent witnesses hearing a woman scream for help (all educated with no past dealings with OP).

In addition, numerous friends of OP have now testified against him.

There is one person with an agenda here and a reason to lie, and that person is OP.

In addition, OP has already lied on stand and admitted submitting a bail affidavit with inaccuracies.

 

[Trooper]

The gun was in the bathroom on the rug in front of the shower door. The gun was loaded, cocked and ready to fire again. OP may not be lying in that instance because he didn't hand it over to anyone when police arrived that morning.

ETA: Although Mr. Stander did lie to Dr. Stipp when he said that the weapon was secure, that he had it.

Oscar was very lucky he didn't stand on it while 'battling' to get Reeva's body out of the cubicle.. one wrong step and he would have shot himself in the groin. Goodbye, wedding tackle.

I am half inclined to give Johan Standar a free pass on a few things.. I doubt that Oscar directed him to call an ambulance . That Standar didn't call one , in the absence of any maliciousness, makes sense if Oscar didn't state this instruction. It was a mighty short yet galvanizing call, it propelled him and Clarice straight over there at 3.25 approx. in the morning. I don't doubt it was a highly agitated exchange of words..

I'm thinking, when Stipp asked Standar was the gun ( that obviously caused this shattered mess ) secured, Standar didn't know which way was up..

 

[turaj]

Do you think his 'dream team' of lawyers are not on the ball? Or he's shooting his mouth off a bit too much on the stand? I'm starting to suspect a bit of both!

I think I am not alone in doing a complete 180 in terms of my opinion of Roux and Nell. In watching the state's case I thought Nell was dull and Roux just obnoxious but possibly effective. Now I absolutely love the way Nell is "putting it to" OP and I think he is going to tear each of the defense witnesses up in just the same way. I would think that OP is really having some sleep problems this week. As was mentioned earlier today even his sister is looking at him with disbelief in her face. Also it really says alot about OP that his own father is not in the courtroom. Even Jodi Arias' parents were there.

 

[Trooper]

I'm a long way from giving Clarice a free pass, though.. Clarice zipping here and there , contaminating this and that, Clarice being the hostess, greeting everyone at the door, taking it upon herself to indicate to VanRensburg who did what , and why and when, using Oscars phone to call Oscars friends.. (who bought that phone downstairs? how did that phone get downstairs?) Clarice talking to and , as Roux yelled, comforting Oscar, Clarice in the kitchen, in the laundry, upstairs, downstairs, in the hallway, .....

 

[Viper]

This has been a fantastic day for the prosecution. I still can't believe OP said all those things from the witness stand!!! I mean I heard it at the time, but the implications are so significant. IDK. I am having trouble understanding how or why OP went to trial with this story. Shaking my head...

 

[nastasya]

Trip 4. this one is STILL the mystery trip. no explanation for this one yet.. This is the one Stipp thought Oscar may be on his way to off himself with the missing gun.. he asks Standar is the gun secured?? Standar says yes. It wasn't, its still upstairs in the bathroom, loaded, ready to fire . Clarice faffing around talking talking, dabbing.

Correction: We don't know where gun was when OP made mystery trip upstairs.

The odd part is Stander claims to know the gun was secured. Why would he lie?

Why would Stander NOT be worried about OP killing himself, while Stipp is worried?

Conclusion is if Stander thought the gun was secured then Mystery trip was for OP to place the gun on the mat outside the shower to complete the illusion. Maybe even put the phone under the mat.

Btw, how did phone get under the mat if OP tried using it to call for help? If Nel decimated OP's story on the fans, I'm sure the bathroom testimony will be even more damning.

 

[minor4th]

I'm not brushing off evidence and it gets kind of personal when you respond to a post with "this is absolute nonsense."

Stipp's heard gunshots at 3:00 ...and again at 3:17.

The state's case is that the gunshots were at 3:17 but that's refuted by their own witnesses who heard gunshots around 3:00 and by their forensic experts who said the gunshots had to have happened before the cricket bat hitting the door.

Gunshots at 3:00 - heard by Dr Stipp and Mrs Stipp

Screaming after the gunshots - heard by Stipps, Burger, Johnson - couldnt have been Reeva since she died after being shot at 3:00.

Cricket bat hitting the door at 3:17 - heard by Dr Stipp, Mrs. Stipp, Merwe, Burger and Johnson, all of whom thought these were also gunshots because they sound the same.

Loud crying after 3:17 - heard by Merwe and the Stipps - this was Oscar as well.

No matter how often and how stridently this is dismissed or ignored or avoided - that's the evidence. And it means that the "woman" screaming after the gunshots could not have been Reeva. What kind of barrier is there that this simple information cannot penetrate awareness?

 

[nastasya]

The gun was in the bathroom on the rug in front of the shower door. The gun was loaded, cocked and ready to fire again. OP may not be lying in that instance because he didn't hand it over to anyone when police arrived that morning.

ETA: Although Mr. Stander did lie to Dr. Stipp when he said that the weapon was secure, that he had it.

How do we know Stander lied?

Maybe he was telling the truth, and OP subsequently planted the gun back in the bathroom on the mat.

Notice that his story doesn't account for how the gun got back into the bathroom and found it's way to the mat.

 

[Viper]

I'm not brushing off evidence and it gets kind of personal when you respond to a post with "this is absolute nonsense."

Stipp's heard gunshots at 3:00 ...and against at 3:17.

The state's case is that the gunshots were at 3:17 but that's refuted by their own witnesses who heard gunshots around 3:00 and by their forensic experts who said the gunshots had to have happened before the cricket bat hitting the door.

Gunshots at 3:00 - heard by Dr Stipp and Mrs Stipp

Screaming after the gunshots - heard by Stipps, Burger, Johnson - couldnt have been Reeva since she died after being shot at 3:00.

Cricket bat hitting the door at 3:17 - heard by Dr Stipp, Mrs. Stipp, Merwe, Burger and Johnson, all of whom thought these were also gunshots because they sound the same.

Loud crying after 3:17 - heard by Merwe and the Stipps - this was Oscar as well.

No matter how often and how stridently this is dismissed or ignored or avoided - that's the evidence. And it means that the "woman" screaming after the gunshots could not have been Reeva. What kind of barrier is there that this simple information cannot penetrate awareness?

You are still on the "bat before gunshot sounds gunshot before bat sounds page?" There has been so much evidence since that defense argument. Evidence that cancels out and decides that argument. IMHO

 

[minor4th]

You are still on the "bat before gunshot sounds gunshot before bat sounds page?" There has been so much evidence since that defense argument. Evidence that cancels out and decides that argument. IMHO

No there hasn't. It's still there and it's still not explained by the state and it still can't be ignored no matter how much anyone despises OP or wants him to be guilty of murder.

It's not an argument, by the way, it's a recitation of the evidence. It speaks for itself.