Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[AlexUK]

I wish I knew what Nel was trying to get at with the fans. My best guess is he was somehow trying to show that Oscar never really got up to move fans in - that this was just a fabrication by OP to explain away what really happened. If that was his intent, he didn't quite get there IMO.

No one has brought up Reeva's clothing and that is amazing to me! I assume it's not really an issue and that's why neither side has discussed it.

Has any explanation been given re the ladies jeans under the window in the garden? Can"t remember any mention yet.

 

[Gryffindor]

Has any explanation been given re the ladies jeans under the window in the garden? Can"t remember any mention yet.

They've not been mentioned at all, as yet.

 

[jay-jay]

My oh my such lies over lies over lies!

I can't believe how his family is feeling as they hear his lies!

I wonder if the penny has dropped with them yet? .. especially Uncle Arnold and Aimee .. I did notice her expression was slightly different today and it was almost like a beginning realisation, and 'oh my god, you did, didn't you ..' I may have been imagining that though .. I was glad to see she had stopped with the dramatics though, that really was way OTT, imo.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes. And for some reason that song is very ironic to me - the "B***** don't kill my vibe" by Kendrick Lamar I believe grew up in Oakland and grew up surrounded by gangs and violence, and that is what he raps about. However, here we see OP listening to a song by that artist, while in the meantime he is in constant inner fear and paranoia of violence, etc..

I also can't understand why he didn't just have a personal bodyguard, or at least someone stationed at the door to his apartment at night. I wouldn't expect this for regular people in S. Africa, but didn't he have enough money to do this?

JMO.

I haven't listened to the song ,only know Reeva didn't like it so chances are I wouldn't either

 

[soozieqtips]

Oscar was the one who chose to write in his bail affidavit that they were "deeply in love" and he knew that Reeva felt the same. (paraphrasing)

Because of this, you bet your @ss the State is testing his claim.

People can be annoyed by the text messages and just think they are frivolous and silly to dissect, but do you really think the State was going to take that sentence and accept it?

Out of fairness to Reeva, I'm glad that they are dissecting the text messages and shoving OP's assertion down his throat that she was deeply in love with him.

I agree they have to disprove OP's claim about it being a 'deeply loving relationship', because he put it in his affidavit for a reason, and everything that's in it should be tested. None of what he said should be taken as the truth just because he said it. Today, Nel focused on how much of the relationship was all about OP, him him him - what Reeva could do for him. OP actually stated that Reeva was never scared of him, and that some of the things in her texts were not true or exaggerations. Reeva said she was scared of him sometimes. It's on record. And OP said it wasn't true. She wasn't scared of him. So he 'knew' she loved him deeply (affidavit), he 'knew' she went to bed 'loved' that night, and he 'knew' she wasn't scared of him... even though she said she was. So now he can read Reeva's mind.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Today is going to be another super WOW day in the Oscar version of truth.

Nel will be filling in a timeline that is glossed over by Oscar, between the hours of 10pm and 3.16am.

When Oscar argued, chased and shot to kill Reeva. Hypothetically of course! :floorlaugh:

 

[kaos]

Does anybody think the iPad data might indeed show something relevant and that Nel kind of glossed over it's importance with the expert until he got OP on the stand?

 

[Gavel Rash]

Does anybody think the iPad data might indeed show something relevant and that Nel kind of glossed over it's importance with the expert until he got OP on the stand?

Definitely! The fact it was synced to his phone also. The info it has on it that could have been possibly wiped from his phone he didn't hand n for two weeks, <modsnip>!

 

[aa9511]

It is suggesting that OP knows very well that texts can and may be saved. OP is extremely worried about his image and what gets put out in the media. OP has stated that he called Reeva more often than he texted her. OP said that he preferred to say to her what he needed to on a phone call or in person. Just because there is no text to prove that OP was jealous and upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee does not mean that he was fine and not upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee. Even though OP claimed during his testimony that he was fine and not upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee it does not mean that it was the truth. OP has lied on the stand.

MOO

Yes, great point.

Now, I know some people who believe his story might say, well what about his whole relationship with Sam and how come he was seemingly okay with her and, well we know she is still alive.

I will put it to you that he already had Sam "under control." That is the difference. Sam was young and obviously in love with him - she was still crying about their break-up. She did everything Oscar told her to. Also, and this is an important point - their relationship was mostly in the time before he became very famous.

Once he hit the "big leagues," he had to find the "perfect" girlfriend who was, in his eyes, up to his new "standard." He saw this in Reeva - beautiful, smart, charming, etc.. He could take her to events, take her to functions, and she would make him look good as well as carry on intelligent conversations and generally, make him look good.

But the problem was that he expected all of that and nothing less from Reeva. She had to put on a certain public image for him. And IMO, Reeva early on in their relationship felt this imbalance in their relationship.

This is not to say Sam was any less than Reeva, but there is an age difference, and so Reeva contained other qualities that can only be had with some age.

JMO.

 

[minor4th]

Does anybody think the iPad data might indeed show something relevant and that Nel kind of glossed over it's importance with the expert until he got OP on the stand?

I doubt it

 

[Gryffindor]

Does anybody think the iPad data might indeed show something relevant and that Nel kind of glossed over it's importance with the expert until he got OP on the stand?

I don't think it/they will reveal anything significant

 

[Gavel Rash]

I doubt it

why do you think this?

 

[aa9511]

I haven't listened to the song ,only know Reeva didn't like it so chances are I wouldn't either

I don't know if it's so much in that particular song, but I know he generally raps about his upbringing and has many violent lyrics, b/c that is the surroundings he grew up in.

 

[minor4th]

why do you think this?

Because Nel has had his chance to go over any data that would help his case. I don't think there would be any reason to not present it during his own case and wait for the defense case.

 

[jay-jay]

Thank you. I found a summary of day 4 that says Dr. Stipp left after the paramedics arrived. He was outside with Mr Stander when he saw OP going upstairs. This was before the medics arrived.

I will look at the video to confirm later tonight. Thanks again.

I've checked Juror13/lisa's blog and this seems to confirm what you've said there that OP went upstairs *before* the paramedics arrived ..

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-4/

<modsnip>

.. so it does appear that OP *still* hasn't answered our question about what he was doing when he trotted off upstairs almost immediately after Dr Stipp examining Reeva, and before the ambulance arrived.

 

[Viper]

I wish I knew what Nel was trying to get at with the fans. My best guess is he was somehow trying to show that Oscar never really got up to move fans in - that this was just a fabrication by OP to explain away what really happened. If that was his intent, he didn't quite get there IMO.

No one has brought up Reeva's clothing and that is amazing to me! I assume it's not really an issue and that's why neither side has discussed it.

BIB. Here you go!

Oscar Pistorius trial: Police tampered with crime scene, says Blade Runner

In a period of fierce questioning, Mr Nel pointed out a series of objects in one picture which ran counter to Pistorius's account of events.

In response, the sprinter accused the police of tampering with the scene but Mr Nel ridiculed this suggestion.

"Let's sum up: A policeman moved the two fans, put the duvet on the floor, opened the curtains wider than they should be before the photographs were taken," Mr Nel said.

"Your version is so improbable that nobody would ever think it's reasonably possibly true... Your version is a lie."

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-...-police-of-tampering-with-crime-scene/5382550

 

[aa9511]

Thanks Lisa.

He'd had plenty girlfriends previously and one lasting about 3 years. I wonder what made him risk everything by shooting this one particular girl after only a few months?

Because unfortunately, Reeva coincided with the time when his popularity/celebrity was at its height and growing.

This is the difference. IMO.

 

[BritsKate]

Thanks Lisa.

He'd had plenty girlfriends previously and one lasting about 3 years. I wonder what made him risk everything by shooting this one particular girl after only a few months?

I hope you don't mind me answering. I was in a long-term abusive relationship with a man who was as sweet as honey to his first ex-wife. It's actually one of many things that made identifying my own abuse so difficult - he just didn't have a history of it that was recognizable - and everyone, everywhere claims there's always a history. But sometimes there just isn't.

Oscar's previous relationships had all been with people a lot younger, presumably more immature, but also more easily dominated. Reeva had already seen an abusive relationship from the 'inside', was older, presumably more mature, and independent. I don't think it's much of a stretch to conclude Reeva was very different than what Oscar was accustomed to - in many ways - and this likely led to conflict he may not have encountered in previous relationships.

JMO and FWIW

 

[Gavel Rash]

Because Nel has had his chance to go over any data that would help his case. I don't think there would be any reason to not present it during his own case and wait for the defense case.

Ok...just strange he would revisit asking Oscar who was on the ipad when they went to bed. I sort of think he has something to say about it, but he's letting Oscar say he went to sleep at the moment like he said he did at 10pm. It is appearing obvious that this may not have been the case.

 

[jay-jay]

http://m.wikihow.com/Avoid-Being-Shot


Oh this is horrible! I faced a gun in my face once in a robbery and all I could say to them was 'sorry'! Sorry I had interrupted their robbery. I consider myself very lucky they didn't shoot me.

.. you probably threw them totally off their guard, well done