Trial Discussion Thread #25 - 14.04.14, Day 22

[Linda7NJ]

See that's the thing with a liar....
A liar must not be questioned in any non linear fashion! Their story falls apart.
A liar doesn't know the story backwards and forwards or from any point in between. They practice their story in a linear way.
Which always exposes the liar to a devastating cross examination. Full of contradictions and long pauses... or drama queen crying jags to buy time.

All IMO


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[atthelake]

I wonder if Roux's ballistics expert will support OP's revelation today that he shot one-handed with arm bent, not extended?

Clarification please. Wasn't it the first time asked he said that arm was bent, but SECOND TIME I saw nel mirroring him and had arm extended straight? Do others recall this difference. I'm up late (lol early..Eastern time here) so get things wrong often! TIA

 

[G.bng]

Just found this court stenographer's transcript on Sky news website

http://news.sky.com/story/1242058/oscar-pistorius-trial-stenographers-transcript

Wish these transcripts were the court stenographer's but they are in fact a Sky reporters and I don't know if they have improved but I have the first 4 or 5 days pasted in google docs, but stopped because they miss a lot and interpret some things, so unless they've changed the person doing them for someone much much better I wouldn't rely on them.

 

[kittychi]

YES exactly, I had the same reservation. I just think everything would have been much harder if he had been on his stumps...I just can't "imagine" or picture it happening in that way when I try to picture it.

For one thing, Reeva would have to have felt very threatened/scared to go and lock herself into the bathroom. I said from the beginning that it makes more sense that Oscar had his stumps on and that's why he was able to fight with her and threaten her.

But IDK b/c then there is the ballistic evidence so I just don't know.

I do know that he's lying, so either way doesn't really matter.

JMO.

BBM: Beginning with bringing the fans in from the balcony!

 

[canny]

I also need to listen to that bit again where OP is tesifying about when he 'realised it could be Reeva' .. then checked the bed from the bathroom side, then got off the bed on the balcony side .. then I'm sure he said he checked the floor with his hands before checking the curtains .. but then later on he said he went straight to check the curtains after having checked the bed, and that he only checked along the side of the bed by walking along it! I swear that is what he said! I need to go back and verify ..

He managed to successfully carry out this feat in pitch darkness without toppling any belongings over on the right side of the side of the bed with a loaded hot corked gun in his right hand, the most crucial side of his bedroom.

 

[aa9511]

I am the same height as OP and my bathroom door is similar, I just stood in front of it and if I had a gun, held it in front of me with a bent arm the bullet holes A to D would be the same, and the bullets would go downwards. I have always thought he was on his prothetics the whole time and I am now convinced he was.

ETA I am same height as him with prothesis on, i.e. 6 feet and a half an inch.

Further edit - I would have to be quite close to the door though, like 1 metre away, the further I move away the lower the bullet holes would be.

You are tall!!

I just tried some general actions, but I am not as tall, but just generally, it seems to me that if he was holding the gun with arms extended out and slightly down (on prosthetics), the point of firing would be roughly the same as if he was on his stumps and shooting by holding his arms out even with his shoulder.

With the prosthetics, I'm talking about just extending the arms, but not moving the shoulders. So kind of like if you start with your arms together at around the breast-bone area, and then just extend arms out and downward.

 

[weeeva]

I have just finished watching it. Thank goodness it's over, my blood pressure must be through the roof.
I was teetering on the fence, but after watching that I am firmly back on. Whether OP deliberately killed Reeva or not, whether he was terrified or in an insane rage, I think we must all agree that his memory is going to be cloudy in some areas. Nel keeps saying this is impossible, that is impossible, everything is impossible according to him. I don't agree with him.
He made a huge blunder this morning when he accused OP of not mentioning something. Everyone including Roux and even the judge had to refer back to court records for the truth.
So Nel could not even remember an important piece of testimony from a couple of hours back, and he is trying to demolish OP for not remembering every exact detail from a year ago. OP has a reason for his cloudy memory. What is Nel's excuse?
I will have to go and try to calm down a bit. Be back later.

 

[DebinGA]

Clarification please. Wasn't it the first time asked he said that arm was bent, but SECOND TIME I saw nel mirroring him and had arm extended straight? Do others recall this difference. I'm up late (lol early..Eastern time here) so get things wrong often! TIA

I welcome correction as I wasn't watching, but following along here.

 

[BritsKate]

I have just finished watching it. Thank goodness it's over, my blood pressure must be through the roof.

I was teetering on the fence, but after watching that I am firmly back on. Whether OP deliberately killed Reeva or not, whether he was terrified or in an insane rage, I think we must all agree that his memory is going to be cloudy in some areas. Nel keeps saying this is impossible, that is impossible, everything is impossible according to him. I don't agree with him.

He made a huge blunder this morning when he accused OP of not mentioning something. Everyone including Roux and even the judge had to refer back to court records for the truth.

So Nel could not even remember an important piece of testimony from a couple of hours back, and he is trying to demolish OP for not remembering every exact detail from a year ago. OP has a reason for his cloudy memory. What is Nel's excuse?

I will have to go and try to calm down a bit. Be back later.

I believe many, myself included, are questioning why - if Oscar's memory is clouded - can he so distinctly remember to correct the prosecutor on very small and even sometimes benign details?

Imo, it wasn't a huge blunder but rather a mistake and one Nel conceded. Nel's pool of people helping him to keep straight Oscar's ever-evolving 'version' is decidedly smaller than Websleuths.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[kittychi]

....has there been testimony yet if he got the key while it was in the lock on the other side? Or from the floor as I've heard mentioned? (could his arms reach down and get the key...hmmmm. )

Here is what he says in his bail affidavit about the key:

I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive. I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom.

 

[aa9511]

I reckon you could still believe he was innocent if you listened to him on the stand with your fingers in your ears shouting at the top of your voice.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[DebinGA]

I am the same height as OP and my bathroom door is similar, I just stood in front of it and if I had a gun, held it in front of me with a bent arm the bullet holes A to D would be the same, and the bullets would go downwards. I have always thought he was on his prothetics the whole time and I am now convinced he was.

ETA I am same height as him with prothesis on, i.e. 6 feet and a half an inch.

Further edit - I would have to be quite close to the door though, like 1 metre away, the further I move away the lower the bullet holes would be.

I'm convinced he was wearing his legs now too. Several days ago someone posted a medical study re amputees' balance issues. The study found that vision is pivotal to double amputees' ability to remain upright, but significantly more important to those with below-the-knee amputations like OP. There's no way in the world imo that OP, a world class athlete, would have risked serious injury flailing around in the dark rather than quickly putting on his legs.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I gotta say this case is making me a little cuckoo and it isn't Nel's fault. Apart from the defendant changing every conceivable aspect - sometimes even in the same sentence; we were told that double taps were the reason Reeva never screamed and the witnesses were wrong; we've been told the screaming was Oscar who sounded like a woman; that we'll hear testimony that the nearest neighbours never heard any screaming; the double taps turned into quick succession but the testimony of a pause between shots is still wrong because Reeva had no time to scream, because there was no screaming, because Oscar was screaming like a woman who was also crying like a man.

It's the very definition of crazy-making at its finest!

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

I think it makes all of us a little cuckoo ,me included lol
I have a good feeling the judge is on top of it though .
Everyday I listen I have more confidence in her ability to make sense of important facts which will enable her to make a decision.

 

[Viper]

just rewatching x-exam as i missed the 1st hour. Wat im wondering about is this blue light on the amplifier. When Reeva isnt there what does he use to cover the blue light that bothers him so much.

Plus, im sorry, but you know what your equipment does. Whether the light will be on if the amp is on or off.

BIB Indeed! And if it was a nuisance it would be in some other location. But here is OP on the subject when Nel challenged OP's purpose for covering the light with Reeva's jeans:


Nel: You have to take time to build a time gap for Reeva to get to the bathroom.

OP: That is not true, my lady.

Nel: You had to, that is why you say the light bothered you.

OP: It is the state that is trying to buy time. I am not the one trying to buy time.

BIB LOL! :floorlaugh:

 

[james83]

I have just finished watching it. Thank goodness it's over, my blood pressure must be through the roof.
I was teetering on the fence, but after watching that I am firmly back on. Whether OP deliberately killed Reeva or not, whether he was terrified or in an insane rage, I think we must all agree that his memory is going to be cloudy in some areas. Nel keeps saying this is impossible, that is impossible, everything is impossible according to him. I don't agree with him.
He made a huge blunder this morning when he accused OP of not mentioning something. Everyone including Roux and even the judge had to refer back to court records for the truth.
So Nel could not even remember an important piece of testimony from a couple of hours back, and he is trying to demolish OP for not remembering every exact detail from a year ago. OP has a reason for his cloudy memory. What is Nel's excuse?
I will have to go and try to calm down a bit. Be back later.

Problem is it's a very selective cloudy memory that he has, also I wouldnt presume that was an 'unintentional' mistake from Nel.

 

[aoibhinn]

I welcome correction as I wasn't watching, but following along here.

Originally Posted by atthelake
Clarification please. Wasn't it the first time asked he said that arm was bent, but SECOND TIME I saw nel mirroring him and had arm extended straight? Do others recall this difference. I'm up late (lol early..Eastern time here) so get things wrong often! TIA

I'm dreadfully confused on this point, also.

As far as I can see, there are three positions available to OP. Standing in prosthetics, standing on his stumps or kneeling.

I have no experience with handguns. However, it seems to me that the most precarious position would be firing from a standing position on his stumps, holding the wall for balance. I would have thought that the recoil from each shot would have affected his balance, and made it difficult to hit the door as he did.

Clarification and correction would be very appreciated. I can't help feeling that he shot 'from the hip' while standing in prosthetics or at least from a kneeling position. But not from a standing position on his stumps.

 

[kittychi]

I have just finished watching it. Thank goodness it's over, my blood pressure must be through the roof.
I was teetering on the fence, but after watching that I am firmly back on. Whether OP deliberately killed Reeva or not, whether he was terrified or in an insane rage, I think we must all agree that his memory is going to be cloudy in some areas. Nel keeps saying this is impossible, that is impossible, everything is impossible according to him. I don't agree with him.
He made a huge blunder this morning when he accused OP of not mentioning something. Everyone including Roux and even the judge had to refer back to court records for the truth.
So Nel could not even remember an important piece of testimony from a couple of hours back, and he is trying to demolish OP for not remembering every exact detail from a year ago. OP has a reason for his cloudy memory. What is Nel's excuse?
I will have to go and try to calm down a bit. Be back later.

IMO Oscar's memory is cloudy because he doesn't remember what his story line is supposed to be. If he does not remember something, he should say so, not make something up.

I did not catch Nel's "blunder" this morning, but if you read OP's affidavit again and then listen to his testimony these last few days, you may wonder about many things that were crucial and were left out of both the bail hearing affidavit AND his trial statement.

Interesting that his memory would be sharper today rather than a few days after it happened.

Interesting to me that you have picked up on a few minutes of the day, yet OP was testifying for hours. Does he pass with flying colors in your opinion?

 

[aa9511]

Ooh. Stick a fork in Oscar, he's done.

RT @barrybateman: #OscarTrial Nel: the first shot hit Reeva in the hip. She fell on the magazine rack. You changed your aim and shot at it. BB

Game over, Oscar.

 

[Linda7NJ]

BIB Indeed! And if it was a nuisance it would be in some other location. But here is OP on the subject when Nel challenged OP's purpose for covering the light with Reeva's jeans:


Nel: You have to take time to build a time gap for Reeva to get to the bathroom.

OP: That is not true, my lady.

Nel: You had to, that is why you say the light bothered you.

OP: It is the state that is trying to buy time. I am not the one trying to buy time.

BIB LOL! :floorlaugh:

Hilarious!

I can just imagine him as a child...always whining, crying, blaming everyone around him, doing whatever it took to get his way.


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[james83]

I couldnt work how anyone could buy his story before he testified, how anyone can still believe him now I will never know, but it"s there right I suppose.