Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[Deleted member 102539]

Aaarghh.You just reminded me of something. My experience of an intruder;

Late night, I am on the first floor of a ruined, isolated house in a foreign country on a freezing night, taking a shower. Only my barky dog is with me, but locked outside the bathroom. There are two locked doors between me and the ruined ground floor, which has broken windows, doors and no lights.

As I'm in the shower, there is a crash, the tinkle of broken glass from downstairs, frantic barking from the dog for a moment, then all falls silent....Then all the power goes. I am naked, freezing, no idea where the dog is, in complete darkness and the only window that is survivable to jump from is in the bathroom where I am.

The most horrible experience of my life - I thought 'they' had got my dog.

Nightmare or real??

 

[zwiebel]

Well, I didn't give the hyphen much thought, but OP doesn't seem to have exerted himself on RS's behalf during their short time together. He didn't behave like someone who loved his lady and delighted in pleasing her imo. RS tweeted a week before about having a dinner/movie night at home with her boo. She offered to cook Valentine's dinner for him, and she was cooking for OP on Feb. 13 too. Maybe I missed the testimony about kind, unselfish things OP did for Reeva.

Oh no, I wasn't suggesting OP demonstrated unselfish love for Reeva - or even any love at all. I think she did for him though. The few texts we saw, she was very supportive and caring. That's love, to me.

I think she may have thought she could 'save' him.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Aaarghh.You just reminded me of something. My experience of an intruder;



Late night, I am on the first floor of a ruined, isolated house in a foreign country on a freezing night, taking a shower. Only my barky dog is with me, but locked outside the bathroom. There are two locked doors between me and the ruined ground floor, which has broken windows, doors and no lights.



As I'm in the shower, there is a crash, the tinkle of broken glass from downstairs, frantic barking from the dog for a moment, then all falls silent....Then all the power goes. I am naked, freezing, no idea where the dog is, in complete darkness and the only window that is survivable to jump from is in the bathroom where I am.



The most horrible experience of my life - I thought 'they' had got my dog.

What the heck are you doing there???
I was scared just reading your post!


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[Emz73]

I have not seen any Oscar apologist here.

I have no vested interest in the outcome of this case other than justice for Reeva. I don't know if that is going to happen. I hope that I am wrong.

The judge will not be using a Mirror article to render her decision, she will be using the evidence, her own prejudices, emotions and the advice of her two court experts (sorry I don't remember what they are called).

Roux by his short examination of Oscar has opened wider the door for appeal due to mental defect IMO.

Nobody said she would use the mirror article???? What a strange comment.

I found it interesting that he has a history of abusive behaviours.

 

[Carol70]

LisaL,

I've not read your blog before but I will (read it). I'm not following the case day-to-day so appreciate a good thoughtful recap.

Question for those who are supporters of OP: do you believe OP's rendition of what happened that night as he told it on the stand? Or, do you have some doubts?

I am neither an apologist or a supporter, I am a supporter of the factual evidence. I'm still on the fence and although there have been inconsistencies in OPs testimony, I believe they are minor. I cannot believe he would remember every minor detail from the night, and perhaps minor details stand out more than others to him, I don't know. He had pretty much kept the core of his story intact and I still believe it's plausible (haha maybe to many folks here frustration). Will have to see what happens with the rest of the witnesses.

That being said, I do firmly believe him that whatever the outcome, he deserves jail time and a stiff sentence at that. At the end of the day, he did commit a murder and a beautiful girl is dead.

 

[zwiebel]

Nightmare or real??

Nicht weiss - I don't know.

I came downstairs with a 'weapon' (it would have been a tool, I had so many in the house then) fixed the old fuse box in complete darkness, and the lights came back on.

I found the dog hiding under a bed. I never ever discovered what the crash and tinkle of glass was. It was very strange and very terrifying.

Probably a Waschbare.

ETA: A Waschbare: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Procyon_lotor_2.jpg

 

[TorisMom003]

Do they not have a "mute" button on their mics in court, for each side? I can clearly hear the defense side whispering a lot during Nels cross of OP. Seems they could at least write notes to one another instead of speaking out about whatever it is they feel the need to talk about. I'm surprised the judge has not admonished them for doing this.

MOO

 

[TipDog]

First do you have any answer as to why Reeva at 3:00 am chose not to turn on the only switch at the entrance of the passage to the bathroom that turned on all the lights in that area ie passage, bathroom, toilet and shower.She then went on to place her vanity bag on the bathtub, left her phone on the rug in front of the shower then entered the toilet with a broken light locked the door and took a pee in total darkness.OP testified that Reeva opened one sliding window in the bathroom, why would she undertake this meaningless exercise in total darkness?This is when OP came howling and screaming at the intruder to get out of his house.

If you have any logical explanation for her behavior, then we are in business.

I just had the strangest thought reading this - and forgive me if anyone else has already put this in this thread or on the forum.

What if Reeva had a really awful night with OP, was deflated that he hadn't even thought of her for VD, they had argued, etc. and got up to sneak to the bathroom to put her clothes on and get out of there without waking OP and getting into another argument?

She opened the bathroom window and threw her jeans out of them knowing that putting them on might make too much noise (yes, putting denim on skin is noisy in the dead of night.) Perhaps, she even did this before OP got up to play cha-cha with the fans. Maybe she purposely bunched the duvet up to make it appear as if she might be beneath it.

Then dipwit OP went commando and shot through the door knowing full well there was a person behind it but maybe, in some parallel universe, far, far away in a distant galaxy, he is somehow on some level telling a tiny bit of truth (he is a rather paranoid, twitchy type, and way too reckless with his gun).

I don't really believe anything I've written and please don't discredit me for it. I do whole-heartedly believe the opposite and that he killed her in a fit of rage.

But sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction and if something liked that happened, it would explain some of his inconsistencies. I mean, if they were arguing but he didn't mean to shoot her (per his version), he still would not even want to admit the arguing at all. See what I mean? He may feel he must lie about all of it in order to be found not guilty. When, in fact (per his version), the devil really is in the details.

So, just musings is all. But what if that poor girl really did get shot being mistaken as a burglar by a very disturbed man while trying to sneak out in the middle of the night.

- didn't turn lights on
- didn't immediately yell out to him or try to tell him where she was
- jeans thrown out window (presumably)
- didn't turn cell light on (possible she could have felt her way to the bathroom just as OP claimed he did)
- bag packed
- snack eaten
- no gift for her and she really didn't want to spend the night there anyway
- hot/muggy night with no AC - who's to say she couldn't sleep that night and was literally wide awake thinking of how she'd made a mistake with OP


Again, I don't believe this, but it did just pop into my head. (And to be very, very clear - this is not in any way blaming Reeva. She did nothing at any point to deserve the horrible fate she suffered.)

 

[soozieqtips]

Do they not have a "mute" button on their mics in court, for each side? I can clearly hear the defense side whispering a lot during Nels cross of OP. Seems they could at least write notes to one another instead of speaking out about whatever it is they feel the need to talk about. I'm surprised the judge has not admonished them for doing this.

MOO

Haha. I heard whispering too the other day when I was wearing headphones. Something about Page 347!

 

[kaos]

From Andrew Harding of the BBC:

It has been exhausting just to watch Oscar Pistorius - doubled up on the ropes for hour after hour, heavy arms trying to fend off another clinical combination of lethal jabs and low blows from prosecutor Gerrie Nel.

As the athlete finally slinks wearily back across the court from the witness stand to the dock, he must know that the last five days have done him few favours in this trial.

He has been forgetful, evasive, agitated, uncertain, argumentative, and defiantly - some would say deliberately - ambiguous about some of the key issues at the heart of this murder trial.

However well his forensic experts proceed to shore up his testimony in the coming days, his credibility has been damaged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27030307

The attorney DJ on Oscar Radio also said the way he was answering questions i.e. as if he was an attorney himself and then answering questions with questions would not go down well with the judge and she will see it as evading them.

 

[dodie20]

Just yesterday, the BBC and the Telegraph suggested there was at least another couple of full days to go of Nel questioning OP on the stand. Then today, quite suddenly, he ended his cross without going through some of the finer details I would have expected him to. For example, the trip upstairs, the missing phone (who took it and why??), the toilet door slamming (why didn't he suggest to OP that Reeva must have been upset when she slammed the door?). He was much more subdued (Nel) than the last few days. Hmmmm. I'm not a lawyer so I realise he did whatever he thought he had to do. But I have to admit I was surprised at the sudden end.

It was surprising, but maybe he's like some of us and saw that OP was literally withering away in front of him. I've been nervous that if they kept up this pace, OP would drop dead on the stand. Idk about the judge, but there was enough evidence to convince me, and more cross examination wouldn't change my mind one way or the other. A very thorough job. In other words, I think Nel has heart, and showed OP the human compassion that OP didn't show Reeva Steenkamp. moo

 

[DebinGA]

Oh no, I wasn't suggesting OP demonstrated unselfish love for Reeva - or even any love at all. I think she did for him though. The few texts we saw, she was very supportive and caring. That's love, to me.

I think she may have thought she could 'save' him.

Totally agree. At 29, RS was very young to me, but maybe she heard the big "30" fast approaching and longed to settle down with her Mr. Right. IIRC she had at least two long-term relationships (4-5 yrs.) which ended amicably, but no mention she'd been engaged to either one. No idea why she stayed so long each time, but she did. She might have given OP way more chances to improve than she would have at 18.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I've had the feeling she planned on escaping out that window. Oscar screaming at her...she ran in there and locked the door, because she was afraid.,,opened the window ...further infuriating Oscar and tossed her jeans out ahead of her.
He shot her before she could escape.


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[patCee]

From Andrew Harding of the BBC:

It has been exhausting just to watch Oscar Pistorius - doubled up on the ropes for hour after hour, heavy arms trying to fend off another clinical combination of lethal jabs and low blows from prosecutor Gerrie Nel.

As the athlete finally slinks wearily back across the court from the witness stand to the dock, he must know that the last five days have done him few favours in this trial.

He has been forgetful, evasive, agitated, uncertain, argumentative, and defiantly - some would say deliberately - ambiguous about some of the key issues at the heart of this murder trial.

However well his forensic experts proceed to shore up his testimony in the coming days, his credibility has been damaged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27030307

The article says the sound test was of the cricket bat and a shot. I thought they were both of the cricket bat at 2 separate distances.. Anyone know which is true? The 2nd one to me, from 180 metres was duller sounding, i.e. a bat.

The court also heard sound recordings Mr Dixon had made - of a cricket bat striking a door similar to that in Mr Pistorius' toilet, and another of gunshots fired through same door.

I'll try and find the place in the video.

 

[fox1lady]

I do wish Aimee would stop continually muttering prayers under her breath ..

The defence team have primed them to do this... remind everyone that they are a God fearing Christian family

 

[zwiebel]

What the heck are you doing there???
I was scared just reading your post!


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No idea. Ask my husband. Germany is quite nice though, especially for dogs and children....

I did come out to 'save' my ungrateful dog though, which I thought was quite brave of me. I'm so tiny, I counted on any intruders not thinking of looking 'down there' to find me!

 

[Emz73]

I truly hope so. For me, this goes a lot further than what happened to a bright, beautiful woman on a continent I've never been to. It isn't about a handful of texts, a single card, or even getting a birthday wrong. Its about a pervasive attitude that someone, anyone, can berate, belittle, threaten or intimidate others and its often disregarded, minimised, justified, or accepted.

Abusive behaviours are extremely destructive to those in receipt. Someone, anyone, exhibiting them deserves a deeper level of scrutiny because quite often non-physical abuse leads to physical and sometimes fatal violence.

So its my hope, even if one doesn't believe Oscar could be abusive, that they're more aware of potential red flags that may one day save someone they love. A quick temper; overt disrespect of someone they believe more vulnerable; justification of behaviours they know hurt others or blaming them instead of accepting responsibility for their own actions; controlling, possessiveness, domineering, or intense jealousy; a history of physical violence - and threats to commit such violence are included; using a weapon to intimidate; reckless behaviour; opposition to authority; wanting to intensify a relationship quickly; seeking to isolate a victim, even if its just a psychological isolation - like making them feel guilty for spending time with friends; checking up on them; manipulation; intimidation and gaslighting are all warning signs of a potential abuser.

Reeva's passion was fighting violence against women. In South Africa, a woman is murdered by her intimate partner every 8 hours. It's fitting her legacy be what she so passionately fought against - violence, in any form; abuse, of any type, is never acceptable. Whether one is an international icon or a beggar on the corner.

All JMO, FWIW, and apologies for the length. Its a passion I share with Reeva.



Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Thank you for this
Its so sad, that many don't acknowledge DV has many forms...but then they used to send children to work houses and up chimneys. Obviously that is seen as child exploitation.
We'ill get there....one day.

 

[04009margaret]

The article says the sound test was of the cricket bat and a shot. I thought they were both of the cricket bat at 2 separate distances.. Anyone know which is true? The 2nd one to me, from 180 metres was duller sounding, i.e. a bat.



I'll try and find the place in the video.

Both were cricket bat

 

[TorisMom003]

The bathroom window and Reeva thinking about making her escape out of it, there is nothing under that window for her to land on except for the ground two stories below. No, Reeva wasn't planning on going out that bathroom window or the toilet room window. She was trapped in the toilet room while OP shot her to death.

MOO

 

[james83]

I would really love to know how a man with bad balance on his stumps managed to accidentally fire 4 shots in the dark in panic with one hand on a wall at a door he wasnt aiming it and despite this get the bullets in good proximity, such good proximity that they appear aimed and directed.
Just an amazing coincidence.