Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[shane13]

Let's see if this works. I hopefully have the video to start at when you can see her bent over. She is in the middle of the picture. There is a woman sitting on her right (as we are looking at them) that has on a white shirt, wearing glasses with dark brown/black hair. To the left of the woman wearing glasses in the white shirt, you can see a white "bump". That "bump" is Aimee bent over so that her head is not showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ry7H9rQ72yE#t=3168

I found it.
See Updates at my post.
Thank you for finding and telling us!

 

[Viper]

With all due respect this is not fact it is your own opinion. The only firm evidence was that one of the bullet holes was split when the bat was used. None of the witnesses as far as I remember said they heard a shot on its own and then screams and more shots but when the asked her to repeat timing on the shots she said it was only seconds,.....for him to shoot once and then hit the door with the bat and make that hole would have surely been impossible in 'seconds'??

Are you sure he said he saw Reeva through that small hole as I interpreted him to mean he saw it was her after removing the first panel which was at least a few inches wide? I am not 100% myself so will try and find the clip.:scared:

BIB. Yes, I am positive! From yesterday's testimony IIRC when OP began describing how he broke the door, at the start of his answer to Mr. Nel's question.

 

[steveml]

If we believe that the shooting was a moment of rage, then surely we have to discount the idea of OP ripping out a portion of the door, so he could see Reeva.

The action of not deciding to shoot Reeva when he had her clearly within his sights, but instead deciding to shoot through the door to make it look like an intruder, is a calculated action.

This doesn't correlate with the actions of someone losing their temper and shooting on the spur of the moment.

 

[Lyra500]

Thanks. Yes, that's right. The Defense will try and equate the two, I'm sure.

Well some on WS have been doing exactly that which has always rankled as i don't believe it is the same thing at all.

 

[TorisMom003]

If we believe that the shooting was a moment of rage, then surely we have to discount the idea of OP ripping out a portion of the door, so he could see Reeva.

The action of not deciding to shoot Reeva when he had her clearly within his sights, but instead deciding to shoot through the door to make it look like an intruder, is a calculated action.

This doesn't correlate with the actions of someone losing their temper and shooting on the spur of the moment.

And that has been the opinion of some, including myself, before now. That OP did not shoot Reeva in a blind rage, that he fully intended to kill her and get away with it by claiming the "intruder" nonsense.

MOO

 

[shane13]

OP and His Siblings

Oscar is very tight with his sibs.
He has detailed when a young child, he would sneak into Aimee's room and kiss or play with her toes--because he didn't have any.

She'd wake up wailing at being prevented from sleeping.

Then his brother Carl, who he says is/was the real wild one in the family, wrote that "I'd give my left nut for you..."

Of course, I may be the only one in the world continually harping on someone at the crime scene walking away with/being given by top cops:
1. unlicensed .38 ammo
2.the 5th phone

So maybe someone was risking his "left nut'?

This one runs deep.

 

[benn25]

Just watching todays proceedings. I must say i do love Nel and how he questions people, bamboozles them and then nails them coz they havent answered his question to the 'word'. Its just brilliant!
Especially when he says 'goood'. Classic.

 

[strydohj]

I know I counted more work days than that too, couldn't figure out 7 days . maybe they have more days of Easter holiday in SA

April 28 is public holiday and so is 1 May. 7 May this year is national elections and also public holiday. We are infested with holidays this time of year. But I miss all cause I have to go to Boston for work.

 

[Carol70]

You haven't heard my falsetto voice then.


...nope...honestly, you don't want to.

Oh lol...oh come on Steve, take one for the team!! Get the girlfriend to throw a disliked creepy crawly at you and record it?? And then let us hear??

 

[TipDog]

Sorry in advance mods, and I hope this is understood how I mean it, but this is really aggravating me to the point that I believe it needs to be noted.

Beginning @ 52:47 in the video I am putting below, the camera angle moves so that the gallery can be seen. Before and after this we have seen close up Reeva's family and friends sitting up, paying attention, without any dramatics on their parts even though they are hearing testimony that has to be unbelievably hard on them. Then we have OP's sister bent over completely where only a small part of her back is showing (white top next to the woman in the white top). Earlier OP's sister was doing the same position that OP has been. Hands covering face, head down, thumbs in and/or near ears. The theatrics that OP's sister is displaying is uncalled for and frankly should not be allowed in court. IMO if she can not control herself and behave in the manner in which one expects in a court of law then she should be asked to leave by the judge.

MOO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry7H9rQ72yE#aid=P9pynR-2SDw

BIB

Although I very much agree with you about the drama in court, I don't think the judge should ask her to leave.

We must all remember that Aimee had nothing to do with this and OP is her brother. She's hurting, as is the Pistorius family as they fear they are about to lose OP to prison.

And in case anyone here doesn't know (although, I'm betting you all do), SA prisons are infamous for what happens inside them. Going to prison in SA even for 5-10 years can and often does completely destroy the person, if he/she even survives the ordeal.

If you're interested, this is an article that speaks to the human rights issues in the prisons there, especially with respect to HIV and sexual violence: http://www.irinnews.org/report/96461/south-africa-dealing-with-sexual-abuse-in-prison

That is just one article, if you google, there are many, including stories from prisoners who've survived (and they are graphic). Even if OP is treated a little differently due to his disability, he won't be entirely protected, unless you really have want to have faith in an already horribly corrupt system over there.

I'm sure OP is aware of this, as is his family. This may very well be one of the biggest reasons he refuses to accept full blame for any of the charges against him. I really think he and his DT want him to walk with a slap on the wrist and spend no time in jail. And, I'm sure the DT will use his disability at time of sentencing and in future appeals to plead for a lesser sentence.

 

[shane13]

If we believe that the shooting was a moment of rage, then surely we have to discount the idea of OP ripping out a portion of the door, so he could see Reeva.

The action of not deciding to shoot Reeva when he had her clearly within his sights, but instead deciding to shoot through the door to make it look like an intruder, is a calculated action.

This doesn't correlate with the actions of someone losing their temper and shooting on the spur of the moment.

As you know, I've said many times here over the last month, [correction and elsewhere for a year now ] that OP was not in a state of rage. Rather he was in a state incorporating schadenfreude or sadism during the final killing scenario. Supported in part by the earwitness calling his fake help screams as "mockery." [Dr.Burger]

 

[Gbtaketwo]

If we believe that the shooting was a moment of rage, then surely we have to discount the idea of OP ripping out a portion of the door, so he could see Reeva.

The action of not deciding to shoot Reeva when he had her clearly within his sights, but instead deciding to shoot through the door to make it look like an intruder, is a calculated action.

This doesn't correlate with the actions of someone losing their temper and shooting on the spur of the moment.

It would indeed be a very calculated action but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I don't know what went on so believe there could be many scenario 's here .
I am sorry if I am prejudging here but from what I have heard so far the only version I don't believe is OP's
Has it been discredited beyond a reasonable doubt from a legal perspective I don't know as I don't have legal training so can only form my opinions on a mixture of gut feeling,evidence and common sense .
I have spoken about the snowball effect in past posts meaning that for his version to be true we have to believe so many things that goes beyond an average persons behaviour on that night before and after the shooting.
The start of his defence has not been as I expected in fact it has been quite a shambles making our lovely states Batman the super hero he has been affectionally named after, I will listen with close attention to the detail and rest of it with interest to see if I can have more belief . I certainly wouldn't want to hold my breath though

 

[TipDog]

If we believe that the shooting was a moment of rage, then surely we have to discount the idea of OP ripping out a portion of the door, so he could see Reeva.

The action of not deciding to shoot Reeva when he had her clearly within his sights, but instead deciding to shoot through the door to make it look like an intruder, is a calculated action.

This doesn't correlate with the actions of someone losing their temper and shooting on the spur of the moment.

BIB

I agree.

 

[BritsKate]

This is a real mystery to me. Either:



1. OP is truly a sociopath/psychopath (not proven in any way) and somehow snapped - which would make sense if he were completely enraged. Thus, help, help, help was him mocking her (after all, we can't just shrug off her WA message to him about him making fun of her accent, nor can we just believe OP's testimony that he only did that one time over a conversation of him buying himself a house.)



2. No way in the world is #1 a possibility, so the help, help, help was a post release of rage and realization of what he'd done. It might have been a moment of madness for him, actually.



But I don't buy it that the help, help, help was delivered in the way OP claims it was in his version. If his intent was to receive immediate help, he would have done the very thing he claims he whispered-said-in-a-soft-tone-screamed-shouted at Reeva and called the police.



But he didn't call for help in the one way he would have most logically received it. Therefore, him yelling off the balcony help, help, help was not delivered in the logical and normal way in which anyone trying to get help after shooting someone they love would have delivered it.

Well...why would he yell for help either out of regret or to actually receive help before firing his gun?
The mocking is deplorable but it's the only thing that makes sense to me in the totality of the evidence. Everything else I've mentioned leads me to conclude it had to have been mocking as it occurred before the gunshots - or Oscar waited 17 minutes to break down the door - or he was screaming like a woman before he fired.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[benn25]

so the cricket bat sound was not on the same night of the gunshot sound....and Mr Dixon wasnt there. Boom! Thats gotta hurt. Integrity has been blown apart.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

No it has not been proven, but I was under the impression that both sides agreed that he was on his stumps at time of shooting. I am still of the opinion that OP would not be prancing around on his stumps for a significant length of time especially during a prolonged argument with a woman. He and Reeva were not together long enough for him to feel completely comfortable and relaxed about his disability. I feel his lack of height in his natural state would be a big problem for him, especially where women are concerned. In fact I would go as far as to say this could be a cause of his jealousy and insecurities, regarding his girlfriends and other men.

Thanks
Why do you think Nel has it on the record about OP stating that he crouched down . I am at a loss to explain this if it wasn't related to the facts pertaining to OP's legs and overall height

 

[Britlaws]

Good evening everybody I just pulled 12 hours at work today. Blooming clients, don't they watch the Oscar Trial??

I am just watching the Geologists testimony this morning... forgive me, is it he that is relying on on the defence of automatism?! I am not qualified to really judge his credibility but his monotone voice hardly makes him compelling IMO. Just getting to Nel's cross examination n a tick... is it really bad? I saw the PT experts s******ing at one point in a snippet.

ETA, the software blocked my use of sn iggering... in the UK that is chuckling/hidden laughter.... dont mean to offend

 

[DebinGA]

A big part of OP's rage imo was due to Reeva refusing to come out of the cubicle, so OP trying to break the door down isn't surprising at all.

 

[Mr Ron]

I've only started properly following this trial since the beginning of Pistorius' testimony so this might have been covered, but one thing that (rightly or wrongly) is concerning me greatly is Reeva Steenkamp's phone.

Pistorius submitted that as he approached the corridor he screamed at Steenkamp to phone the police (as well as at the imagined intruder/s). He then appeared to testify that he spent a good deal of time approaching the bathroom yelling the same thing, then became quiet while surveying said bathroom - consolidating the relative safety of his position - before again screaming at the intruders.

Looking at this from Steenkamp's perspective: Steenkamp had her phone in the toilet (she did, right?) has suddenly realised there are intruders in the house and is being requested by an apparently retreating Pistorius to phone the police. Given these circumstances and the apparent length of time elapsing in Pistorius' version between him yelling at Reeva to phone the police and shooting through the door I would have imagined Reeva to have complied with his request.

My question then is; are there any records which show that such a call was attempted, and if not what reason should she have not to comply with Oscar's desperate requests?

 

[Viper]

But why on earth does he have damage to his legs in the first place?

Wow thank you for those pics.

So do you think there was some scuffle before the toilet room, and Reeva was trying to protect herself and hit his legs with the bat?

BIB. Take a look at the images of OPs bedroom doors. They were barged / broken through. Impossible I guess to conclusively say he did it that night, but I say he did. And after that struggle the last thing he wanted to see was Reeva safely behind yet another door, and it was a more difficult door to open because it opened outwards so it was braced by its frame.