Trial Discussion Thread #28 - 14.04.17, Day 25

[aa9511]

And bringing in the German carrot cake. It is sooooo nice. I could never bake anything so nice in a million years.

Omg, this is NOT good for my diet!! Makes me wanna run out and buy a big slice of cake, now!

 

[minor4th]

because it wouldn't help them. why? hmmnn... the one they hired and sent to the autopsy.

Because they didn't like what he was going to say, obviously LOL

 

[Viper]

You left out from your transcript that Nel was specifically referring to a "kick mark" and not a cricket bat mark

Here, courtesy of Val1 I guess we can just keep on this...

Quote:

Start at about 48:00 Session 1 for id of the two bat marks, one of which created the initial opening above the handle.
Session 1:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiKK3vA9XpQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiKK3vA9XpQ

Session 2:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGKRZIuBxLc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGKRZIuBxLc

Session 3 at 2:25-2:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXoq6...id=P-14bhKWdfY

the witness clearly states that:
"That specific crack yes, it was after the firing of the bullets took place."

Iow's, the two previously identifed marks in Session 1 could have come before the bullets.

I took that whole bit to mean that the panels having been broken out could only have come after the bullet holes, but the two initial bat strikes could have come before the bullet holes.

Side note to Val1 --> :loveyou:

 

[minor4th]

which state's witness are you talking about?

Vermuelen and Mangena

 

[IfIMay]

Because the didn't like what he was going to say, obviously LOL

finally you admit it. :seeya:

 

[TipDog]

I agree, I was having a bit of a joke.... not that this matter is funny

A little humor is welcomed, IMO. After all, the events are past tense. We didn't cause and can't change the outcome. We can only discuss it.

I got your meaning and agree.

 

[Britlaws]

This is so funny to me because Vermuelen was a bumbling and dishonest witness - and Dixon was actually Vermuelen's commander in the materials department, the position Vermuelen now holds. Yet, somehow a conclusion is made that "obviously" Vermuelen has studied a great deal more than Dixon and has more job experience. :waitasec:

Both witnesses testified about things that are not within their field of expertise. Vermuelen was actually caught lying about the "tests" he performed with the cricket bat and he specifically told Van Staden to withhold photos from album that were beneficial to the defense.

Yet, it's Dixon who is being ridiculed and mocked and Vermuelen is not doubted at all.

Fact is Vermuelen helped the defense a whole lot by confirming that the gunshots were before the cricket bat hitting the door and by lying so blatantly as to undermine the investigation.

I have to agree that Vermeulen was bumbling, not sure about dishonest but he didn't come across that well to me and didn't make a compelling argument for much at all. Dixon was much worse though IMO, straying a million miles from where he ought to have gone and trying to cover up false or misleading statements and very poor science and practice. They have published work together regarding environmental pollution etc. maybe they should have stuck to that area in their careers.

 

[Clutchbag]

Sorry, I was having a it of a joke, OP's insistence on the 'loving relationship' and all that and his saving the valentines card until last. I totally agree with you and the other case sentenced today shows that even having an enduring marriage with children and grandchildren, you will still get life if you shoot and kill your partner in a temper. Well, we knew that anyway.

No probs and tolly agree.

 

[sleuth-d-]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-girlfriend-left-traumatised-1771045

poor kid. locked in and helpless. it happened before. no wonder the screams were extreme this time.

is it probable that oscar knew about this? i think yes

if so, and the bat was before the shots, he is a very very cruel individual.

 

[aa9511]

Morning all from a bright and sunny Channel Islands .
8.29 here .

Omg lucky.

 

[Clutchbag]

The CSI Assessment Of The Pistorius Trial - YouTube

Some interesting titbits

 

[IfIMay]

I have to agree that Vermeulen was bumbling, not sure about dishonest but he didn't come across that well to me and didn't make a compelling argument for much at all. Dixon was much worse though IMO, straying a million miles from where he ought to have gone and trying to cover up false or misleading statements and very poor science and practice. They have published work together regarding environmental pollution etc. maybe they should have stuck to that area in their careers.

Problem is... PT had no choice with their witness. DT did. And they chose Dixon.

 

[Viper]

So I've been thinking

Even if we were to believe Oscar that he thought there was an intruder (which I don't).

What on earth did he think would happen when he fired 4 shots into a tiny toilet? I still can't see him getting out of this. Although I do think he knew it was Reeva.

I wouldn't and have ever locked a toilet door with just myself and husband in the room.

She did, and in the dark, if we are to believe the toilet light was not working at that particular moment??!! Doesn't make sense.... The poor girl must have been petrified...

Does anyone know if the Judge believes he thought it was an intruder and not Reeva would the verdict be the same ie premed murder or does this only pertain to Reeva?

Also does anyone know what penalty or jail time comes with the other charges with the gun and ammunition?

However the appearance of the psychologist during the trial makes me think that no matter what the sentence outcome, he will not spend an hour in jail due to his 'mental state'. I think he's got all his bases covered? That worries me.....

Nice post! BIB. Don't worry. A lot of murderers feel sorry for themselves and feel like they could never survive in prison, tons of them; but the judges have a job to do. And they all get over it in about 6-7 years anyway and then just call their jail cell and the prison "Home!"

 

[Clutchbag]

the psychologist is his AUNTIE

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...condone-serial-killers-I-understand-them.html

 

[Onlyamum]

Nice post! BIB. Don't worry. A lot of murderers feel sorry for themselves and feel like they could never survive in prison, tons of them; but the judges have a job to do. And they all get over it in about 6-7 years anyway and then just call their jail cell and the prison "Home!"

But I worry that he will be evaluated and be deemed not to be fit for prison

 

[Onlyamum]

the psychologist is his AUNTIE

Seriously??? Then there is hope!

 

[liesbeth]

Yes, but demonstrating that they sound similar doesn't resolve any dispute about which sounds were heard first. It doesn't make the defence's version more likely than the prosecution's, and vice versa.

All three pathologists (Saayman and Perumal whose report agreed with Saayman, as well as Botha) agreed that Reeva's wounds were very serious. She could not have lived very long after the shots. Saayman said she died after a few breaths.

According to Oscar, Dr. Stipp and Van der Nest (bloodspatter expert) Reeva died at (or very near) the bottom of the stairs. And Baba was in the garden and phoned Pistorius at 03:22 after which the Standers arrived and OP carried Reeva down the stairs.

So which scenario is believable? Shots at about 03:00 and Reeva dying sometime after 03:22? Or shots at about 03:17 and Reeva dying sometime after 03:22?

 

[minor4th]

BUT they didn't!!! Somebody put up the whole transcript. This is getting silly now.

No, they didn't put up the whole transcript. They put up selections to support their argument.

I agree it's getting silly, with all the contortions about one gunshot then cricket bat then the remaining three gunshots. That's not the state's case at all; it's a message board theory that is unsupported by any evidence or any witness testimony.

Vermuelen said the gunshots were "before the cricket bat hit the door" <---those were his exact words.

Mangena said that all 4 shots happened at the same time in quick succession. So that does away with the theory that there was one gunshot and then cricket bat hitting the door and then additional gunshots or whatever that theory is.

 

[steveml]

how about if you were raised from the street to the balcony. what do you think then? try it. you see differently from the different vantage point. Or.. maybe you don't want to because it would shake the foundation of your belief in Oscar and his "version".

I don't particularly believe in Oscar, I just don't believe he intentionally killed Reeva. I don't know the guy and have only ever seen him on TV a couple of times before this trial.

I don't particularly like him to tell you the truth.

My opinion is different to yours, and I'm comfortable with that.

Stick to your guns if you believe you're correct. Nothing wrong in that. It's exactly what I'm doing.

 

[Clutchbag]

Seriously??? Then there is hope!

But I worry that he will be evaluated and be deemed not to be fit for prison

I edited my post to include a media link, she has no say as family tied