Trial Discussion Thread #30

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More from jay-jay's link:
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Pistorius’ coach, Ampie Louw, believes that his obsession with guns is a normal “boy thing” and that his infamous temper quickly blows over. “Oscar is a verbal guy. He gets grumpy when it doesn’t go his way, then he will be verbal, but the next day he will normally say sorry,” he said.
“We went to Imola [in Italy] … Something irritated Oscar and he totally lost it. I got in the car with Oscar next to me … and Oscar touched my leg and said: ‘Sorry coach, I still love you.’ So that’s the type of person he is.”
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I think "Oscar is a verbal guy" means Oscar habitually screams at people in anger. .Sounds like Reeva was spot on about OP's "tantrums".
 
Has anyone seen this video? It is of OP and S. Taylor in Seychelles.

"After Oscar Pistorius' epic performance in both the Olympics and Paralympics Top Billing thought that there was no better treat than a wonderful holiday for him to relax and reflect back on his amazing achievements. Join us as we explore the idyllic setting of the Seychelles with Oscar and his beautiful friend Samantha Taylor in true Top Billing style."

Oscar Pistorius and girlfriend in Seychelles (FULL INSERT) - YouTube
 
In South African prisons do they allow prisoners to get an education? Since OP's career will more than likely be over (running professionally) after the trial, can he study something while in prison for him to get a jump start so to speak on a new career for when he is released? Since he has said he has an interest in architecture then maybe he can try that once he has served his prison time.

Maybe he can study behaviourial science and realise what a fool he was trying to lie his way on the stand haha.

But by the time he is out, he should be in his 60s I hope so good luck trying to do architecture!

He is good at architecture though as he was building a hole to fall into on the stand.
 
Have you even been reading my posts or just refuting them? That's EXACTLY what I've been saying. The head wound was lethal, incapacitating and she didn't breathe ! However that doesn't preclude some cardiac activity before she died. And Pof Saayman, according to the Alex Crawford text did not say that she died just after the head shots, he said she didn't breathe again. He very clearly would not commit to her dying at that specific time. He also said that her heart was pale which means that she bled out before she died.
I'm not going to discuss this further with you, we're at cross purposes here.

I have been reading more than just what was posted here at WS about whatever Alex Crawford may have reported. I have also been providing links with valuable information about the subject of this conversation. It seems to me that you may be unwilling to look at additional information. Surely you know of the critical structures located within the base of skull, and understand what Dr. Saayman was saying regarding Reeva having no blood in her airways?

Regarding the BIB1, for just how long do you suppose Reeva's heart continued to beat after the gunshot wound to her head, her breathing stopped, the severing of the artery in her arm, and the gunshot wound that fractured her pelvis?

Earlier you said that you can't explain why there was not massive pools of blood to support your theory, but you seem to not really care about that inconvenient fact. So BIB2, you say she bled out, died of exsanguination - where is the blood?
 
BBM

After reading up on the Judge, I don't think she will give a hoot about any political pressures. This is a woman that worries about the law first and foremost, then the victim next. The lies that OP has told on the stand will not go unnoticed by her either. I feel sure that OP and his defense were crushed when they learned that she would be the one to hear the case.

MOO

After reading the most recent posted article I agree that the judge seems to be above political persuasion. She seems to sentence and rule with the law as her barometer and she is critical and logical in her discernment and not influenced by wealth or prestige. Bravo! May the evidence prevail.
 
If OP "knew" Reeva was in the bed, he had many other options to protect both of them. Why didn't he call 911/security before grabbing his gun, instead of telling Reeva to? If he talked softly, why did OP assume she heard him, or could find her phone in the dark? Wouldn't she say I heard it too and stop him from leaving with the gun and the safety of fleeing unharmed? Why didn't he think there were more than 1 intruder that could harm him and leave Reeva in more danger? But was more concerned about a rickochet bullet(sp?) hitting him. He's a :liar:

BIB, certainly many more "reasonable" options imo.
 
I would like to say I find the mocking and guffawing about Oscar doing harm to his attorney or others given the horrific tragedy of Reeva’s death extremely distasteful.

I understand that most of you find me a bit repulsive as you believe I am making excuses for a killer and apparently no amount of explaining my position seems to bridge that communication gap. I can live with that. But I will give it one more go.

I am not defending Oscar's actions I am looking at them soberly through the lens of quantifiable evidence and by my rubric there is still reasonable doubt as to whether or not Oscar willfully with premeditation killed Reeva.
We all have different senses of humour, and your 'distasteful' is someone else's 'lighthearted joking'. There's bound to be some ribbing after that awful testimony by Dixon. Rather than post how extremely distasteful you feel it is, alert a moderator instead. They expect you to notify them to any issues rather than responding to the post/s.
 
This isn't anything to do with 'faulty reasoning' ... it's total fabrication and a (not very good) cover up for killing his girlfriend. How anyone can be taken in by all this, is an absolute mystery to me .. I can only assume they've not really followed the case that closely right from the start to the point we are now at.

Actually I haven't followed every single day or post or watch all the testimony. But I know when an accused story can be even plausible, OP's is not. If he ever thought Reeva was in bed and there were 1 or more intruders, he had too many other options 1st.
 
Spot on.
It's embarrassing that some people probably changed there opinion on this whole case on the basis of him crying and howling, dear oh dear, GULLIBLE.


I personally have seen no one that has changed their opinion on the basis of Oscar howling and crying, I think that is an erroneous assumption.
 
Actually I haven't followed every single day or post or watch all the testimony. But I know when an accused story can be even plausible, OP's is not. If he ever thought Reeva was in bed and there were 1 or more intruders, he had too many other options 1st.

You are missing out! The guy had like numerous versions of what actually happened that night, he said he reconstructed some facts, also said he will try not to lie on the stand (failed of course), blamed everyone including his own lawyers, even changed his self defense claim and his lawyers don't even know what it is anymore!
 
In South African prisons do they allow prisoners to get an education? Since OP's career will more than likely be over (running professionally) after the trial, can he study something while in prison for him to get a jump start so to speak on a new career for when he is released? Since he has said he has an interest in architecture then maybe he can try that once he has served his prison time.
Good question. In Italy they can study in prison (Knox and Sollecito) but not sure about SA. Mind you, I think OP's time will mostly be spent appealing against any sentence he might get. I can't see him accepting a moment in jail, never mind several years.
 
Perhaps my other post on this was missed so I am reposting it.



And no, my hubby is not disabled. He is also not a young, athletic man that has tons of money that was spent on security for our home. He does however have the brains to know how to keep himself and his family safe even when there is crime in our neighborhood.



MOO

Just to bounce off your post...

My husband being disabled probably does colour my opinion whether I wish it to or not. Having limited mobility isn't something you normally can pick and choose - it becomes ingrained in everything you do every single day. Its really only the last year my husband has lost almost all mobility, after a failed operation, but it's gotten to the point that his immobility is reflexive to both of us - e.g. he doesn't have to tell me he can't reach something as I know he needs it within a certain radius.

So for me its very contradictory on one hand that Oscar is unstable, has limited mobility, and vulnerable yet charges towards an intruder, doesn't make certain the able-bodied person escapes, and doesn't seek any other form of assistance. One can say what they will of my husband but he knows with his lack of mobility our best chance at surviving any catastrophe such as a burglar or fire would be to make certain one of the able-bodied people in our house got out - and it would be instinctive. It is instinctive because he can't escape not being mobile.

JMO and FWIW

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.
 
I personally have seen no one that has changed their opinion on the basis of Oscar howling and crying, I think that is an erroneous assumption.

Do we know all the same people?, i am not specifically referring to this website, although without naming anyone i know of one person on here who has.
 
Has anyone seen this video? It is of OP and S. Taylor in Seychelles.

"After Oscar Pistorius' epic performance in both the Olympics and Paralympics Top Billing thought that there was no better treat than a wonderful holiday for him to relax and reflect back on his amazing achievements. Join us as we explore the idyllic setting of the Seychelles with Oscar and his beautiful friend Samantha Taylor in true Top Billing style."

Oscar Pistorius and girlfriend in Seychelles (FULL INSERT) - YouTube

Private Pilot's Licence??? :eek:hdear:: "always see the best in people"

I'm speechless.
 
How interesting... have just read that the 2 assessors are able to overrule the judge's decision... didn't know that.
That's right. It's not completely down to the Judge. I think it's very unusual for Judges to be overruled by their assessors though. They're really there to assist her, and it would have to be something quite extraordinary for them to overrule her, in my opinion.
 
When it comes to severe disability, I think of Stephen Hawking. Even without his legs on, OP can do a million more things than Hawking. If I had to put OP in a disabled category, it would be under 'mildly' disabled, and that's with no legs. With legs, he's more able than me!
 
I personally have seen no one that has changed their opinion on the basis of Oscar howling and crying, I think that is an erroneous assumption.

ha. I had one bloke who often stands with me at the bow on the Watsons Bay Ferry who started to waver when he saw all that vomit and sooking going on. I soon put him right, though.
 
When it comes to severe disability, I think of Stephen Hawking. Even without his legs on, OP can do a million more things than Hawking. If I had to put OP in a disabled category, it would be under 'mildly' disabled, and that's with no legs. With legs, he's more able than me!

And yet he charges into the bathroom without his legs when he had opportunity to put them on and at the same time tries to claim he is scared and vulnerable without the legs. Pretty ridiculous eh?
 
Oscar Pistorius stepped down from the witness stand after enduring tough cross-examination from prosecutor Gerrie Nel. How did the athlete fare? We asked defence attorney Ulrich Roux

Did Nel manage to prove that Pistorius's version of events cannot be accepted?

Nel exposed numerous inconsistencies and improbabilities in Pistorius's version. It is, however, still early days in the defence case, as only three witnesses have testified and the defence have indicated that they may call a total of between 14 and 17 witnesses. Nel will continue attempting to poke holes in the defence case, attacking the authority of all expert witnesses called and placing doubt on the methods used upon which they base their opinions. Pistorius is dependent upon these witnesses to prove his version of events is reasonably and possibly true and only after the defence case is closed and the totality of evidence has been placed on record will one be able to evaluate whether they have managed to do this. The state needs to prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt, while Pistorius needs to prove that his version of events is reasonable and possibly true.

What do you think Nel could have done better during his cross-examination of Pistorius?

Nel certainly confirmed his reputation as one of the most formidable cross-examiners in the country. While he managed to unsettle him on numerous occasions, one did notice that his aggression at times had an adverse effect, in that it resulted in Pistorius becoming too emotional, starting to cry and thus not being able to answer questions.

While cross-examining, one wants your witness to answer whilst he is emotional and his chain of thought is clouded.

Other than that, one cannot find too much wrong in Nel's performance. He managed to secure numerous contradictions in Oscar's version, and also pushed Oscar to a point where he in fact changed his version from having acted in putative self-defence to not having acted with any intent whatsoever.

What did you make of defence advocate Barry Roux's brief re-examination?

The function of re-examination is to clear up inconsistencies which arose during your witness's cross-examination.

You cannot introduce new evidence during re-examination. In the event that any new evidence was introduced, Judge Masipa would not have allowed it and Nel would have objected.

If Roux put it to Pistorius during re-examination that he provided conflicting versions when he was cross-examined, it would have amounted to a concession on Pistorius's behalf, which would of course have a detrimental effect on his credibility. In light of this, Roux's re-examination was 100% correct. He cleared up any confusion which arose regarding Pistorius's version that he made a mistake, while also referring back to the Valentine's Day card which Reeva Steenkamp sent to him, confirming that they were in fact, as Pistorius testified, in a loving and caring relationship.

Do you think the defence is in trouble?

There certainly are a number of concerns at this stage for Pistorius's legal team. Nel has succeeded in creating doubt in all three defence witnesses's versions thus far.

Roger Dixon's expert testimony has made it difficult for any future expert witnesses who are going to be called, as you cannot have your own experts contradicting each other on technical aspects such as forensics, ballistics and post mortem evaluations.

That said, Roux is one of the country's top legal minds with vast experience and knowledge and has managed to handle similar situations in the past.

Rest assured that he will be reconsidering his strategy at this stage and will be presenting as strong a case as possible when the matter resumes.

What was your overall impression of Pistorius's time on the stand?

He did not fare well on the stand. He came across as being an evasive witness and gave long-winded, improbable answers to very direct questions.

Most detrimental, however, was the fact that his version changed on numerous occasions when tested by Nel. This makes it near impossible for the court to accept his version.

He was selective as to what he remembered and what he didn't. This does not bode well for his credibility as a witness and the court will make a negative inference as to his recollection of exactly what happened.

He also became agitated with Nel, losing his temper somewhat and falling into the traps which Nel set for him.

The fact that he blamed his legal representatives, the police, as well as his friends for lying all comes across in a negative light and, of course, indicated that he is not prepared to take responsibility for his actions.

His testimony on the three minor charges left much to be desired and I cannot see him escaping a conviction on any of these charges.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/04/21/inconsistent-pistorius-may-have-dug-a-hole-for-himself
 
Private Pilot's Licence??? :eek:hdear:: "always see the best in people"

I'm speechless.

During another interview OP had said that he was very afraid of heights and that was why he was going for his pilots license. To try and get over that fear. Didn't look to me like he was very afraid of heights at all in that helicopter. Both of my daughters, my brother and my mom are very afraid of heights. All 4 of them would have been in the middle seat, hanging on for dear life and begging for the ride to be over.

MOO
 
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