Trial Discussion Thread #30

[jay-jay]

From an article in Sports Illustrated:

"Oscar Pistorius has been spending time with people who were close to the girlfriend he shot and killed on Valentine's Day, the Olympian's family said Thursday in an indication that Pistorius is becoming more active while awaiting trial on a murder charge.

The family of Pistorius has stated that the runner was traumatized and in mourning over what he said was the mistaken shooting of girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, but relatives and associates have increasingly signaled that Pistorius is emerging from what a spokeswoman described as isolation.

"Over the past few weeks, Oscar has found comfort in spending time and sharing memories with many of those whom she loved, in surroundings where shared memories were created," the family said in a statement Thursday."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130411/oscar-pistorius-bail.ap/

I'm wondering who those friends of Reeva's are. Perhaps more like OP's friends that sortof knew Reeva but still support him. Because I can't see many, if any, of Reeva's true friends (like Gina) spending time with him.

MOO

Me neither ... all part of the PR exercise, I expect.

 

[Interested Bystander]

So he didn't have a vacation in Mozambique last December then?

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-s-uncle-wants-to-take-him-to-moz-1.1484657

.. also, just to post a couple of quotes from that article, which I find truly astonishing (well, no I don't find them astonishing, to be honest) ..



Amazing. Who does he think he is?

This family knows all the right people and pulls strings or leans on them. Nobody else would have been allowed bail after such a hideous murder. I am sure Shane has something to say about this.

 

[minor4th]

Unrelated but a few weeks ago, while out at Tapas with my family, my 83 yo, tall, still relatively trim mother had a "vasovagal" response to eating to much. Interestingly, this is a rare but well cited cause. A Vasovagal response is one where all the vessels are triggered to dilate and your blood pressure and flow every, including to the brain, markedly diminishes.

She collapsed and lost consciousness at the table. Her teeth were clenched and three of her physician daughters were unable to detect a peripheral pulse and only a very faint carotid pulse. She was making no respiratory excursions (moving of the chest) but a faint fog was detected holding a mirror to her nose. We had, of course called 911, immediately. My youngest sister was crying, calling an out of town sister screaming "Mommy's Dead."

Anyway, 3-5 minutes later, she resumed consciousness...pulse strong, breathing normally and just weak and diaphoretic from the episode.

After a long work up, there is nothing wrong with her, she has the heart and vessels of a 50 yo. but she really seemed acutely dead...but in reality her heart was still beating away.

OP, with his layperson's knowledge, reports Reeva still had signs of life when he got to her and even though he may have been unaware, unless she was injured bleed before she went to the bathroom, her heart had to have still been beating on the stairs.

As for post mortem ocular changes, they are far less conclusive when assessing time of death and are subject to some variables.Apologies for the long post...

O/T - interesting about your relative. That happened to me one time. I was cycling and hit a rough spot and took a fall, hitting my elbow. The pain was so intense for a brief time that I had a vasovagal response - my blood pressure shot way, way down and my pulse was thready and hard to find. My spouse, who is also a physician, was cycling with me and he remained cool as a cucumber as he seemed to know what was happening. I also became extremely diaphoretic and vaguely thought I was dying.

Ambulance took me to the hospital where they started potassium drip - could not find my pulse! Although I was aware of what was happening. Within a few minutes I was back to normal, just shaken up. Elbow was simply bruised - no big deal.

 

[jay-jay]

The only evidence I'm aware of, other than OP's words, shows the keys on the outside of the toilet room door and in the pics no blood is visible, seems a wee bit odd...

Yes, we only have OP's word for it that the keys were on the inside .. and we all know what OP's word means ..

 

[TipDog]

Do you understand though that it may be difficult for some (okay, me) to understand such a blind panic though? He didn't call security, he didn't use a panic button, he didn't wait for Reeva to respond or at least get a visual, he didn't fire a warning shot or wait for an intruder to be able to get out before he started firing - and that's where SA law draws the line at putative self-defence.

I'm sure we've all had heart-stopping moments of fear in our lives - when we've been faced with a similar scenario or worse and few of us, if any, reacted as he did. We base our opinions, often, off our own experiences. My then 7 year old daughter showed more presence of mind in calling 911 during the 'blind panic' of my mother dying. He showed more presence of mind when he thought there was an intruder in the past...what made that night any different than those he spent with Sam and a washing machine?

And I get that people act differently...but his own history makes it difficult to overlook he has a history of different responces to panic, fear, or apprehension. None of them ended with him firing his gun four times, much less killing someone.

MOO

I'm with you on this one. But, I don't see how his behavior, even in his version, indicates blind panic. Of course, I believe he's lying and that the blind panic was really blind rage. And in blind rage, he wouldn't be in fear of his life...at least not in a way that would support his version.

 

[minor4th]

It was funny that he said he'd accept his bail conditions, and then in the blink of an eye he wanted practically everything overturned because it wasn't 'fair'. Poor him! :violin:

It's really not uncommon for a defendant to request a modification of bail conditions after some time with no problems.

 

[Emz73]

Same here. I didn't know who either of them were.

Did non of you watch the greatest sporting event WE put on??

:great:

 

[JuneBug67]

BBM - Except that on the stand, OP said he didn't even remember speaking to Baba. Was it Roux that tried to persuade Baba that OP had said "I'm fine" and not "Everything's fine"? If OP now claims he can't remember speaking to Baba, then he can't know what he didn't say! And where did Roux pluck those words from in the first place? I'd go with Baba on this one, as he came across as sincere and credible. It was pointed out by CapeTownCrim that Baba wasn't giving evidence in his own language, and there could have been interpreting issues. But what was clear was that Baba heard OP say "Everything's fine".

The words came from Baba's initial statement that was read in court. The words were something like "he said he was okay". I should have said Roux's claim on behalf of Oscar...sorry.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cou...s-testimony-under-fire-1.1658742#.U1WPwSe9KSM

 

[TorisMom003]

Did non of you watch the greatest sporting event WE put on??

:great:

Apparently I did not lol

 

[Interested Bystander]

This was brought up in the Dateline show. According to that there is no reason to believe OP has a girlfriend, apparently he has been lying low at his uncles house. Whether that is true or not I don't know, you can't believe everything you see/hear in the media.

According to reporters she has attended the trial on some days.

 

[jay-jay]

I can't imagine his legal advisor's were happy to make that appeal, another case of Oscar getting his own way. IMO.

On the morning OP was arrested, the police said that they would be opposing bail in the most strongest terms (and obv by saying that, they were clearly highly suspicious of OP and his claim that he mistook Reeva for an intruder) -->> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmgHagenChA It's a pity that never actually happened, and he's been able to live this past year in the lap of luxury.

 

[minor4th]

BBM - Except that on the stand, OP said he didn't even remember speaking to Baba. Was it Roux that tried to persuade Baba that OP had said "I'm fine" and not "Everything's fine"? If OP now claims he can't remember speaking to Baba, then he can't know what he didn't say! And where did Roux pluck those words from in the first place? I'd go with Baba on this one, as he came across as sincere and credible. It was pointed out by CapeTownCrim that Baba wasn't giving evidence in his own language, and there could have been interpreting issues. But what was clear was that Baba heard OP say "Everything's fine".

It was from Baba's prior written police statement that said something like "I'm ok"

 

[weeeva]

Can't believe everything that comes out of OP's mouth either. He hasn't just been lying low at Uncle Arnold's house though this entire time he has been out on bail.

http://www.demotix.com/video/2213266/paralympian-oscar-pistorius-returns-training

Yes as I said, you can't believe everything you see/hear in the media.

 

[TorisMom003]

It's really not uncommon for a defendant to request a modification of bail conditions after some time with no problems.

So OP was granted bail on Feb 22, yes? Then on March 11 his lawyers request a bail appeal. That's "after some time with no problems"?

 

[james83]

I recall reading/hearing something where he professed an interest in politics. Not sure about SA rules regarding that... I guess it would depend on whether he beats the murder charge as to whether he would be allowed to run for office.

He's so deluded that when he goes to prison he will probably compare himelf to Mandela.

 

[soozieqtips]

It's really not uncommon for a defendant to request a modification of bail conditions after some time with no problems.

It was a hell of a modification and it wasn't after 'some' time. It was just after 4 weeks.

 

[minor4th]

Off Topic from the Quoted Post, Apologies...



Quick question for you, if and when you can spare a moment? How much do you think of what we're witnessing in SA is purely because of a magistrate only system - such as lack of opening statements (until Judge Masipa questioned Nel), the weaving of a 'version' or possibly motive, etc? I realise you're new to SA law too but it seems to me a lot that's being 'missed' is usually for the benefit of a jury? So many people were floored that Nel didn't have opening remarks ready but really there seems to be little reason for it. Motive too, I would argue, is usually desired by a jury, even when unnecessary to determine guilt, where the judge will be basing her decision primarily on the letter of the law.



Just curious...

It's hard to say but I think it comes across to the public as much different because of all the rules and strategies that are normally part of a jury trial. I think a lot is left to closing statements and argument.

Motive isn't required but without it premeditated murder does not make sense and has no context. So in a sense it is sort of necessary in a circumstantial case.

 

[TorisMom003]

Yes as I said, you can't believe everything you see/hear in the media.

So even though his own family has said that he has been out and about, not stuck in Uncle Arnold's home, because it was printed in an article we shouldn't believe it? Or the fact that there is video of OP out on the track running, clearly not Uncle Arnold's home again, is to be ignored as well? Well then, perhaps we shouldn't believe what we see in court either then since it is being televised thanks to the media world.

MOO

 

[james83]

:truce:

Turns out it wasn't an error in judgment though, because he didn't flee or make any attempt to avoid prosecution.

The fact that he was even thinking about competing was the error of judgement.

 

[soozieqtips]

So OP was granted bail on Feb 22, yes? Then on March 11 his lawyers request a bail appeal. That's "after some time with no problems"?

Posted after you without seeing your post. So it was just a couple of weeks later that he was whining about his bail conditions??? Not 'some' time at all. I think the 4-week time frame must have been 1) bail conditions set, 2) OP whining, then 3) bail conditions being modified. He'll have to learn a bit of patience if he ends up in :jail: