Trial Discussion Thread #30

[G.bng]

And bizarrely, Nel didn't want to ask him anything about it. Just accepted his version post-shooting.

Still cannot get past that despite CTC's assurances.

I must have got it wrong. Is Nel accepting all of OP's version "post shooting" or "post bats/door" ?

Whichever it is, albeit I would be a tad surprised if the acceptance were post shots, I personally don't find it bizarre of Nel to stop at that point because imo there is nothing post OP opening the toilet door that could further a murder or CH charge and verdict, and as the Judge is clearly getting impatient about the time the case is taking, to take it further without a defined need, purpose or goal would be imo seen as highly unprofessional by both the Bar and the judge.

 

[shane13]

JFK stuff snipped to focus my response.....



Agreed. Great post Shane.
The censoring of that part of the trial seemed overkill at the time, but in context to the rest of it since, it now looks very suspicious to me. It does not add up.

However to be balanced about this... if court reporters were there and heard the whole evidence and if there was something out of kilter wouldn't that have leaked out in the proceeding days and weeks?

When an act happens, there is nothing 'balanced' about it.

I can see why you snipped what I wrote about JFK assassination, it answers your seemingly naive ending. {No insult intended]

You need to find onine the quote from CIA Director Colby admitting that the entirety of the MSM in the US was under the control of the CIA.


And I've alrady made clear about reporters not tweeting on some things like Nel and Roux discussing the 16 days of disappearance of the 5th phone.

All that I have written on this including much in the last few hours proves how this case is controlled from on high and on certain matters like the 5th phone, thus the collusion-like cracks in a certain door--can be looked into. ©Shane13

 

[james83]

A GUARD of honour, a round of applause, hugs and kisses — it’s not the welcome you expect for a killer.

But that is exactly what Oscar Pistorius has received as he’s walked into Pretoria’s High Court to face murder charges.

The trial has been labelled by some as a soap opera, and ‘‘The Blade Runner’’ is at times feted just like you’d expect Brad Pitt might be at the Oscars.

But, in truth, South Africa’s own Oscar Show has a plot line so bizarre and at times far fetched that if it was a TV soap, there’s every chance you’d change channels because it was just too unbelievable.

An Olympic hero who triumphed against adversity, only to kill his model girlfriend on Valentine’s Day, the very day devoted to love — a day she was going to tell him for the first time that she did indeed love him.

Reeva Steenkamp had, of all things, written a ‘‘roses are red’’ poem in a card for the man she called “Baba”.

But he never opened it that night — instead, he opened fire.

<modsnip>


(BIB) Dear oh dear what an idiot.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ap-in-this-opera/story-fni0cwl5-1226891434954

 

[Paysee]

Between post 1001 and here, IMO, there have been statements made that seem to me to be winding up confirmation bias; Oscar wanted to tamper with witnesses, Oscar was given special treatment because of his celebrity, Oscar has a girlfriend because if he didn’t she would say that she wasn’t his girlfriend, Oscar called friends because he couldn’t lift Reeva, Oscar blatantly tried to show that he was still friends with Reeva’s friends, Oscar’s dated beautiful young women, there is hope that Oscar will not be able to appeal his case if he is convicted, Oscar went out shortly (2 weeks) after killing Reeva points toward his guilt, Oscar took acting classes to be a better witness.

Good Gravy.

Why do you think he took acting lessons at this point of time?

 

[soozieqtips]

james83 - that article is misleading. Reeva's family were warned in advance that the graphic photo was going to be shown, and Reeva's own mother said she wanted OP to see it, to confront it. As for Milady being a 'frail old black lady'... she's 66, hardly a geriatric. Have to wonder where these journalists get their facts... maybe at the same store OP bought his fairytale.

 

[shane13]

A GUARD of honour, a round of applause, hugs and kisses &#8212; it&#8217;s not the welcome you expect for a killer.

But that is exactly what Oscar Pistorius has received as he&#8217;s walked into Pretoria&#8217;s High Court to face murder charges.

The trial has been labelled by some as a soap opera, and &#8216;&#8216;The Blade Runner&#8217;&#8217; is at times feted just like you&#8217;d expect Brad Pitt might be at the Oscars.

But, in truth, South Africa&#8217;s own Oscar Show has a plot line so bizarre and at times far fetched that if it was a TV soap, there&#8217;s every chance you&#8217;d change channels because it was just too unbelievable.

An Olympic hero who triumphed against adversity, only to kill his model girlfriend on Valentine&#8217;s Day, the very day devoted to love &#8212; a day she was going to tell him for the first time that she did indeed love him.

Reeva Steenkamp had, of all things, written a &#8216;&#8216;roses are red&#8217;&#8217; poem in a card for the man she called &#8220;Baba&#8221;.

But he never opened it that night &#8212; instead, he opened fire.

<modsnip>

Tom Steinfort is a journalist with the Nine Network and is currently on assignment at the Oscar Pistorius trial in South Africa.


(BIB) Dear oh dear what an idiot.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ap-in-this-opera/story-fni0cwl5-1226891434954

Yeah MSM now bringing in race into the matter when it's obviously not relevant. White man, white lady crime.

 

[whiterum]

Yes he did! I cheered him on in his quest to be able to participate in the Olympics. I was thrilled when it was concluded that his blades did not give him an advantage and he was allowed to participate. Shortly after, he participated in the Paralympics and lost to the runner from Brazil. And what did he do???? Claimed the the blades that the runner had gave him an unfair advantage. Whaaaat???? Thankfully, it was decided that the blades that that runner used were proportional to his body and he did not have an advantage. That ended my admiration for OP---the sore loser.

Same here, big shock when he attempted to take his fellow Paralympian's glory away on national TV because he was raging and could not control his tongue. All because Oliviera had the absolute gall to pass him and snatch the gold from the not so great blade runner.

 

[james83]

Same here, big shock when he attempted to take his fellow Paralympian's glory away on national TV because he was raging and could not control his tongue. All because Oliviera had the absolute gall to pass him and snatch the gold from the not so great blade runner.

In case anyone want's to see it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50iIMl2S14

 

[shane13]

james83 - that article is misleading. Reeva's family were warned in advance that the graphic photo was going to be shown, and Reeva's own mother said she wanted OP to see it, to confront it. As for Milady being a 'frail old black lady'... she's 66, hardly a geriatric. Have to wonder where these journalists get their facts... maybe at the same store OP bought his fairytale.

And not so frail. When OP did his high pitched 'get the fvck outta my house," she skidaddled from her seat rather quickly, saying court was adjourned.

I believe I detected some fear at that moment.
Maybe a victim herself of crime or DV?

 

[jay-jay]

Then I don't understand why you said it was an error to grant him bail. Bail is not a punishment - it's meant to secure an accused's appearance at trial.

It's always an error to grant a murderer bail, they need to be kept away from other people.

 

[Emz73]

I've written here and more elsewhere for a year that he likely not only knew it was Reeva and not an intruder, but saw her...

I am not sure what "your theory" is. Or if you imply OP is a scapegoat?
When this first happened a Nigerian blogger iirc corrctly said if that BH affidavit came out in his country, the shooter and his attorney would both be taken straighaway to jail. [he first critiqued it.]

I do not also know if your first sentence implies you think he is innocent?

i think everything so far points to his highly probable guilt. And again I like the man and his accomplishments and even think I know the hiiden medical factors. (As the saying goes, there but for the grace...)

So here it is not putitng away an innocent white rich man.

I have told you all to find all you can on what reasons Pros gave for dropping charges against Carl P.
That tells you what would happen here if there was not so much light on this.

In all likelihood imo--depsite great probaliiltty beyond a reasonable doubt for guilt on PM charge, I believe the judge will rule against that, but due to all the light, will say guilty on CH charge--although she could use police bumbling--much of which was delberate IMO, to say she can't convict on thst either.

Tashas and .38 ammo I already said seems like a lock.

But I opined that OP will likely get bail during 5 years or more on appeals, and [NEW] some other judges will prob throw out conviction on technicality, police bumbling etc.

Oscar will serve at most very short jail time. JMO

I knew I'd sound confused in my post! I do believe he's guilty. I was just wondering whether even if was innocent would they find him guilty because of politics. Please nobody take offense to what I'm going to say, but my sis who's a lawyer (not that means anything, as we are witnessing) said they have been putting black people in high profile jobs lately even though some aren't qualified for the job. For political reasons. Won't there be an uproar if he doesn't go to jail?

I do hope your wrong :-( Everything the country has strived for.

 

[jay-jay]

I will put it to you that every brave man who has ever fought in a war has felt panic, fear, terror, and the wish to flee. But they don't do that, they don't run from the enemy, they face him and fight in spite of this.

That is what courage is--feeling scared to death but meeting the challenge anyway, a situation that would be very familiar to a top athlete.

Shooting your girlfriend dead from behind a closed door is not courageous .. it's utterly cowardly.

 

[TrueDetective]

I must have got it wrong. Is Nel accepting all of OP's version "post shooting" or "post bats/door" ?

Whichever it is, albeit I would be a tad surprised if the acceptance were post shots, I personally don't find it bizarre of Nel to stop at that point because imo there is nothing post OP opening the toilet door that could further a murder or CH charge and verdict, and as the Judge is clearly getting impatient about the time the case is taking, to take it further without a defined need, purpose or goal would be imo seen as highly unprofessional by both the Bar and the judge.

Hi G, talking about post bats/door.

Even still, considering the amount of time taken to analyse certain aspects and bearing in mind that Nel spent signifcant time with many PT witnesses discussing events post bats/door - I don't think it adds up that he wouldn't spend even more time in x-exam with OP to compare and constrast and drill down into some of the many unusual/suggestive aspects I've mentioned AND that he'd already put into evidence and discussed some of during the PT witness testimony.

Many commentators assumed all this foundation was done with the main purpose of later x-examining OP on all matters and the complete timeline and because of this; the x-exam woud have a number of days longer to go.
The general feeling when Nel wrapped it up so suddenly and with such little fanfare was one of real surprise and for me, shock. It did not add up to me.

If all events post bats/door were accepted as common cause with no reason to dispute the DT version then why even bother to include so much evidence and devote so much court time to go through it. It was and IS important and that is why I still cannot explain it and 'let it go'.

In regard to time constraints, if there has been any pressure to cut short x-examination of witnesses or now 'rush' proceedings, then not only does that cause an imbalance in the trial as a whole but it is not going to be the thorough and fair process it is supposed to be.
That is not going to be helpful down the line either, in terms of likely appeals.

On a final note, if "the judge is clearly getting impatient" then she should have been far stricter in insisting that they immediately make up any time lost in the many adjournments and time wasting to date.

The standards in this trial have been quite poor at times and although it may simply be strategic/tactical, I think Nel's curtailed x-examination of OP and the absence of detail post bats/door is a serious omission.

 

[jay-jay]

You have already made up your mind about him and not in a positive way.

I have yet to see the prosecution offer any evidence that he did what he is accused with doing.

I noticed in another post you say the prosecutor "intimated" that the earlier bangs were the bat. I never saw him intimate or state any such thing. I assume you used the word "intimate" because the prosecutor didn't state it outright. If you could direct me to where the prosecutor places the earlier bangs as bat strikes, I would be interested to see it.

.. just seems to me as though there is a lot of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and going 'la la la', a bit like what OP keeps doing really ..

 

[shane13]

I knew I'd sound confused in my post! I do believe he's guilty. I was just wondering whether even if was innocent would they find him guilty because of politics. Please nobody take offense to what I'm going to say, but my sis who's a lawyer (not that means anything, as we are witnessing) said they have been putting black people in high profile jobs lately even though some aren't qualified for the job. For political reasons. Won't there be an uproar if he doesn't go to jail?

I do hope your wrong :-( Everything the country has strived for.

All the results so far--the 2 hearings and his brother Carl's case indicate the oposite. Likely guilty yet everything has gone their way so far.

Ultimately though I am not sure logically if your Q makes sense. Because guilt or innocence is unknowable in an absolute sense. We will only have a judge's ruling. Which I am sure appeals judges will go over with a fine tooth comb in the coming years.

And what the majority of the people may want has little to do with what ends up happening to our species. I like your inferences.

 

[bessie]

MOD NOTE: It's considered acceptable to snip a quoted post before adding a response. But when we do, as a matter of courtesy, and to avoid confusion, it's customary to note the quoted post as "snipped". "Respectfully snipped by me"; "respectfully snipped for focus"; or simply "[rsbm]", all suffice for this purpose. The same applies when we add emphasis to a quoted post with bold, italic or underlined font.

Also, those who have not already done so should review the copyright rule.



:tyou:

 

[Cherwell]

Thank you!

As was the case with <modsnip>, van der Nest (can we just call him Dexter?) has drawn some wrong conclusions. Even though he was ordered to attend the autopsy by his superior, in my estimation that was a first for him and he did not interact by asking pertinent questions of Dr. Saymaan either during or after the autopsy. I say that because the autopsy report concluded that Reeva died nearly instantaneously. So for Dexter to say in his report that there were arterial spurts some 6-20 minutes after Reeva sustained all of those injuries, that simply goes against the findings of Dr. Saymaan.

I remember complaining about Batman and Dexter several weeks ago. Each made blunders that caused substantial confusion for people, especially if those folks did not know the entire record of evidence to be able to sort out the blunders. The only PT forensic witness that did not fall short was the ballistics expert, Magena. He was very sharp!

Finally, Dexter said that the small pool of blood by Reeva's right hip was from the severed artery of her right arm, not the gunshot wound to her hip. So again, expert opinion that supports Dr. Saymaan's opinion that Reeva died a clinical death in just a few seconds.

Please can we stick to calling people by their actual names. The witness's name is Ian van der Nest. Please use his correct name, or Nest if you wish to abbreviate. Otherwise it gets very confusing. I have no idea who Dexter is, and am mystified why you would want to introduce the name.

 

[jay-jay]

Funny, I see the absolute contrary.


(I was a former OP admirer, what was not to like -> Cute, boyish charm, overcoming adversity to become an Olympic Champion. I gave his story the benefit of the doubt but the evidence, witnesseses and fact that she was shot with remarkable accuracy through a door have convinced me otherwise).

Yes, same here.

I personally came to this case from the perspective of actually wanting OP's story to be true, simply for Reeva's sake and for her family and friend's sake .. because out of the two horrific scenarios, his version would be the 'best' of the two for them to have to come to terms with, and also Reeva would've been completely oblivious up until the point he shot her .. so that was the version I really did want to believe, not for OP's sake, but for Reeva and her family and friend's sake. But none of them believe it now, since the minute he got up on that stand and started lying through his teeth about every single incident right from the firing of the gun in Tashas, to the ammunition in his safe, to the killing of Reeva that night .. and I don't believe his story either, even though I dearly wanted it to be true .. and so did Reeva's family .. June Steenkamp even went so far as to say she was prepared to forgive him and one point, before the trial, but she has now retracted that statement having seen the way he has lied, and under oath too.

 

[jay-jay]

Please can we stick to calling people by their actual names. The witness's name is Ian van der Nest. Please use his correct name, or Nest if you wish to abbreviate. Otherwise it gets very confusing. I have no idea who Dexter is, and am mystified why you would want to introduce the name.

Yes, good idea, because I find the friendly use of the name 'Oscar' a bit jarring .. 'OP' or 'Pistorius' is a more appropriate way of referring to a killer, I find.

 

[shane13]

In case anyone want's to see it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50iIMl2S14

Well that was early Oscar-Speak.

Sort of apologizing yet not changng his allegations of cheating.

Early Oscar-Speak. Not yet perfected.

Note that the reporter said that Oscar's earlier race would have beat that time.

frm all I reaad and then wrote ,it appeard to me that if Oscar was allowed 2nd gen blades with sensors, he might well have become "the fastest man alive.,' He would Prob have had to clear the new blades with IAAS. The old finding by CAS was that on average he was still at a disadvantage as compared to abled runners.

Tragic all around. He might have gone on to even greater glory by what I am saying now. How the whole world would have cheered.

Most tragic of course for Reeva.