Trial Discussion Thread #32

[wb180]

That has nothing to do with the type of bullet, any bullet can do that. It does not alter the fact that there is nothing remotely unusual about the bullets OP used. Hollow point bullets are as common in the bullet world as Nike are to trainers. I prefer to base an argument on fact, not headlines.

The irony is that you brought up the sensational headlines by big bad Nel of "black talons" to make some point.

No one ever thought about the name but only the damage it caused.

 

[Trooper]

The state does not have the burden of proof to show OP had no fear. That would be impossible.

The state presented a prima facie case for murder with intent. OP has the burden of proof now to show that his shooting of an innocent victim was not murder.

this trial is way over the half way mark and yet this hard fact still has to be outlined, and underlined and emphasized.. astounding, really.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

The entire defence just reeks of desperation.

Trying to suggest a Dr. was lying because his curtains were closed 14 months later is simply ludicrous.

One of the South African legal guys Sky interviewed stated the DT are using their best witnesses first......

I would put money on the fact that the curtains were drawn because of the new houses that have been built on the plot between the stipp's and OP's house.
There is probably direct overlooking of their bedroom now . Previously it was not so much of an issue.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

My recollection is that he did. Reeva had stayed the night before and had been doing the washing that day. She had been out during the afternoon of the 13th. We saw her arriving back before him in the early evening of the 13th. She has to have known the code to let herself in and out. So many lies from OP. He is fairly obviously a compulsive liar.

Yes I would agree with that .
Although it is likely OP Wouldn't have set it in the morning because Reeva was still in the house I think .
Maybe Reeva just wouldn't bother to set it when she was just popping out to the shops .
From the GPRS signals she wasn't out for long .
It was strange that OP wouldn't confirm for sure whether or not Reeva knew how to set and work the alarm ,just that if she had the remote she could have .
I was surprised the assessor that questioned him didn't push a bit harder on this .

 

[whiterum]

you can call it the "Sweet Lollipop ' bullet, but this is the damage it can do...

http://you.co.za/news/warning-graphic-images-of-reevas-head-in-court/

Yes indeed, here she is the real victim. The photo which the vulnerable, whining, crying for himself, OP and his DT wanted no-one to see supposedly because of the dignity of RS.

What a load of crap, how on earth would this take away dignity from RS. No, they wanted to keep exactly what OP had done to this beautiful young woman under wraps for OP's benefit not Reeva's since he has been painting himself as the victim in all of this from day one.

 

[soozieqtips]

It was Reeva opening the window - she wouldn't have "heard" the intruder opening the window and alerted OP

From OP's point of view, she's in bed just a few feet away from him, remember? And he doesn't think it's the slightest bit odd that she must have also heard a window sliding open and hit the frame, but doesn't acknowledge this noise with him at all? Too ridiculous.

 

[whiterum]

so dixon was a strong point? Actually, i feel sorry for him. He would have been excited and nervous and picked out his best suit and everything.

LoLoLoL

 

[Nausicaa]

Parabellums are designed only to handle hollow point ammunition

Could you please explain slowly and carefully why you believe the Z88 handgun used by OP to kill Reeva is unable to fire the standard unjacketed or FMJ 9 x 19 mm bullets which are the same size and, apart from the nose, the same shape and readily available everywhere ?

While you are about it could you please explain slowly and carefully whether you believe that OP killed Reeva by squeezing the trigger four times or only once - and if the later whether you believe the DT agrees with you ?

 

[Emz73]

Unless he was taken up with the thrill of it all. I have sometimes wondered that, if his story is largely true, he may have been so intent on shooting his weapon at the alleged intruder that he abandoned all safety measures including confirming Reeva's location. Obviously he loved firing his gun and hitting a real person would have been the ultimate thrill for him (remember the watermelon comments) and no better opportunity would have presented itself then putting it down to self-defence....dolus directus in mho.

IF his story was true, I agree with this or he never actually believed there was an intruder, just thought there "might" be. But then went into some weird, aggressive, over the top reckless act just to shot at a door and look really tough in front of Reeva. In a sick way, to scare her.
Once he started, the thrill of it just got out of control. No regard for reevas fear, safety. Just a sick selfish game.

 

[kaos]

From OP's point of view, she's in bed just a few feet away from him, remember? And he doesn't think it's the slightest bit odd that she must have also heard a window sliding open and hit the frame, but doesn't acknowledge this noise with him at all? Too ridiculous.

His selective hearing is interesting.

He can hear Reeva speaking to him when he gets up from the bed.

He can hear a bathroom window sliding/slamming open from the balcony door in his bedroom.

He can state with absolute certainty that no woman screamed.

He can hear wood movement in the toilet.

He can hear ringing in his ears.

He can't hear Reeva rustle the duvet when she's getting up for her trip to the loo.

He can't hear Reeva fumble around to pick up her phone to take to the loo.

He can't hear any ladder movement.

He can't hear the jingle jangle of the keys in the toilet door.

He can't hear the noisy mechanism of the toilet door lock.

 

[Emz73]

OP's gun was tested, if I am not mistaken, and it takes 4 pulls of the trigger to fire 4 bullets. There was also a break in between the first shot and the second shot. That would be impossible with a gun that fired all 4 with one pull of the trigger.

So "silly hour" has changed the gun from a semi automatic to an automatic that can fire 4 shots in one. Desperate times.

 

[molly333]

Why didn't he look for Reeva anywhere else in the house?

The prosecution says: Why didn’t Oscar search the rest of the house? Check if Reeva had gone downstairs.

Pistorius says: He had already become fearful she was in the toilet cubicle. Why would he "waste time" searching the rest of the house?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-different-versions-dont-add-up-9263835.html


Molly says, why didn't the police look for a crime scene anywhere else in the house?

 

[kaos]

Why didn't he look for Reeva anywhere else in the house?

The prosecution says: Why didn’t Oscar search the rest of the house? Check if Reeva had gone downstairs.

Pistorius says: He had already become fearful she was in the toilet cubicle. Why would he "waste time" searching the rest of the house?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-different-versions-dont-add-up-9263835.html


Molly says, why didn't the police look for a crime scene anywhere else in the house?

Why would they look for another crime scene? He told police there was only him and Reeva in the house that night and that he shot her. Are you suggesting that there was indeed an intruder who broke in, shot Reeva and placed OP's gun on the bathroom floor to frame him?

 

[molly333]

Mrs. Stipp : And, then, it was moments after the shots I heard a lady screaming, terrified, terrified screaming...

The screaming at that stage just continued. It didn't stop during that period that we were walking out [to the bigger balcony]. I said to my husband it sounds to me as if there's a family murder, why else would a woman scream like that, because she really sounded terrified.

Pistorius trial: Witness heard Reeva's 'terrible screams' - YouTube

 

[molly333]

Why would they look for another crime scene? He told police there was only him and Reeva in the house that night and that he shot her. Are you suggesting that there was indeed an intruder who broke in, shot Reeva and placed OP's gun on the bathroom floor to frame him?

Why would they take Oscar's word for anything? He was standing over a dead body.

Don't you think it would be prudent for the police to thoroughly search the entire house? Why didn't they?

MOO

 

[james83]

Unless he was taken up with the thrill of it all. I have sometimes wondered that, if his story is largely true, he may have been so intent on shooting his weapon at the alleged intruder that he abandoned all safety measures including confirming Reeva's location. Obviously he loved firing his gun and hitting a real person would have been the ultimate thrill for him (remember the watermelon comments) and no better opportunity would have presented itself then putting it down to self-defence....dolus directus in mho.

The only other scenario that has ever crossed my mind is they were arguing, he tried to smash the door with the bat, got fed up with that and went to get his gun not with the intention of shooting her, but with the intention of trying to shoot the lock out, that strikes me as the kind of dumb thing he would do.

 

[kaos]

Why would they take Oscar's word for anything? He was standing over a dead body.

Don't you think it would be prudent for the police to thoroughly search the entire house? Why didn't they?

MOO

Perhaps it would have been prudent if Oscar hadn't already invited a whole party of people to contaminate the crime scene before the police even got there.

 

[Emz73]

Mrs. Stipp : And, then, it was moments after the shots I heard a lady screaming, terrified, terrified screaming...

The screaming at that stage just continued. It didn't stop during that period that we were walking out [to the bigger balcony]. I said to my husband it sounds to me as if there's a family murder, why else would a woman scream like that, because she really sounded terrified.

Pistorius trial: Witness heard Reeva's 'terrible screams' - YouTube

That's after the 3.00 bangs. Yes this proves the screaming women wasn't shot till 3.17. As WE ALL KNOW.

 

[Cherwell]

Unless he was taken up with the thrill of it all. I have sometimes wondered that, if his story is largely true, he may have been so intent on shooting his weapon at the alleged intruder that he abandoned all safety measures including confirming Reeva's location. Obviously he loved firing his gun and hitting a real person would have been the ultimate thrill for him (remember the watermelon comments) and no better opportunity would have presented itself then putting it down to self-defence....dolus directus in mho.

I think the story about him shooting the dog is consistent with this. It's unfortunate that he hit the dog; this can happen to anyone even if they are driving responsibly . It can be argued that shooting the dog was the kindest thing to do, if it was beyond veterinary help. But the way he seems to have gone about this, then driving off without a word to the owner, no apology or sympathetic words: that all suggests to me that he relished the opportunity to shoot dead a living creature.

 

[lithgow1]

Why would they take Oscar's word for anything? He was standing over a dead body.

Don't you think it would be prudent for the police to thoroughly search the entire house? Why didn't they?

MOO

Don't know if you saw it Molly but I posted something to you yesterday re what seemed confusion regarding the state having to prove that OP knew it was RS in the toilet for it to be a murder conviction. The gist of it was that OP can be found guilty and given 25 to life if the judge decides he acted unreasonably in a situation where he had no genuine fear that his life was in imminent danger.