Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[Val1]

I guess that depends on how you want a trial, and more specifically justice, to operate.

Do we want a society whereby people close to you, neighbours, family etc. can never give evidence because their views are considered worthless?

How many of us would want to ever be in a situation whereby we're accused of a crime that could incarcerate us for more years than necessary, yet people who could provide evidence were refused the chance to do so? Let's not forget, the witnesses standing for the DT are probably going to be hounded with hateful comments by many who have never met either Reeva or OP, and hadn't even heard of them until a few years ago. I think there's far more risk of vitriol for the defense witnesses than the prosecution witnesses in this trial. I can't speak for the public mood in SA though.

I get the impression that there weren't many people willing to be involved in this trial, and have to give enormous credit to those witnesses on both sides that have done so.

Of course not, but you do have to weigh the credibility of ALL the witnesses, not just the ones you agree with and being friends with the accused and going on and on unsolicited about how they feel the accused had acted like a lost destroyed man must also be weighed. I'm amazed by how much some witnesses seemed to be affected by OP's cries of grief but had nary a word to say about the dead, bloodied body of the woman laying in the middle of an entry way with her brains blown out.

 

[crasshopper]

For debate ...

I would submit that the bathroom window acted like a port in a loudspeaker in determining the direction the radiating sound travelled from the bathroom, toilet area. Except for this port, and the direction it faced, all other sound radiating from screams and bang-shots would be muffled and absorbed by the walls of the bathroom and house and be greatly subdued.

Also, if Reeva was in the toilet with the toilet door shut and if she was screaming and if Oscar was in the bathroom screaming then his screams should be louder than hers simply because he was in the bathroom with a large open window (speaker) and Reeva was in an enclosed smaller space (the toilet). Particularly if the toilet door was closed and the smaller toilet window was closed her screaming should have been much quieter than Oscars who was in the bathroom with the larger open window.

So, there is good reason that the Stipp's heard the bang-shots and screaming (the window projected the sound almost directly at them). As well with the neighbors farther away but still in the path of the radiating sound. The neighbors on the sides of Oscars house were behind the window and not in line with the outward radiating sound. One did hear sound from the bedroom deck (help help help) which faced that neighbor's house. The neighbor on the other side did not hear the "help help help," but heard Oscar crying (wailing) ...

:goodpost:

 

[lithgow1]

I don't know about all of you, but I am perfectly happy being biased as hell, small-minded, judgemental, cold-hearted, closed-minded, unfeeling and utterly unreasonable...and I even spent all weekend dusting my best torch and sharpening my old pitchfork. I'm ready! :biggrin:

Oooh BritsKate - you're a 'hater'. But I agree - the bit of sympathy I had for him at the start, when I thought he was likely guilty but found it difficult to see someone in anguish despite that, has long gone. So I guess I'm a 'hater' too.

And that's fair enough - I don't like Sarah Palin and thought Jodi Arias was guilty as hell and 'hater' seems to be the word to apply to anyone who thinks along those lines. Must say I hate being labelled that just because I think a certain politician is a grifter and a defendent or two is guilty of the crime with which they've been charged but so be it.

 

[Feynman]

This look from yesterday creeped me out!

Come on. Everyone looks creepy a few times a day, but not everyone has the MSM picking out the worst possible of hundreds of photos to send all around the world with a mouse-click.

 

[Val1]

With regard to the blog link, it just shows how easy it is to make so few things seem like so many.

Here it is without the fudge...

OP got up, brought the fans in, covered a blue light, heard a noise, didn't see that Reeva had left the room, got his gun and went to the bathroom.

You can mention turning around at five different angles, feeling around the bedroom, not seeing this, not seeing that etc. etc. At the end of the day it's over-elaborating a few actions to make them appear inconceivable.

I've been in a room in daylight and somebody's left the room without me even knowing it. I bet we all have. Maybe it was something I said tho?

Either OP should have checked to see if Reeva was in the bed and didn't, or it's all a complete lie and he stalked after Reeva because he wanted to kill her.

Whichever you choose to believe I can't see how it was elaborate. An intruder killing isn't elaborate, and a spur of the moment rage killing certainly isn't.

Umm, it was OP himself who made it so elaborate... don't shoot us for noticing.:twocents:

 

[Feynman]

Mrs. N heard one of the gunshots

Not a gunshot, according to OP's version.

 

[crasshopper]

I expect OP to receive quite a lengthy jail term. I think he'll probably be found guilty of 2 or 3 of the firearms charges. With regard to the murder charge, there's no doubt in my mind that what he did was reckless in the extreme. I don't accept that he fired four shots in an accidental or spontaneous fashion, I believe that he thought there was an intruder, and would be fully aware that the shots would be likely to kill.

That said, it's obvious he understands the charges, and was trying everything possible to ensure he didn't say the words that Nel wanted him to say. I'm not really into this method, as it seems a bit like entrapment. What should be important in this trial is the mindset of OP at the time. If it's believed he meets the criteria to convict him of premeditated murder, then fine, let's have that charge. If it's a lesser charge, then so be it. What I don't like to see is prosecution and accused engaged in a cat and mouse word game. Nel's thinking 'if I can get him to say these words I've got him' and OP's thinking 'I mustn't say these words otherwise I'll get the maximum sentence'. That shouldn't be how sentences are determined in my opinion.

To be fair, Roux has employed similar tactics. Moot court 101, imo.

(Moot court are the sessions US law students have as part of their training to prepare, practice and be evaluated on litigation techniques.)

Otherwise, nice post.

 

[aoibhinn]

Incredibly helpful, thank you for taking the time to label!
Seems perfectly reasonable that the Stipps heard things so clearly. The angle of OP's house, particularly the toilet/bathroom windows and main bedroom balcony resulted in the sound waves being practically directed straight towards their property.

You're welcome Also, taking Noisy Fan's helpful post into account further illustrates this. They are only a stones throw away from Ops house.

Eta : I think Charwell also labelled the site earlier in a photo. So kudos to him/her

 

[DebinGA]

Pistorius will have his own cell number soon, with any luck :jail:

Join me in preparing yourself for a loooooong wait:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 29

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I just hate the use of the term "hater"! I think I far prefer the term "disliker".

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Will Roux present an actual OP-screams-likes-a-woman test soon or was today's "impromptu" exhibition it?

I am thinking no. The closest they could get was a woman screaming like OP because OP himself can't scream like Reeva so smoke and mirrors it is.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Surely they should have got the male witnesses to show how OP screamed 'like a woman', not the female witnesses!

Precisely. What the DT should have done is have OP himself give the demonstration, with the ear witnesses present in court. That would have proved the matter once and for all.

 

[Val1]

And they have bolstered that contention with the claim that he was selling his house and moving to Jburg bECAUSE of his love for Reeva.

The truth is his house was on the market since 2011, and he had been looking for house there before he even met her. :doh:

Hopefully this will be something that Nel brings up if he's allowed to re-open.

 

[crasshopper]

Perhaps not, but I can see him grabbing his gun after some disagreement and deliberately walking down the passage to the toilet room and cowardly shooting someone to death when they're behind a closed door(possibly locked in there by him), on his stumps.

Kind of like when he showed up at the meeting with Mark Batchelor with his gun in holster...too cowboy for his own good.

 

[TorisMom003]

I just hate the use of the term "hater"! I think I far prefer the term "disliker".

Personally I don't mind being labeled with that word. Heck, I hate murderers. I'm ok with that. Especially ones like Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, Oscar Pistorius, Martin McNeil, Josh Powell, etc.

But then I also stand up and voice my opinions for those that have been wrongfully accused/convicted as well.

MOO

 

[Budgie]

According to OP, he went downstairs and opened the front door. His reason for this was that he could not carry Reeva and open the door at the same time and he was going to take her to the hospital.

And :welcome:

Thank you very much for the warm welcome.
I just went over the court footage and Mr Standard said they ( he and his daughter) went to the door which was slightly open, there was a light burning and his daughter was in front and pushed the door open.
I'm still wondering where Frank, the live-in housekeeper, was when all of this was going on. Still asleep maybe?

 

[crasshopper]

Join me in preparing yourself for a loooooong wait:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 29

Deb, if it can be done easily, how do you link a single post.

I tried to decipher by quoting your post but was unable to do so. Tnx in advance!

 

[TorisMom003]

Thank you very much for the warm welcome.
I just went over the court footage and Mr Standard said they ( he and his daughter) went to the door which was slightly open, there was a light burning and his daughter was in front and pushed the door open.
I'm still wondering where Frank, the live-in housekeeper, was when all of this was going on. Still asleep maybe?

You are very welcome. That is a good question about where Frank was. But apparently we won't find out from Frank himself since the State did not call him and it appears the Defense has no plans to call him either.

 

[Cherwell]

Join me in preparing yourself for a loooooong wait:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 29

Aha ..... BUT .....

What if he is found guilty on any or all the three gun charges and is given a custodial sentence for them?

 

[TorisMom003]

Deb, if it can be done easily, how do you link a single post.

I tried to decipher by quoting your post but was unable to do so. Tnx in advance!

Not Deb but I'll answer. lol

See the post number in the upper right? Click on it, then when the single post shows up, copy the address then paste it on your message.