Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[JudgeJudi]

Yeah I don't know about this one. The article said he said under his breath as he was walking by. So whatever he said, it was aimed at no one in particular. And it was to himself and she's the only one who heard it...

Gonna wait for more on this one...

Yeah right. :floorlaugh:

 

[TorisMom003]

The last thread someone was asking about chat. Chat is open 24/7. There are usually one or two people in there most of the day/night.

Link for info about chat:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Feynman]

Question for anyone who remembers: Did Oscar say he screamed help, help, help from the sliding door/balcony or did he yell that from the open bathroom window?

Bedroom balcony.

 

[Cherwell]

Aha ..... BUT .....

What if he is found guilty on any or all the three gun charges and is given a custodial sentence for them?

Excellent point, which sheds light on why Nel inluded the charges in this case.
It hadn't occurred to me that this was part of a 'multipronged' strategy to avoid an OJ ;-)

I was really thinking about the possibility of him getting bail pending an appeal, which Cape Town Crim thought likely. (That is assuming he is convicted on the murder charge)

But if he goes down fair and square on the gun charges, he goes inside, surely?

:jail::jail::jail:

 

[wb180]

Yeah I don't know about this one. The article said he said under his breath as he was walking by. So whatever he said, it was aimed at no one in particular. And it was to himself and she's the only one who heard it...

Gonna wait for more on this one...

OP was whispering (no, sorry, maybe even in a low tone) in a woman's/man's voice - "how do you [OP] sleep at night" to HIMSELF...ok...

:truce:

 

[toevlugsoord]

Hello,

I haven't caught up in the forum yet, so hopefully this isn't a repeat.

I'm wondering what a few things mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVh9WQES2qI

1) Skip to: 1:17:07
Judge Masipa seemingly shaking her head while listening to Mrs. N and taking notes. Is she not thinking the interpreter is doing a good job? Is she in disbelief in what she's hearing? This is when she is doing the sound OP did. She then looks at Roux like she expects him to say or do something? Almost as if she will interrupt him in a second??

2) Skip to 1:17:30
June and Reeva family/friends appearing to find something funny or weird? Are they laughing at what OP must have sounded like...or thinking Mrs. N is lying??

Thanks in advance.

 

[TorisMom003]

Shane13,
The last thread we were talking about Ms. Stander saying that she was the one that told OP to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on the way. I said that I thought I remembered OP saying in his testimony that MR. Stander was the one that told him that.

So I went and listened to OP's testimony last night and today and found the following:

Wed., April 9th Session 1
@ 11:00

"When I got to the bottom of the flight of stairs either Mr. Stander or Carice Stander told me to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on it's way. Before I put her down I said to them that I, that we needed to get her to the hospital, we need to get to the hospital. They said, just, just put her down, ambulance is on it's way........"

So it appears I was half correct. OP said that one of them told him to put her down.

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Wednesday 9 April 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

 

[ColonelMustard]

That makes no sense to me at all. Why would OP have hard feelings towards a close friend of Reeva's? She isn't even testifying against him. This guy must hate all women except, or perhaps more likely, including his mother. Apologies to Mrs. Pistorius, but WTF!?

Whether conscious or unconscious, OP may never have forgiven his mother for "leaving" him. The feeling of loss of control can often expresses itself in anger or rage, especially in men. It happens all the time, whether the parent who dies is the mother or the father.

And with what authority do I speak? While Colonel Mustard is my name, grief therapy is my game (at least in part!).

And for anyone who isn't aware of it yet, control is an illusion.

 

[katydid23]

Shane13,
The last thread we were talking about Ms. Stander saying that she was the one that told OP to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on the way. I said that I thought I remembered OP saying in his testimony that MR. Stander was the one that told him that.

So I went and listened to OP's testimony last night and today and found the following:

Wed., April 9th Session 1
@ 11:00

"When I got to the bottom of the flight of stairs either Mr. Stander or Carice Stander told me to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on it's way. Before I put her down I said to them that I, that we needed to get her to the hospital, we need to get to the hospital. They said, just, just put her down, ambulance is on it's way........"

So it appears I was half correct. OP said that one of them told him to put her down.

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Wednesday 9 April 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

OK, this bolded part confuses me a bit. They told OP, immediately upon 1st seeing him, that the ambulance was on it's way? :waitasec:

I thought that they called it in when Dr Stipp arrived, as it took the 3 of them to get it all sorted out. Wasn't the testimony that Stipp asked if the ambulance was coming, and then he helped Stander make the proper call?

I have to go back and look at that part again now.

 

[ColonelMustard]

.. to me, it doesn't even matter what he said/mumbled .. he shouldn't even be getting near enough to the victims friends/family to even be able to invade their space let alone say something to them. If he actually went anywhere that close to her, then in my book, that is also intimidation .. and if it has been independently witnessed what he said, then that just adds to that. What the heck is an accused murderer doing just going out of the courtroom with everyone else?

I don't know how things work in SA but in the US, in principle at least, people are innocent until proved guilty. He hasn't been convicted, yet.

 

[TorisMom003]

Hello,

I haven't caught up in the forum yet, so hopefully this isn't a repeat.

I'm wondering what a few things mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVh9WQES2qI

1) Skip to: 1:17:07
Judge Masipa seemingly shaking her head while listening to Mrs. N and taking notes. Is she not thinking the interpreter is doing a good job? Is she in disbelief in what she's hearing? This is when she is doing the sound OP did. She then looks at Roux like she expects him to say or do something? Almost as if she will interrupt him in a second??

2) Skip to 1:17:30
June and Reeva family/friends appearing to find something funny or weird? Are they laughing at what OP must have sounded like...or thinking Mrs. N is lying??

Thanks in advance.

Concerning the 1:17:07 part:
I believe that the judge may have been shaking her head about Roux and his question to the witness before the yell or scream or whatever you want to call it.

@ 1:16:52
Roux asks "Is it possible that you can make a sound that would resemble it?"

The witness then does the yell thing.

Now, Roux had "put it to" State witnesses during cross that he had proof that OP did in fact scream like a woman. Roux had made it sound like this proof would be provided in the defense's CIC. If THAT example was his proof, then I can see why the judge would be shaking her head at it.

Concerning the 1:17:30 part:
I believe that the family/friends of Reeva were taken aback some by the display they just witnessed. Perhaps an uncomfortable laugh because of it. The friends/family of Reeva have been very good at controlling their emotions so far during this trial. I just believe that this caught them off guard.

MOO

 

[Feynman]

Unless of course it is all a lie and he knew exactly who was in the toilet room. Which, by the way, is what he is on trial for. OP also has lied on the stand about numerous things, so why should he be given the benefit of the doubt that anything he says is the truth?

Having someone tell others that they should "check their it makes no sense thinking" is really not the best way to get people to stop and think about the rest of a post, IMO.

MOO

So many posters here have offered "it defies common sense ..." explanations for their points of view. Anyone who's done any hard science is wary of that kind of thing. It's not real sleuthing. I hate to do this, but here I go: Einstein once said "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." And that is pretty much true. Compare what we heard today from witnesses who live next door to OP and who seem to have heard little compared with witnesses who live nearly 3 football fields away who claim they heard lots more. That makes no sense!

 

[TorisMom003]

OK, this bolded part confuses me a bit. They told OP, immediately upon 1st seeing him, that the ambulance was on it's way? :waitasec:

I thought that they called it in when Dr Stipp arrived, as it took the 3 of them to get it all sorted out. Wasn't the testimony that Stipp asked if the ambulance was coming, and then he helped Stander make the proper call?

I have to go back and look at that part again now.

No need to go back and look again, you are correct. That is something else that I brought up in the last thread (I think it was). It made no sense since OP was told to bring Reeva to the hospital and neither Standers had called for an ambulance.

 

[PPKik]

Shane13,
The last thread we were talking about Ms. Stander saying that she was the one that told OP to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on the way. I said that I thought I remembered OP saying in his testimony that MR. Stander was the one that told him that.

So I went and listened to OP's testimony last night and today and found the following:

Wed., April 9th Session 1
@ 11:00

"When I got to the bottom of the flight of stairs either Mr. Stander or Carice Stander told me to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on it's way. Before I put her down I said to them that I, that we needed to get her to the hospital, we need to get to the hospital. They said, just, just put her down, ambulance is on it's way........"

So it appears I was half correct. OP said that one of them told him to put her down.

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Wednesday 9 April 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

But Mr. Stander hadn't called an ambulance yet, or had he?

Didn't Dr. Stipp call when he got to OP's, and didn't Stander also call with help from Dr. Stipp? How many calls do you think were made for this one ambulance?

 

[ColonelMustard]

Pistorius continues to reveal his true nature.

Will his testimony in his own defense be taught in law schools in the future as a "worst case" example of what can go wrong? It ranks right up there. I am trying to think of any that match it.

Only if Nel is the Prosecutor! Ha!

['I think the Judge wants this case to be finished. She made a comment today about having other things she could be doing. Sort of as if she has "moved on" so to speak. Perhaps subconsciously, she's made up her mind.

I believe she said there were others waiting to be tried / waiting for their trials.

 

[TorisMom003]

So many posters here have offered "it defies common sense ..." explanations for their points of view. Anyone who's done any hard science is wary of that kind of thing. It's not real sleuthing. I hate to do this, but here I go: Einstein once said "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." And that is pretty much true. Compare what we heard today from witnesses who live next door to OP and who seem to have heard little compared with witnesses who live nearly 3 football fields away who claim they heard lots more. That makes no sense!

It makes sense since their windows and doors were not open. They were also sleeping at the time and their houses are not in the same direction (read straight across from) of where the noises were coming from.

Common sense tells us that if a person who is missing some of their legs feels unsteady without their prosthetic legs on, they would put them on (especially when it really only takes a few seconds) before attempting to go and confront an "intruder" they believe in is in their home. Correct?

MOO

 

[Cymbaline]

Shane13,
The last thread we were talking about Ms. Stander saying that she was the one that told OP to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on the way. I said that I thought I remembered OP saying in his testimony that MR. Stander was the one that told him that.

So I went and listened to OP's testimony last night and today and found the following:

Wed., April 9th Session 1
@ 11:00

"When I got to the bottom of the flight of stairs either Mr. Stander or Carice Stander told me to put Reeva down, that the ambulance was on it's way. Before I put her down I said to them that I, that we needed to get her to the hospital, we need to get to the hospital. They said, just, just put her down, ambulance is on it's way........"

So it appears I was half correct. OP said that one of them told him to put her down.

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Wednesday 9 April 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

Her brain was exposed and her eyes were open.

Quick get her to the hospital because OP has called people to stage the crime scene and they should be arriving shortly.

That is why he called Stander first. Stander was the hospital driver.


JMO

 

[Magdalyn]

<modsnip>

Bib

Lol! :blowkiss:

I have a question, for you and/or for anyone else who has an answer:

I believe Nel asked the witnesses today had they been following the trial on TV and, I believe, they answered in the affirmative (correct me if I'm wrong!)

Isn't that a no-no? A witness who has not been on the stand yet watching other witnesses on the stand? Or is it not a no-no in SA?

 

[ColonelMustard]

This sounds like a 80s Julie Andrews movie plot! Oscar Osctoria! :drumroll:

ETA: Haha you beat me, Colonel Mustard!

Oscar Osctoria!! That's HILARIOUS!!! Cudos Magdalyn!!

 

[TorisMom003]

But Mr. Stander hadn't called an ambulance yet, or had he?

Didn't Dr. Stipp call when he got to OP's, and didn't Stander also call with help from Dr. Stipp? How many calls do you think were made for this one ambulance?

No Mr. Stander had not called for one yet. Apparently neither had Ms. Stander. Dr. Stipp did ask if one had been called, was told no.

I think that OP called Netcare, didn't tell the extent of her injuries, said he would drive her to hospital/was told to bring her to hospital, and knew that an ambulance was not coming because of HIS call.

MOO