Trial Discussion Thread #37 - 14.05.12 Day 30

[DebinGA]

One last little read - 'see' you all tomorrow.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...estimony-questioned-experts/story?id=23683612

From lithgow1's ABC News link:

"Everything that has happened [to Pistorius] since the shooting, having to testify, being arrested, listening to the evidence - all of this would have caused GAD. In fact, it would have been abnormal if Mr. Pistorius did not develop GAD as a result of everything he's been through," Viljoen said. "One cannot say unequivocally he was suffering from the condition at the time of the incident as he was not evaluated for it and was not receiving treatment for it."

 

[MsMarple]

Magdalyn, thank you for your patient and ongoing explanations. :loveyou:

Delusion has a specific definition in medicine/psychiatry and isn't just an opinion open to interpretation. We can argue over whether OP is delusional but without a common understanding of what a delusion is (or isn't), it's a waste of energy.

I keep hearing the sound of goalposts moving around off in the distance.... :facepalm:

 

[Viper]

We know that OP is a controlling person, not only of his environment but of people as well. It may well be him who's telling Roux what he wants to do. Advocates can only advise their clients, not tell them how to run their case. OP blames anyone and everyone for absolutely everything. I think we can now do the same and blame him for this most monumental of stuffups.

I don't know, this is a very complex criminal case. I'm not sure that Roux would yield to whatever OP says that he wants Roux to do. An attorney can withdraw from a legal proceeding if he is at odds with his client.

 

[Trooper]

Every one in South Africa has done and is doing the hard yards.. the handicapped, the Xhosa, the Tswana, the Cape Coloured, the Griquaa, the Bantu, the Bushmen, the Boers, the Communists ,the ANC ,the EFT , the Afrikaaner, the Jewish peoples, the Whites, the British, the rich, the poor, the women, the men, the boys and the girls, dogs and cats, .. on and on. Every and all categories.. Oscar's slight, and I do mean slight disability is hardly the thing of incapacity , .. that is, his cognitive incapacities are normal. Nothing unusual. Nothing mitigating about them at all. Its the common experience..

Freud made his psychiatric diagnoses and discoveries in Vienna, when Vienna was the most disturbed and volatile city in Europe at the time. ... Vosters call of Oscars 'hypervigilance ' is small beans , meaningless , and particularly irrelevant in South Africa today, as in Vienna , so in Pretoria.. considering that Vorster, and Oscar by extension , are slinging mud at the criminal propensities towards them of half the courtroom, including the judge , is surely a self defeating proposal.

 

[Budgie]

I was sleuthing around Google and YT to find out if Oscar has ever had a sports psychologist assist him at any point during his rise to fame.
As per usual...I got side tracked and found this interview with Oscar from pre 2012 Olympics.
I wonder if Nel has seen it as parts of it, in Oscars own words, certainly contradict the forensic psychiatrist view and testimony of his youth.
Apologies if you've seen it already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtJoJiSclzg

 

[Trooper]

I don't know, this is a very complex criminal case. I'm not sure that Roux would yield to whatever OP says that he wants Roux to do. An attorney can withdraw from a legal proceeding if he is at odds with his client.

It appears that Oscar is still able to give instructions to his barrister.. this is the definition of sane, in a court room. And obviously ,his barrister is taking those instructions.. as long as Roux takes 'em and Oscar gives 'em ,he is adjudged as sane by his legal team..

For how long that circumstance remains applicable though... that's the question..

 

[Trooper]

I can only think of one reason why all this testing and interviewing of defence witnesses, the incomprehensible delays and sudden spurts of investigatory exercises after the trial has begun is the result of a dry up of funding. I just cant think of any other reason. Roux is no fool, and is experienced in conducting cases of similar magnitude, or close to, so this tardiness to get out of the gate and get things done and dusted by the defence is almost inexplicable, .. ..

and not one witness for the defence of Oscar pre Feb 14th 2013.. not one.. how is this possible?

 

[04009margaret]

Roux can still use used diminished culpability in his closing argument, which will revolve around the "extreme situation" that Oscar thought he was in, Roux can state that Oscar's physical deformity and his anxiety disorder coupled together should be part of the judge's discernment process whilst she is coming to her decision.

As the good doctor said she is there to give the judge food for thought.


It is a very clever and proper introduction to the case and Nel is beside himself.

Yes it was a very clever move by Roux to have put on the record that his client is a danger to society.

 

[aoibhinn]

Yes it was a very clever move by Roux to have put on the record that his client is a danger to society.

Yup. Oooops. Roux's strategy backfired once again. Nel is getting great milage out of it. He's just made of awesome. :loveyou:

 

[wb180]

She seemed to be representing what OP told her as objective truth. At one point, Nel her talking about OPs fight (vs. flight) response. She said it was worse when someone is trapped and has no where to go. Nel said, he did have. She immediately came back in OP's defense and said, no he couldn't because his mobility on his stumps was so poor. It was like she bought his entire story/lie vs. here is what the accused has told me.

.

Yes, she wasn't even doing any analysis from her professional standpoint. Just someone Roux picked up who is willing to testify for OP. In fact, she sounds like some posters here. These posters who support OP's version should really get in contact with Roux.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I was sleuthing around Google and YT to find out if Oscar has ever had a sports psychologist assist him at any point during his rise to fame.
As per usual...I got side tracked and found this interview with Oscar from pre 2012 Olympics.
I wonder if Nel has seen it as parts of it, in Oscars own words, certainly contradict the forensic psychiatrist view and testimony of his youth.
Apologies if you've seen it already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtJoJiSclzg

thank you very much for that Budgie....I have been following the case very closely since day 1, and that's one video I missed

 

[Viper]

yes it was a very clever move by roux to have put on the record that his client is a danger to society.

lol!!!

 

[Budgie]

BIB - The application for a psych evaluation isn't because he may be suicidal, it's because the defense psychiatrist is claiming diminished responsibility because of an anxiety disorder!

Yes it was a very clever move by Roux to have put on the record that his client is a danger to society.

I dunno 04009margaret....I'm going to have to sit on the fence with what you've said...Teetering more towards it may backfire for Roux if OP is sectioned, spends time in a bouncy rubber room and comes out squeaky clean with no major mental health issues; and a single page observation that he has low level GAD as a result of loosing everything materialistically important to him since 14 Feb 2013.

 

[JudgeJudi]

What's an industrial psychologist? Did I hear right?

"Simply put, I/O Psychology studies human behavior in work settings. Like Clinical Psychology, I/O Psychology has both an “academic,” or research, mission and an “applied” or practice perspective. Some I/O psychologists conduct research to better understand behavior at work," WHAT!!!!!!

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...3/what-is-industrialorganizational-psychology

 

[TorisMom003]

I dunno 04009margaret....I'm going to have to sit on the fence with what you've said...Teetering more towards it may backfire for Roux if OP is sectioned, spends time in a bouncy rubber room and comes out squeaky clean with no major mental health issues; and a single page observation that he has low level GAD as a result of loosing everything materialistically important to him since 14 Feb 2013.

Budgie, I do believe that 04009Margaret was being sarcastic in her post. I don't believe that the original poster (Margaret) really thought that Roux putting Vorster on the stand was a good idea for OP's defense.

 

[Budgie]

Budgie, I do believe that 04009Margaret was being sarcastic in her post. I don't believe that the original poster (Margaret) really thought that Roux putting Vorster on the stand was a good idea for OP's defense.

Whoooooosh....the sound of sarcasm right over the top of my head.

I do declare......... I am :blushing: if this is the case.

 

[TorisMom003]

Was there not any provisions in OP's bail release that he is to not be around any firearms? I think I remember that it was said he could not have possession of any himself but doesn't Uncle Arnold own them? I certainly hope that Uncle Arnold's firearms are under lock and key with OP having no way of obtaining the key. I don't believe that he would harm himself, after all the only true person he loves is himself IMO, but I do believe that based on the way the trial is going that he would be angry enough to possibly hurt someone else.

MOO

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Firstly, Sir Issac Newton called. He wants his theory of physics back!
Magdalena, thank you for your explanations. I think they pass right over the heads of some.

Yes, yes, I am another who has worked in a locked ward. Not that they aren't all locked, because they are. Let's just say some are double and triple locked. You go in as a nice, innocent student nurse and you get assigned your patients for the week. The medical files are 4-5 inches thick. You are not going to have the time to read through the entire file, so the nurse going off shift before you gives a report. The report is short and factual. It tells you about the patient, his behaviors and his meds. After report is over you turn to your preceptor and ask, "Well, is anyone going to really tell me why this patient is on this locked unit?" And the answer is, "Because he killed both his mother and his father. And as soon as he is off this unit, he will be in jail."......... Okay. Now I know.

As far as delusions are concerned, whether it is DSM IV or DSM V - and oh, yes, it is the "bible" of psychiatry - perhaps unless you have been around delusional patients first hand for some period of time, one may have a bit of a problem differentiating between bizarre delusions and non-bizarre delusions.

Give us all a break, folks. There are plenty who post here who have had the experience, one way or another. And it is my belief that Dr. Vorster who testified had a darn good reason for stating that she thinks OP "could be dangerous" and that his GAD is "increasing".

IMO Gerrie Nels recognized what the woman is saying and THAT'S the reason he was kind of upset today. Roux is still playing chess games, IMO. He is out there. Not understanding at all what this forensic psychiatrist said in open court today.

Hopefully Uncle Arnold and Aunt Whatever sleep with one eye open tonight! Because I'll tell you what - there is no way I'd ever possibly spend one night under the same roof with Oscar Pistorius!

 

[DILLIGAF]

While Vorster was giving her testimony, in all the excitement, it didn't dawn on me that she had done her interviews.. I use the term loosely, THIS MAY.. not last May!!.. a week ago!.. this has well and truly floored me.. after Oscar was on the stand, after Botha, after Dixon, ... Yvette the social worker must have been roped in to fill in time for Vorster to make some sort of written report..

She must have been bought into this case because of the prosecution evidence and Oscars testifying disaster..

Agreed. With the parole officer, the psychiatrist and other DT witnesses conducting investigations, doing interviews and providing reports AFTER OP has testified, it appears that the DT is conducting its defence on the fly. Truly amazing to me.

 

[JudgeJudi]

the first thing that happens is his bail is revoked, starting from the instant that section 77 78 is signed.

I just can't resist this. Some of the lyrics to "They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa!", a 1966 novelty record by Jerry Samuels, recorded under the name Napoleon XIV.

Remember when you ran away
And I got on my knees and begged
You not to leave
Because I'd go berserk?
Well!
You left me anyhow and then
The days got worse and worse
And now you see I've gone
Completely out of my mind.

And

They're coming to take me away, Ha-ha
They're coming to take me away, Ho-ho
Hee-hee-haa-haa
To the funny farm
Where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see those
Nice young men in their clean white coats and
They're coming to take me away, ha-ha!

You thought it was a joke
and so you laughed, you laughed,
when I had said that losing you
would make me flip my lid.
Right?
You know you laughed
I heard you laugh
You laughed, you laughed
and laughed and then you left but
Now you know I'm utterly mad

And

They're coming to take me away, ha-ha,
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho,
hee hee, haa haa
To the happy home
With trees and flowers and chirping birds
And basket-weavers who sit and smile
And twiddle their thumbs and toes
And they're coming to take me away, ha-hahaha...