Trial Discussion Thread #38 - 14.05.13 Day 31

[Hatfield]

BBM

I'm fairly confident he couldn't simply ask nicely, hence the necessity of pursuing the application. Normally, such a request is made by the defence because it usually goes towards mitigation and most often before trial. This application is so unusual for so many reasons. However, important to remember the State (opposing attorney) is making the application, we're midtrial, and the accused has a bevy of constitutional rights the court will bend itself over backwards not to violate. Further, a whole host of appellate grounds they'll strive to limit.

So, I'm thinking this was the most ethically sound way legally to pursue something like this. Happy to be proven wrong if you can find a link - I looked myself but there were about 10 million pages just of Oscar and Nel.

Oh...and back to paragraph one - a few legal experts were pointing out how bizarre it was for the defence to fight this because normally, usually, it could often only work in their client's favor. That's very telling to me.

All JMO

What is it telling you?
I think you are right that it is a hint of something and I am not quite sure of what it means though.

 

[Greater Than]

IMO Vorster's testimony was added simply to Bolster OP's claim that the thought there was a dangerous intruder in the toilet, It's to assist the could in reaching a conclusion that OP's version is possibly true (in the main). The GAD testimony was not offered to excuse the act or get a reduced sentence - it was to explain how OP's mental state led him to believe there was an intruder in the bathroom.

...in a vain attempt to get the court to excuse it or to reduce sentence because if it.

 

[Estelle]

i didn't know he was whisked away by a family friend, i assumed the hospital trip at the time was under police authority. maybe this 'whisked away' business resulted in the report by holmes that vorster cited.

I would also like to know more about Dr Richard Holmes and when OP saw him. Why wasn't RH called as a witness? Maybe he is the next witness. Here is what I found out about him:

Dr. Richard Grenfell Holmes (born 8 December 1947) is a South African Psychologist and Paralympic athlete who competed at the 1972 Summer Paralympics.

Holmes competed in the Athletics at the 1972 Summer Paralympics in Heidelberg, West Germany, in the Men's Javelin, Shot Put and Discus 1A category, winning the bronze medal in Javelin 1A.

Holmes is the uncle of South African professional surfer Sean Holmes.

Richard G Holmes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DebinGA]

Hi Val....
No it's relating to what Oscar did when he went back to the bedroom.

He testified that he went up and over the bed ( without his prosthetics on) after the shooting searching for Reeva. He then searched the floor on the balcony side of the bed and using his left hand searched along the curtains, and with the gun in right hand used the bed to steady himself.

~rsbm to save space~
Too bad OP didn't claim in his first Reeva search that he threw the duvet off the bed and onto the floor, thinking Reeva might be hiding under it. And then fell down several times as being on his stumps caused him to repeatedly trip over the electrical stuff scattered on the bedside floor, then arms outstretched in the pitch black he ran smack into the fan he'd brought in earlier and repositioned it with one leg on the duvet, then ....

 

[seattlechiquita]

I feel like adding this to my signature:

“I would also be [emotional] if I called a witness and that witness opened the door for the referral of my client,” G. Nel, aka The Man. #burnnnnnn #ouchie

 

[jay-jay]

.. but then again, we don't actually know if she said that .. that's only what OP is telling us she said.

.. and I've just realised :facepalm: .. we don't even know if the bit about him helping her with his contracts is true .. again, only his word for it :scared:

 

[katydid23]

Are you saying that you know with certainty that "it's a fact that OP can at any time sack his defence team..."?

I am asking because I do not know SA court procedures, but do know that in the US a defendant usually can't just sack his/her attorney at the end of a trial if it doesn't look like he/she is getting a favorable verdict, or for any other capricious reason.

If defendants could, I imagine that would throw our judicial system even further into disarray, so I am curious to know if this is true in SA. If it is, OP should sack Roux asap!

Jodi Arias tried to sack her lead attorney at least twice that I know of, and the judge denied her that option. :denied: :denied: :judge: :denied:

 

[Fuskier]

This article provides some helpful information:
http://www.health24.com/Medical/Dep...ays-observation-in-a-mental-hospital-20140513

30 days observation in a mental hospital called for? What happens?

Generally what is done is that the person is taken compulsorily to a mental hospital or similar facility, where they will be placed “under observation”.

- a psychiatrist will assess them fairly frequently
- psychological and other medical tests and investigations may be done
- the observations of nurses and others will be taken into account.

A report will be prepared for the court on the accused’s mental state, the diagnosis and its implications, to help the court decide whether the person is fit to stand trial, whether they are likely to have been responsible for their actions, and otherwise take this into account during trial, verdict and sentencing.

Is 30 days observation normal?

There is absolutely nothing special or magical about the observation period being 30 days; it's simply a traditional and convenient time to allow the work of assessment to take place - the doctor has other duties as well - tests take time to perform and to get the results back, and so on, and it takes time to get a proper report written and typed.

 

[soozieqtips]

.. and I've just realised :facepalm: .. we don't even know if the bit about him helping her with his contracts is true .. again, only his word for it :scared:

We don't know anything for sure about that night other than Reeva was there, she ate something, then she was murdered.

 

[katydid23]

Sorry but no one knows what really happened that night. No one except the OP.

Or maybe Frank....

 

[sleuth-d-]

That was the day before OP's bail hearing and 4 days after he had been taken to the medical centre iirc.

just to clear up: the date of the report was 18/2/2014 [not 18/2/2013]

apologies for the mix up.

 

[Forensics]

The thing is with any anxiety disorder, the trigger for bringing on the flight or fight response can be an ordinary every day occurrence, not a life threatening situation. Someone close to me suffers from this disorder and the triggers included catching a cold, overcast skies, dusk etc. What would ensue would be a full blown panic attack, whereby my friend would want to flee somewhere, anywhere or ortherwise would pace up and down relentlessly, for hours at a time. When in the grip of these attacks, she would not be able to concentrate sufficiently to read, watch tv or even make conversation. Terrible to watch even, I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to be in the throws of an attck. I am sure Oscar would have presented with typical symptoms well ahead of that fateful night, the symptoms are not easy to mask, especially when the flight or fight response is triggered.

 

[DebinGA]

Can "flight" include deciding not to "fight", such as stifling the urge to yell at someone who irritates you? Would OP saying to Reeva of "the noise", "Did you hear that?" represent flight? Ditto taking 30 sec. to don his legs?

 

[DebinGA]

We don't know anything for sure about that night other than Reeva was there, she ate something, then she was murdered.

And there wasn't a Valentine's gift or card from OP to Reeva there.

 

[Val1]

just to clear up: the date of the report was 18/2/2014 [not 18/2/2013]

apologies for the mix up.

Oops sorry, just absorbed the year... so yet another psych eval done after the fact and likely using OP's original version as fact.

 

[Estelle]

I wonder if this Holmes report has any connection with this pic? Note the blonde sitting beside OP's sister in the clip above...
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Oscar+Pistorius/April+Holmes/International+Paralympic+Day+Trafalgar+Square/mtxqJ7GRDoe

April Holmes is a US Paralympian. I cannot see OP's sister in this photo.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Oscar-Trial-The-shrink-has-shrunk-20140513
13 MAY 2014
The latest witness to be called in Oscar Pistorius's defence was forensic psychiatrist Merryl Vorster. Cybershrink dissects her evidence:

"Her idea is at best a theory, not a fact. A great many children undergo surgery and other trauma at an early age, and hardly any of them grow up to shoot people".

"She claimed significance for, and used, the claim that Oscar’s mother suffered from anxiety (though whether at the level of an actual disorder, rather than as a natural and sadly normal response to being left alone to bring up children on her own after her husband disappeared, is not clear).
Yet she made no comment at all on Oscar’s father, who is said to have walked out on his wife and children, quarrelled with them, has failed to even appear in Court and refused to even sign an affidavit to assist Oscar in his trial. Is it not possible that the father might have a relevant disorder, perhaps a personality disorder, which Oscar might have inherited or been influenced by? ".

Professor MA Simpson is Health24's CyberShrink. [A South African psychiatrist, he qualified in medicine and in psychiatry in Britain. He has been a senior academic, researcher, and Professor in several countries].

 

[Val1]

I would also like to know more about Dr Richard Holmes and when OP saw him. Why wasn't RH called as a witness? Maybe he is the next witness. Here is what I found out about him:



Richard G Holmes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

hmm this was interesting, wonder why... :
Sean Holmes (surfer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

03:30, 13 April 2014 Malik Shabazz (talk | contribs) deleted page Sean Holmes (surfer)

 

[minor4th]

The Dr that the defence called did.... and opened the door.

See, I disagree as I explained in the post you quoted.

 

[Really?]

The thing is with any anxiety disorder, the trigger for bringing on the flight or fight response can be an ordinary every day occurrence, not a life threatening situation. Someone close to me suffers from this disorder and the triggers included catching a cold, overcast skies, dusk etc. What would ensue would be a full blown panic attack, whereby my friend would want to flee somewhere, anywhere or ortherwise would pace up and down relentlessly, for hours at a time. When in the grip of these attacks, she would not be able to concenrate sufficiently to read, watch tv or make conversation. Terrible to watch even, I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to be in the throws of an attck. I am sure Oscar would have presented with typical symptoms well ahead of that fateful night, the symptoms are not easy to mask, especially when the flight or fight response is triggered.

Nice post.....double thanks.