Trial Discussion Thread #39 - 14.05.14 Day 32

[MeeBee]

I'm actually looking forward to the findings when all of this is concluded. I think there are some complex psych issues going on within OP

I do, too and have said as much since the very beginning. It's surprising this hasn't been done already! I think, at the very least, the tests will reveal PTSD. And what they find may not be GAD, at all.

 

[TorisMom003]

I do, too and have said as much since the very beginning. It's surprising this hasn't been done already! I think, at the very least, the tests will reveal PTSD.

I'm curious as to why PTSD. And is this from him shooting Reeva or from a time before?

 

[minor4th]

That's fine if you hold a lot of faith in psychologists .. I personally don't, and I'm not fully confident that they will determine the correct diagnosis for OP. There is a lot riding on this with regard to whether they assess him correctly or not, and they may well assess him incorrectly as having GAD which in turn will bolster his version.

I personally hate psych testimony in trials because it's so subjective.

 

[jay-jay]

I do, too and have said as much since the very beginning. It's surprising this hasn't been done already! I think, at the very least, the tests will reveal PTSD. And what they find may not be GAD, at all.

Do you mean PTSD since his killing of Reeva*? I thought the reason for the assessment was to try and determine his state of mind at the time he killed her, not his state of mind after the killing?


*as opposed to the boating accident, I mean.

 

[MeeBee]

I'm curious as to why PTSD. And is this from him shooting Reeva or from a time before?

After.

 

[MeeBee]

Do you mean PTSD since his killing of Reeva? I thought the reason for the assessment was to try and determine his state of mind at the time he killed her, not his state of mind after the killing?

I think the point of the assessment is to find out whatever is going on with him. I assume a 30-day evaluation will be quite thorough...

 

[jay-jay]

I personally hate psych testimony in trials because it's so subjective.

Yup ...

 

[TorisMom003]

That's fine if you hold a lot of faith in psychologists .. I personally don't, and I'm not fully confident that they will determine the correct diagnosis for OP. There is a lot riding on this with regard to whether they assess him correctly or not, and they may well assess him incorrectly as having GAD which in turn will bolster his version.

The defense will not be able to make sure what information the Drs are allowed to view like they did with Vorster. Nel is involved this time so things will be much different. For instance, OP's trial transcript of his testimony will more than likely be provided. Then also the other evaluations that have been done, all of them. The defense/OP will not be able to pick and choose this time around and that will hurt OP more than help him.

MOO

 

[jay-jay]

I think the point of the assessment is to find out whatever is going on with him. I assume a 30-day evaluation will be quite thorough...

That's not answering my question though .. you mentioned PTDS and I asked if you meant 'since he killed Reeva?'

ETA .. have just seen that you haven now answered the same question put by TorisMom

 

[MeeBee]

The defense will not be able to make sure what information the Drs are allowed to view like they did with Vorster. Nel is involved this time so things will be much different. For instance, OP's trial transcript of his testimony will more than likely be provided. Then also the other evaluations that have been done, all of them. The defense/OP will not be able to pick and choose this time around and that will hurt OP more than help him.

MOO

And these doctors, presumably, won't be hired guns. They're findings are more likely to be objective and scientific.

 

[MeeBee]

That's not answering my question though .. you mentioned PTDS and I asked if you meant 'since he killed Reeva?'

I already replied in a PP to Tori'smom that I meant after.

 

[TorisMom003]

After.

IMO he doesn't act like a man with PTSD. While there are aspects that he has tried to claim, hiding in the closet/cabinet in the middle of the night, he has shown by his actions, going out on the town (when crime is "high") with buds drinking and flirting it up, that he is normal by most standards.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

And these doctors, presumably, won't be hired guns. They're findings are more likely to be objective and scientific.

Reminds me if the Anders Breivik trial in Norway. The judge ordered a comprehensive psych study by independent psychologists and them didn't like their findings so commissioned another psych study by a different team.

Not surprisingly they came to 2 opposite conclusions re: insanity

 

[jay-jay]

Polygraph was not brought up in the post that was responded to. I hope that it is known that someone (esp a professional) can spot a liar without the use of a polygraph. Compulsive liars have been diagnosed as such before, and will continue to be diagnosed as such, without need of a polygraph.

MOO

It would just be so brilliant if they could use it though, just like on the Jeremy Kyle show :loveyou::floorlaugh:

 

[Hope4More]

Thinking more about it.....I can see why a mid-trial mandated assessment would make any defense atty upset. Interrupts his presentation, opens the door to the unknown and uncontrolled.

But what a huge benefit it is to the goal of trying to establish the truth of what happened. Hired DT psych experts can be paid to say anything, same for the State's.

This way neutral experts have a shot at peeping into OP's psyche. Kudos to SA's way of handling this....

 

[MeeBee]

IMO he doesn't act like a man with PTSD. While there are aspects that he has tried to claim, hiding in the closet/cabinet in the middle of the night, he has shown by his actions, going out on the town (when crime is "high") with buds drinking and flirting it up, that he is normal by most standards.

MOO

IMO, it's difficult to tell from the outside if someone is suffering from PTSD since the trigger of symptoms is a particular incident. But, IMO, I certainly think it's possible. He said early on that at night he can smell blood, he has trouble sleeping, etc. That's an awfully specific thing to claim. Certainly, one can have PTSD and still be guilty. And, IMO, if he's lying about those things then it will become known.

 

[MeeBee]

Reminds me if the Anders Breivik trial in Norway. The judge ordered a comprehensive psych study by independent psychologists and them didn't like their findings so commissioned another psych study by a different team.

Not surprisingly they came to 2 opposite conclusions re: insanity

I guess we'll just have to wait and see \o/! Normally, you can tell which psychologist/s are more trustworthy and ethical and whether they're just blowing smoke...normally.

 

[BritsKate]

I think that it was his intent to make sure that whatever the sentence is for OP, that it sticks. If the defense were able to fight the order for OP to be evaluated then he could use that as a claim in an appeal.

Nel has not shown that he is a vindictive man. If anything, Nel has done more than his share of standing up for Roux when OP threw him under the bus repeatedly. It always amazes me the levels to which Nel is accused of wrong doings. For instance, yesterday he was accused of putting forth this application for reasons other than making sure that the case against OP was bullet (appeal) proof. Now today Nel's decision was not for his benefit, he was simply coaxed into doing it because of the Defense.

It appears to me that there is an obvious disdain for prosecutors. The ones that are simply doing their jobs, trying to get justice for the victims and their families, trying to abide by the laws. Really pathetic IMO.

MOO

To be totally fair, I find I often have a disdain for defence attorneys though I rarely openly criticise them. A few are exceptional and some are very good - obviously they're a necessity for the justice system but some (cough Baez cough) leave much to be desired when it comes to ethical standards.

Defending a defence attorney, ala Roux, is highly unusual for me personally. Though to that, I'd have to say if I can defend a defence attorney then perhaps others could possibly entertain how difficult and demanding a position a prosecutor is often in.

Both men, front and center in this trial, have earned their reputations with careers spanning decades. Both men, at least in my own personal perspective, are worthy of my respect...though one alone makes me blush while pondering/daydreaming/fantasizing about his brilliance. I'll leave ya'll to guess who.

JMO

 

[sleuth-d-]

That's fine if you hold a lot of faith in psychologists .. I personally don't, and I'm not fully confident that they will determine the correct diagnosis for OP. There is a lot riding on this with regard to whether they assess him correctly or not, and they may well assess him incorrectly as having GAD which in turn will bolster his version.

if it is 4 professionals, 30 days to assess, and around thirty days to create a report, i would be pretty sure that's a more watertight process - whatever they come up with - than one psych/2 meetings and a couple of days to write a report.

also it looks like both the pt and dt are working together to agree the team and the assessment terms. so going forward, there is not going to be much room for either side to argue the findings. this to me is the ideal way to proceed.

 

[TorisMom003]

IMO, it's difficult to tell from the outside if someone is suffering from PTSD since the trigger of symptoms is a particular incident. But, IMO, I certainly think it's possible. He said early on that at night he can smell blood, he has trouble sleeping, etc. That's an awfully specific thing to claim. Certainly, one can have PTSD and still be guilty. And, IMO, if he's lying about those things then it will become known.

OP claimed before he shot Reeva that he had problems sleeping. Remember those late/middle of the night trips to the firing range? The smell of blood, well since he killed Reeva and had her blood pretty much all over him then I would hope that he can at times still smell it. If he couldn't then there would be cause for concern. IMO OP simply claims things in order to not take the blame for anything. He has proven this time and time again. The Tashas incident, he clearly was to blame for that and yet he still refuses to admit it. The only time he sortof took ownership for one of his own actions was when he was pushed while on the stand. And even then he had to add a BUT to it. Yes, he was responsible for shooting/killing Reeva BUT if only she had come out or spoken to him it wouldn't have happened.

MOO