Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[soozieqtips]

Having sat through many court cases over the years, I've seen many different displays of emotion from defendants
but I have never seen them being physically sick into a bucket as Pistorius has been, repeatedly, today.

As the hearing went on and the retching became louder and louder, Judge Thokozile Masipa had to direct the witness to continue, having been told by Pistorius' lawyer that his client did not want them to stop for him but to get through this evidence as quickly as possible

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ius-murder-trial-March-10-as-it-happened.html

So poor little OP didn't want to leave the room (even though he had the choice). No. He chose to stay and listen to the evidence (that he was responsible for) and then he chose to disrupt the proceedings by repeatedly throwing up. If that wasn't enough, he wanted the evidence over 'as quickly as possible' so that, what, he didn't have to suffer? Spoilt narcissistic brat. He should shut up and remember why he's on trial. He's not calling the shots here (pardon the pun) even though he seems to be acting that way.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It was an homeopathic remedy.
It is frequently used by athletes for minor injuries.

Not according to my research:-

The Oscar Pistorius case is getting murkier and murkier. Pistorius’ legal team claims that the substance found in his bedroom wasn’t anabolic steroids and syringes but actually a herbal sex remedy which is called Testocompasutium co-enzyme which is marketed as testis compositum and is used to alleviate male sexual problems!

It’s been described as a homeopathic male performance/reproductive system enhancer for problems such as lack of stamina, over-exhaustion among other conditions. Technically speaking it could be used to increase the heart rate and boost athletic performance but it isn’t a banned substance by WADA (World Anti-doping Agency), while the UK Anti-Doping body don’t test for it. These tablets are widely available online and are usually used to boost sexual performance. This puts paid to an earlier theory that the former Olympian and Paralympian had shot his girlfriend in a fit of ‘roid rage’ - a mental instability caused by the indiscriminate use of anabolic steroids.

 

[soozieqtips]

The whole thing from OP has been a crock from start to finish, IMO. The so-called 'intruder' was inside a locked bathroom. OP could have pulled at RS in the bed and the both of them could have fled to safety.

NO, OP has to go get his gun and fire through a locked bathroom door. He could see to get the gun out from (supposedly) under the bed, but he couldn't see that RS was not in the bed? BS.

Someone had posted the SA law upthread. OP had a duty to retreat to safety if he could before shooting someone. He did not. Instead, he actually advanced toward the imagined intruder behind a locked bathroom door. OP, a man with no legs and at a decided disadvantage to someone with legs.

What happened here in my opinion was that there was an argument, OP lost his temper and was in a rage. I believe he knew what he was doing. He was really brave and big when he was holding that gun. In court facing what he has done, he has turned into a big, vomiting WUSS.

Period. End of statement! (and may be wrong)

GB Reeva, her family, and her friends. This did not have to happen.

And it didn't once occur to him to fire a warning shot. Nope. He went straight for the kill knowing those bullets would snuff out anyone behind that door.

 

[zwiebel]

Has anyone seen that LEFT arm injury mentioned before today, anyone?

 

[aa9511]

You may be right! Did Jon Benet eat pineapple?

Is so, I have got my cases mixed up. Sorry.

But concerning the eating, I have often wondered when they ate and who cooked. OP seemed to be preoccupied all night with used car websites and *advertiser censored*. Did they dine early or was she still waiting for him? Or was she still hungry at 1am or thereafter?

I do not understand the *advertiser censored* part....AT ALL. Where was he watching this *advertiser censored*? I mean, would he have done it in front of Reeva? Or were they possibly watching it together? I find it hard to imagine that Reeva is in bed with him reading a book or something while he's watching *advertiser censored*. Also hard for me to imagine her doing something else like cooking or doing yoga, while he's in bed or wherever watching *advertiser censored*. Or maybe he took a "break" in the bathroom?

It's just a confusing piece of the puzzle.

 

[bessie]

Thank you so much!

The left arm injury is a mystery to me. Wonder if that's a simple mistake? The right arm injury, with bullet passing through to injure right side of the head makes sense.

That would make sense, and Stipp stated a wound to the right arm. He said nothing of the left arm. So does that mean only two bullets entered the body? And the report of the fractured left arm is a mistake?

bullet 1 -- head and right arm
bullet 2 -- right thigh/groin

-or-

bullet 1 -- head and left arm
bullet 2 -- right arm
bullet 3 -- right thigh/groin

ETA: Or, was the left arm fractured by some means other than a gunshot wound?

 

[Lyra500]

Not according to my research:-

The Oscar Pistorius case is getting murkier and murkier. Pistorius’ legal team claims that the substance found in his bedroom wasn’t anabolic steroids and syringes but actually a herbal sex remedy which is called Testocompasutium co-enzyme which is marketed as testis compositum and is used to alleviate male sexual problems!

It’s been described as a homeopathic male performance/reproductive system enhancer for problems such as lack of stamina, over-exhaustion among other conditions. Technically speaking it could be used to increase the heart rate and boost athletic performance but it isn’t a banned substance by WADA (World Anti-doping Agency), while the UK Anti-Doping body don’t test for it. These tablets are widely available online and are usually used to boost sexual performance. This puts paid to an earlier theory that the former Olympian and Paralympian had shot his girlfriend in a fit of ‘roid rage’ - a mental instability caused by the indiscriminate use of anabolic steroids.

At the risk of being terribly anal, i have to point out that herbal remedies and homeopathic remedies are completely different from each other. Herbal remedies contain active quantities of herbs which can illicit physiological responses and effects. Homeopathic remedies (in my own personal view) are actually placebos, since they are diluted down until they can no longer contain detectable amounts of anything. I think the product in OP's house was herbal - so containing measurable amounts of ingredient.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It was an homeopathic remedy.
It is frequently used by athletes for minor injuries.

Here is another article

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2013/03/01/testis-compositum-pistorius-medicine-not-medicine/

“The product seized at Pistorius’ residence is one of these homeopathic remedies. The product contains extracts of both glands and plants. Here’s a description of the injectable version from a UK retailer:
Composition: 2.2 ml containing: Testis suis D4, Embryo suis D8, Glandula suprarenalis suis D13, Kalium picrinicum D6, Ginseng D4, Damiana D8, Caladium seguinum D6, Cor suis D8, Cortiso-num aceticum D13, Vitex agnus-castus D6, Selenium D10, Cantharis D8, Conium maculatum D28, Lycopodium clavatum D28, Phosphorus D8, Diencephalon suis D10, Magnesium phos¬phoricum D10, Ferrum phosphoricum D10, Manganum pho-sphoricum D8, Zincum metallicum D10, Acidum ascorbicum D6 22 ul each.

Indications: Disorders of male sexual function such as impotence, premature ejaculation, Peyronie’s disease (penile induration), adi-positogenital syndrome and andropause and related disorders such as exhaustion, for metabolic support in males such as in di¬abetes mellitus and osteomalacia (see below), damaged liver. Stimulation of regressive vicariation”

 

[Interested Bystander]

At the risk of being terribly anal, i have to point out that herbal remedies and homeopathic remedies are completely different from each other. Herbal remedies contain active quantities of herbs which can illicit physiological responses and effects. Homeopathic remedies (in my own personal view) are actually placebos, since they are diluted down until they can no longer contain detectable amounts of anything. I think the product in OP's house was herbal - so containing measurable amounts of ingredient.

Thank you, both articles say homeopathic but there are so many articles to choose from. I agree with your comment about homeopathic remedies.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I will respond to your post underneath with >>>>>>



>>>>>>I agree with you. I have never heard of a Judge being so weak. In Australia too, Judges have control. But the worst thing IMO was when she said that Roux was allowed to put things into the witnesss' mouth!!!

I have been wanting to say that I thought this judge was weak. I am not familiar with SA courts so I didn't say it until now. I certainly do not want her to be weak when it comes to the verdict or sentencing.

I further think the preclusion of the ME's testimony was wrong. So many of us here have listened to and watched a great number of criminal trials with delicate or gruesome testimony, and we did it for the victims. This was a ruling (IMO) that was advantageous to OP and counsel. The ruling kept the cameras off of OP's face as the worst was being told. Surely the judge had to know to whose advantage this was.

*Even though all we missed actually seeing was OP vomiting. BUT we should have gotten to hear the testimony, IMO.

MOO

 

[soozieqtips]

I do not understand the *advertiser censored* part....AT ALL. Where was he watching this *advertiser censored*? I mean, would he have done it in front of Reeva? Or were they possibly watching it together? I find it hard to imagine that Reeva is in bed with him reading a book or something while he's watching *advertiser censored*. Also hard for me to imagine her doing something else like cooking or doing yoga, while he's in bed or wherever watching *advertiser censored*. Or maybe he took a "break" in the bathroom?

It's just a confusing piece of the puzzle.

He was apparently watching it on one of his phones, so screen size would possibly preclude Reeva watching it with him. Also, while I know numerous couples like to watch *advertiser censored* together, not me, or a single female friend of mine has any interest whatsoever in violent *advertiser censored*. Who gets off on watching women being abused and violated in such scenarios? I'm pretty broad minded, but that's a line too far. I honestly don't imagine the two of them snug in bed watching stuff like that on his phone. Seems like he was pretty detached for most of the evening, apart from the *advertiser censored* and cars.

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm officially hating this case and not because it's a tragic murder (because they all are tragic) but because it feels especially corrupt and just wrong. It doesn't seem like good information is coming out, I feel like OP is playing games, and the focus has shifted to him instead of the victim. And yes, that too happens in many, if not most, murder trials. But even him just sitting there is like theatre. The crying, the shaking, the covering his ears, the retching and vomitus.

I don't understand why the judge would not force him to take a break, as it were, and not be in the room if he can't handle or comport himself. Even if he were in a private room where he could hear the witness testimony through a set of speakers, would be better in such situations where he is unable to physically handle the testimony.

What is so shocking about Reeva's injuries? He was there and he did them and he saw her and them right afterwards. I suspect, as others have already opined in this thread, that OP's reactions may have nothing to do with Reeva and nothing to do with her injuries, but the manifestation of his own fear about what could happen to him, and the potential loss of his freedom.

Someone who is so trigger happy is not a delicate, squeamish, precious bloke, IMO. And if he was, why his obsession with guns? I really think he's upset because he got caught and now is in the uncomfortable position of having responsibility poured on him.

 

[shane13]

Now since someone has just asked me about my recent hypotheses.
But understand before I list them that I must be accredited with my writings and hypotheses, in your future posts.

1. It was something else other than rage, or in addition to it, that was OP’s state of mind.
2. RE the whole gunshot, “batshots”, screaming last 20 minutes or so of Reeva’s life. The number of shooting volleys may be different than both sides in the trial are alleging. Likewise for the timing of gunshots and batshots, screaming etc.
3. The final killing of Reeva may have been done in a more horrifying way than anyone else has depicted here. And HINT this hypothesis relates to all my other points here (except last one).
4. There are medical issues in play here but I am not asking for anyone to know this really, just the brain states.
5. Oscar’s crying and covering his ears etc, even the barfing, I assert is not likely fake or an act, but relates deeply again to his underlying problems, which relates to my other points herein.
6. There may be another recent one if I can later recall it. Again make sure to accedit me for all this, or else I may be gone and you may not get to know vastly more that I have written. ©Shane13

Now do me proud, HAVE FUN with your replies, and get back to me.

 

[Carol70]

He was apparently watching it on one of his phones, so screen size would possibly preclude Reeva watching it with him. Also, while I know numerous couples like to watch *advertiser censored* together, not me, or a single female friend of mine has any interest whatsoever in violent *advertiser censored*. Who gets off on watching women being abused and violated in such scenarios? I'm pretty broad minded, but that's a line too far. I honestly don't imagine the two of them snug in bed watching stuff like that on his phone. Seems like he was pretty detached for most of the evening, apart from the *advertiser censored* and cars.

Where was it said he was watching violent *advertiser censored*??? I don't think I've seen that mentioned anywhere except here?

 

[kittychi]

Now since someone has just asked me about my recent hypotheses.
But understand before I list them that I must be accredited with my writings and hypotheses, in your future posts./B]

1. It was something else other than rage, or in addition to it, that was OP’s state of mind.
2. RE the whole gunshot, “batshots”, screaming last 20 minutes or so of Reeva’s life. The number of shooting volleys may be different than both sides in the trial are alleging. Likewise for the timing of gunshots and batshots, screaming etc.
3. The final killing of Reeva may have been done in a more horrifying way than anyone else has depicted here. And HINT this hypothesis relates to all my other points here (except last one).
4. There are medical issues in play here but I am not asking for anyone to know this really, just the brain states.
5. Oscar’s crying and covering his ears etc, I assert is not likely fake or an act, but relates deeply again to his underlying problems, which relates to my other points herein.
6. There may be another recent one if I can later recall it. Again make sure to accedit me for all this, or else I may be gone and you may not get to know vastly more that I have written. ©Shane13

Now do me proud, and get back to me.

Shane, you need to change your WS ID to "Riddler." :crazy:

I will try to address #1: Besides rage, and/or in addition to rage, is fear. Fear that Reeva will expose something about him that he does not want exposed. Something so devastating that he loses his mind in panic and shoots her.

 

[FrancesB]

I've thought for a long time that Pistorius broke that panel in the toilet door and then shot her. If he was just blindly firing, it's a bit weird that he shot her in the head, what are the chances of that, given he supposedly couldn't see her?

In fact, if it had been an intruder and said intruder stood directly opposite the toilet and against the wall that also forms the wall to the shower room, what are the chances that the supposed "intruder" would have been shot at all?

I'm wondering if "surprise" information is looming.

 

[shane13]

Here is another article

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2013/03/01/testis-compositum-pistorius-medicine-not-medicine/

“The product seized at Pistorius’ residence is one of these homeopathic remedies. The product contains extracts of both glands and plants. Here’s a description of the injectable version from a UK retailer:
Composition: 2.2 ml containing: Testis suis D4, Embryo suis D8, Glandula suprarenalis suis D13, Kalium picrinicum D6, Ginseng D4, Damiana D8, Caladium seguinum D6, Cor suis D8, Cortiso-num aceticum D13, Vitex agnus-castus D6, Selenium D10, Cantharis D8, Conium maculatum D28, Lycopodium clavatum D28, Phosphorus D8, Diencephalon suis D10, Magnesium phos¬phoricum D10, Ferrum phosphoricum D10, Manganum pho-sphoricum D8, Zincum metallicum D10, Acidum ascorbicum D6 22 ul each.

Indications: Disorders of male sexual function such as impotence, premature ejaculation, Peyronie’s disease (penile induration), adi-positogenital syndrome and andropause and related disorders such as exhaustion, for metabolic support in males such as in di¬abetes mellitus and osteomalacia (see below), damaged liver. Stimulation of regressive vicariation”

Well I got done wth this aspect a year ago. I'll just say, homeopathy (like this one remedy Testis Compistum) is very big in UK ("Royal" family too) Germany, India, and many other countries. Was big in USA along with herbs until petrochemicals in early 1900s.
Played no role in OP's actions--both sides agreed. And I will say no more on this.

 

[kittychi]

That would make sense, and Stipp stated a wound to the right arm. He said nothing of the left arm. So does that mean only two bullets entered the body? And the report of the fractured left arm is a mistake?

bullet 1 -- head and right arm
bullet 2 -- right thigh/groin

-or-

bullet 1 -- head and left arm
bullet 2 -- right arm
bullet 3 -- right thigh/groin

ETA: Or, was the left arm fractured by some means other than a gunshot wound?

It had to be a very clumsy and unwieldy task to pick Reeva up and maneuver her body through the hallways and down the steps. Perhaps the left arm was fractured during that unimaginable action.

.

 

[shane13]

Shane, you need to change your WS ID to "Riddler." :crazy:

I will try to address #1: Besides rage, and/or in addition to rage, is fear. Fear that Reeva will expose something about him that he does not want exposed. Something so devastating that he loses his mind in panic and shoots her.

Thanks for trying, and don't give up.
No, not fear or panic.

RE your "Riddler' moniker, I merely ask sleuthers to sleuth...

 

[bessie]

I wish the court would provide one of those body diagrams as I've seen in US court rooms, charting all the wounds. They are completely non-graphic and bloodless, so there is no reason not to....

And impervious to the defendant's retching.