Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[Estelle]

bbm

This is almost exactly what I posted earlier upthread.

He was afraid of losing her (hence the jealousy), and I also said kind of a "too good to be true" thing that he probably saw in the whole situation of him dating Reeva.

JMO.

IMO Pistorius has very deep fear of abandonment issues by women. When people have this fear they subconsciously push people away because they think they will abandon them.

Also, I wonder whether OP had gotten over Samantha Taylor going to Dubai with another man in 2012. He would have felt abandoned by her as well as his mother. Does Pistorius really think deep down that all women are going to abandon him? I wonder if that is the pattern of his relationships? When the relationship ends, is it the woman who abandons him? If RS told OP that night that she wanted to end the relationship, maybe he could not take another abandonment in such a short time?

 

[aa9511]

I didn't get that impression, but of course, we're information challenged. I'm inclined to believe the fracture at the base of the skull was caused by the bullet exiting the skull. JMO If so, wouldn't that mean he shot down at her from a higher point? Why would he shoot downward from outside the door?

Hmm....if the one to the head was the last one, the one to her right thigh/leg would have caused her to fall down, or at least fall to her knees, maybe?

In any case, I think he could see exactly what he was pointing at, otherwise how would he get 3 shots in?

 

[shane13]

Another thing to add to this list is a remark made by Trish Taylor, Samantha's mother. Apparently, Pistorius often used to stay at their house and when she observed his behaviour, she advised Pistorius to have counselling but he never did.

What were Phil Spector's gun behaviours with women like? I have never heard of him.

Do you have a link re OP staying at the Taylor residence?
TIA

 

[Cherwell]

The interesting thing is that IIRC the only people who heard the gunshots and screams on February 14, seem to have been people who do not have air conditioning, namely Michelle Burger and Charl Johnson who live 770 metres away from OP. Their neighbours did not hear anything as they have air conditioning. I am not sure about Dr Stipp but he was much closer.

I don't think that's right, as there has been mention of other neighbours phoning security. Mr/s Nhlegenthwa I think.

 

[aa9511]

I'm sorry, but the *advertiser censored* on his phone means nothing to me. Men watch *advertiser censored*. Whether they're in a relationship, whether they're in love, whether they're married. I've never met a single man that didn't. There's *advertiser censored* on my husband's phone. X rated! It is just what it is. This doesn't mean anything in relation to Oscar's feelings for Reeva or his having "violent" tendencies. It means he's a man with a phone that has internet.

Meebee, I agree, but what I think is odd is if he watched it that night, because we know Reeva was there that night. We know she got there at 6 pm. Well....ok, I guess I hvae to wait for the phone records to be talked about, b/c if he watched it before 6, that would not catch my radar. It's if he watched it after 6 (while she was there), that would cause my hinky-meter to go up.

Usually IMO couples either watch it together, or the man watches it when the woman is not there or can't see him.

I'm thinking about the logistics of him watching it with her in the apartment.

JMO.

 

[shane13]

Sigh. Ok.

btw I was referring to all of your points - my point was I still don't get it.

The one about Oscar vomiting and holding his heads, I wrote out what it was.

Maybe best to tackle each one separately. And I did answer you in that there's nothing sexual in the answers--or the overall. Don't recall now what you said re #5.:[ "Oscar’s crying and covering his ears etc, even the barfing, I assert is not likely fake or an act, but relates deeply again to his underlying problems, which relates to my other points herein.] uless your reply was about somehting sexual."

 

[whiterum]

The *advertiser censored* watching thing will also be important as to the recorded times he was viewing it that night. It will prove if he was wide awake and not asleep as he claims up until 3am in the morning.

 

[kittychi]

IMO Pistorius has very deep fear of abandonment issues by women. When people have this fear they subconsciously push people away because they think they will abandon them.

Also, I wonder whether OP had gotten over Samantha Taylor going to Dubai with another man in 2012. He would have felt abandoned by her as well as his mother. Does Pistorius really think deep down that all women are going to abandon him? I wonder if that is the pattern of his relationships? When the relationship ends, is it the woman who abandons him? If RS told OP that night that she wanted to end the relationship, maybe he could not take another abandonment in such a short time?

IMO, because of the Valentine's Gift it was not her plan to end the relationship.

Just Speculation: I keep coming back to this...but if he was drinking, as he is known to do, and was overly intoxicated, perhaps that is what they were fighting about? I know if I was looking forward to a romantic evening and my partner got really drunk, I would be infuriated. Like he was drinking to escape the evening...that would have been very insulting.

ETA: Drinking could also help explain the happy trigger finger.

 

[MeeBee]

Meebee, I agree, but what I think is odd is if he watched it that night, because we know Reeva was there that night. We know she got there at 6 pm. Well....ok, I guess I hvae to wait for the phone records to be talked about, b/c if he watched it before 6, that would not catch my radar. It's if he watched it after 6 (while she was there), that would cause my hinky-meter to go up.

Usually IMO couples either watch it together, or the man watches it when the woman is not there or can't see him.

I'm thinking about the logistics of him watching it with her in the apartment.

JMO.

IMO, since he was watching it on his phone that tells me he was being sneaky/secretive about it. That's not out of the realm of possibility to me. If he ever found himself alone i.e. In the bath or using the restroom, he may have used that as an opportunity. ST said he always had his phone with him. Either way, why would it cause your hinky meter to go up?

 

[MeeBee]

The *advertiser censored* watching thing will also be important as to the recorded times he was viewing it that night. It will prove if he was wide awake or asleep as he claims up until 3am in the morning.

For timing purposes this is quite true. But I won't judge a man for having a healthy *advertiser censored* fascination. I just can't do it. The whole Jodi Arias trial was the DT trying to paint TA as a perverted pervert for having *advertiser censored* that he did not even have. I think it's just not enough for me. Perfectly wonderful men watch *advertiser censored*.

 

[Estelle]

Do you have a link re OP staying at the Taylor residence?
TIA

Taylor’s mother, Trish, was like a mother to Pistorius, whose mother died of cancer when he was 15 years old. So close was he to the Taylors he regularly stayed with them at their home in northern Joburg. Trish repeatedly tried to persuade Pistorius to go for counselling and said she did not want her daughter to be involved with him if he did not.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-finds-new-love/

 

[Estelle]

I don't think that's right, as there has been mention of other neighbours phoning security. Mr/s Nhlegenthwa I think.

Cherwell, if you read my sentence again, I was only talking about the neighbours who live next to Michelle Burger and Charl Johnston. I said "their" neighbours had air conditioning so they did not hear the gunshots and screams.

 

[jilly]

Regarding the reports of OP's demeanor in the courtroom today (plugging his ears, retching, vomiting), my feeling is that he is someone who seems unable to take responsibility for his actions. I did not take the ear plugging to be a defensive act of someone who didn't want to hear the details of their lover's death, I took it to be an unwillingness to confront the reality and consequences of his own actions.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

:drumroll: :goodpost: :clap:

 

[Estelle]

Estelle, I think you meant 170 metres.

Roux brought up OP ventilating his legs with fans during Samantha Taylor's testimony. She denied she had ever seen him do it.

Thanks IB. You are right that is a typo. Unfortunately, I cannot correct it now.

The distance is 170 metres from Michelle and Charl's home.

 

[shane13]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-finds-new-love/

Thank you Estelle!

 

[Harmony 2]

Thanks IB. You are right that is a typo. Unfortunately, I cannot correct it now.

The distance is 170 metres from Michelle and Charl's home.

Hi Estelle,
I will correct it for you... :seeya:

 

[Pisto_lius]

Yes - and Dr. Stipp testified that he observed OP promising God that if Reeva lived, OP would dedicate his life and Reeva's life to God.

He claimed ownership of Reeva when he made that declaration. This, to me, demonstrates his mindset. IMO, he did not perceive Reeva as an autonomous person, but as an object of which he possessed ultimate control.

This is a very common attribute of perpetrators of domestic violence assaults and domestic violence homicides.

* In the presence of Dr Stipp OP promised God that if Reeva lived, OP would dedicate his life and Reeva's life to God..... Dr Stipp saw the blood and brain tissue and told him there is nothing he [Dr Stipp] can do for her - she is dead......

..... OP also saw her injuries, the blood and brain tissue - but he had nothing better to do than to turn around, went upstairs (presumably wash his face and hands and made calls).....as though nothing had happened....

* In the presence of the judge, a lot of journalists and the public he vomited for hours when he only heard about Reeva's horrible injuries.....

* Was he vomiting when he pulled Reeva from the toilet room into the bathroom and also saw her injuries, the blood and the brain tissue ? NO !

* Is there a single word in his affidavit about *horror*, *terror*, *shock* or *despair* when he saw what he had done, what happened with Reeva ??? NO, nothing !....

He only used such words when he described his fear of an alleged intruder.....

* When Pieter Baba asked him what happened because he [Baba] was informed about screams and shots OP answered "Everyhing is fine".....

He had just shot his girlfriend - his *great love* - but "Everyhing is fine"..... No *horror*, no *terror*, no *shock*....


But in court he pukes guts out, cries and prays with his whole family..... What a great actor !!

 

[sorrell skye]

Pistorius appeared deeply physically distressed throughout the testimony, repeatedly making retching sounds and clutching his head in his hands. The track star, 27, appeared at times to try to cover his ears by clasping his hands behind his neck, or he put his fingers in his ears.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial/

My message to Oscar Pistorius:

Man up, dude. This what YOU did to Reeva. You saw her injuries the night you gunned her down. You carried her bleeding, broken, gunshot-battered body down your stairs. This is NOT new information to you, so stop pretending this is the first time you're hearing about her horrific injuries that YOU caused.

Plugging your ears, or covering your ears with your hands is something a child does when they don't want to hear the truth. Are you a child or are you a man?

You are/were an accomplished athlete, overcoming incredible obstacles to achieve success. Yet, these accomplishments do not make you a man. Athletic prowess is indeed admirable, but has little to no real value in terms of true manhood. It is a façade of manhood.

Did you plug or cover your ears when you were being lauded for your athletic achievements? No, of course you didn't. You welcomed the accolades showered upon you and everything that accompanied them - fame, financial rewards, admiration, etc.

You claimed to have loved Reeva. (To borrow your counsel's phrase), I put it to you: Love does not seek to block out the truth. Love does not seek to plug or cover one's ears to the truth, no matter how horrendous that truth may be. Love stands up and faces the truth, rather than cowering like a helpless child incapable of stomaching responsibility, as was demonstrated by your incessant theatrical retching.

If you would be a man, unplug your ears, open your eyes, and hear and see what you have done to a woman you claimed to have loved. Attempting to hide from the truth won't change reality one iota, but only exposes you for the manipulative coward that many believe you to be.

If you loved Reeva, as you would have the Court (and the world) believe, then man up and accept responsibility for what YOU did to her. Stop playing the role of the delicate child, because it only serves to perpetuate the image of a cowardly murderer, and does not serve justice for Reeva.

For once in your life, cast aside the costume of manhood that you have been wearing, and be a true man.

 

[shane13]

Are you Oscar?

Oscar alas does not know what he has or what is goig on with him, I assert. ALso I assert that I do. JMO
Many other differences.

I scream like a man. (Although I am sure he does too.) But many other diffeences.
Try for Point #1.

 

[aa9511]

BBM

It certainly seems that way (in response to the bolded sentence). Why does somebody shield themselves? Because they know the other person has a weapon. We know the bullet entered the right arm above the elbow and bullet/bullet fragments entered the head behind the right ear at the base of the skull. Cross your arms in front of your head, across your forehead and that seems to give you that trajectory.

That makes sense.

Do we know what the trajectory of the bullets were?

Where did the bullets end up, or did they come out or did they lodge inside her?

I know the head one came out.

My theory earlier was that she was holding the door closed with the right side of her body, but in that case, the bullet in her right hip and right arm would get lodged in her. If she was holding her arms up, would the bullet come out of her arm on the other side, or would it be blocked by the bone in her arm? I do not know that much about bullets and how much damage they do to tissue, trajectories, etc..