Trial Discussion Thread #45 - 14.07.3, Day 36

[Feynman]

If the case is reopened and OP did come back to the stand, one question I'd like answered is the 'breathing' contradiction.

If you guys had one more question or statement to put to OP that Nel didn't, what would it be?

Indeed the breathing contradiction appears like a huge piece of low hanging fruit for Nel - possibly the biggest single piece of counter evidence to OP's version out there. Both pathologists testified to a cessation in breathing almost immediately after the headshot. Fifteen minutes later, she's still breathing. I feel I must be missing something, or the PT has just been incompetent on this matter.

 

[delilah]

No, can't be a hoax .. it's been confirmed that it was made by the company who were going to do the cgi animation .. they are a genuine company.

Yes, I see that now. Incredible! This case gets more bizarre by the week. Can't see how it's going to do anything but weaken the defence case, not least because it differs so markedly from OP's version on the stand ie that he was wearing his prosthesis when he pulled RS out of the cubicle. A fairly important detail.

 

[delilah]

Indeed the breathing contradiction appears like a huge piece of low hanging fruit for Nel - possibly the biggest single piece of counter evidence to OP's version out there. Both pathologists testified to a cessation in breathing almost immediately after the headshot. Fifteen minutes later, she's still breathing. I feel I must be missing something, or the PT has just been incompetent on this matter.

Exactly. That's one of my biggest issues with OP's version.

 

[kaos]

If you slow the video down you can see where the stand-in has her left arm curled around OP's neck while her right arm is draped over OP's shoulder and it's outstretched (at 9 seconds) but at 12 seconds, the right arm comes up to hold herself onto OP's back. It was Reeva's right arm that was supposed to be nearly severed so she wouldn't have been able to do that and as she'd also have gunshots in her head and hip, she most certainly wouldn't have had brain function or the strength to cling on to OP the way the stand-in is doing.

 

[Feynman]

partial quote:

It will definitely now be more fascinating to find out when this was recorded. Why on earth would he re-enact pulling her out of the toilet struggling along on his hands and knees when he's testified he had his prosthetics on to bat at the door before he even got into the toilet area? It now means he was trying to find the best way to create a version that would be believable but at some point somebody has changed their mind about what his testimony was going to be and obviously decided not to show this video!

I don't think the DT know about this video. It's just too damning and if they paid to get this filmed, they'd have kept the recordings so they'd never have found their way into the PT's hands.

I disagree with your "it now means" statement. OP was committed to a version, in basic outline form, in his affidavit., as of Feb 22, 2013. No way could he change the story to "I pulled Reeva out of the toilet on my stumps" after that. There's a lot of wild speculation going on here today about this video. The truth is we don't know why the video shows what it does. (For all we know the DT leaked the video, hoping to sow confusion, throw smoke around, cause more delay, and otherwise impair the proceedings to help their client.)

 

[Viper]

Retweeted by Mandy Wiener
Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan 7m
#OscarPistorius lawyers say they are investigating the alleged leaking of re-enactment footage, believed to have been sold for millions

OH NOOOO!!! Bad news. Really bad news. It appears that OP participated in the video a long time ago when the DT felt that they needed to prove that OP could go after Mr. Intruder on his stumps very easily. But now the DT is trying to paint the image of OP as the ultimate invalid with extremely limited mobility on his stumps. This is such a screw up. One thing is for certain, Nel and me are both going to enjoy Monday's court proceedings, and Roux is freaking out right this minute!

 

[james83]

So who wants a bet that Oscar's contradictory mess of a performance on the stand made the Animation totally and utterly worthless and that's the reason why it was never shown by the defence.

 

[james83]

OH NOOOO!!! Bad news. Really bad news. It appears that OP participated in the video a long time ago when the DT felt that they needed to prove that OP could go after Mr. Intruder on his stumps very easily. But now the DT is trying to paint the image of OP as the ultimate invalid with extremely limited mobility on his stumps. This is such a screw up. One thing is for certain, Nel and me are both going to enjoy Monday's court proceedings, and Roux is freaking out right this minute!

T-A-I-L-O-R-I-N-G T-H-E E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E :jail::jail::jail:

 

[Greater Than]

That video is AWESOME! :floorlaugh:

 

[Interested Bystander]

Exactly. That's one of my biggest issues with OP's version.

That is the biggest reason why I think the second set of bangs was gunfire. RS would have died very quickly after being shot as the pathologists testified. Had the first bangs been gunfire, she would not have been breathing at 3.17am or thereabouts as OP claims. His version means he waited 15 minutes or more before summoning help. If the shots were earlier why did he wait so long to get help UNLESS he needed to be sure RS was dead so that she could not tell her story.

 

[Viper]

I have watched the video several times. All that I keep thinking now is that is exactly what I thought OP could do before Dr. V and Dr. D testified and made me think otherwise. Monday...

 

[AJ_DS]

OH NOOOO!!! Bad news. Really bad news. It appears that OP participated in the video a long time ago when the DT felt that they needed to prove that OP could go after Mr. Intruder on his stumps very easily. But now the DT is trying to paint the image of OP as the ultimate invalid with extremely limited mobility on his stumps. This is such a screw up. One thing is for certain, Nel and me are both going to enjoy Monday's court proceedings, and Roux is freaking out right this minute!

I wonder if this alleged 'leaked' video could be a DT strategy for an appeal or even a mistrial ?

Wouldn't put it past Oscar Pistorius to engineer such a thing.

 

[james83]

I have watched the video several times. All that I keep thinking now is that is exactly what I thought OP could do before Dr. V and Dr. D testified and made me think otherwise. Monday...

agree 100%, Dr Derman especially made Oscar sound totally helpless and virtually unable to walk at all on his stumps.
Derman must feel like leaving the country right now, Monday is going to be ugly for him.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Indeed the breathing contradiction appears like a huge piece of low hanging fruit for Nel - possibly the biggest single piece of counter evidence to OP's version out there. Both pathologists testified to a cessation in breathing almost immediately after the headshot. Fifteen minutes later, she's still breathing. I feel I must be missing something, or the PT has just been incompetent on this matter.

My boyfriend's mother was a R.N. in the U.S. Army during WWII. She related a story of having to handle a corpse that apparently "exhaled" as she moved it, giving her quite a fright. I hope some other medical types can help out here, but I believe it is possible for the lungs to retain air that could be expelled if the lungs are compressed, as might have happened with Oscar moving Reeva in the toilet cubicle, picking her up and carrying her downstairs.

 

[delilah]

That is the biggest reason why I think the second set of bangs was gunfire. RS would have died very quickly after being shot as the pathologists testified. Had the first bangs been gunfire, she would not have been breathing at 3.17am or thereabouts as OP claims. His version means he waited 15 minutes or more before summoning help. If the shots were earlier why did he wait so long to get help UNLESS he needed to be sure RS was dead so that she could not tell her story.

and even more implausibly, he claimed she "died in my arms" after he'd carried her down the stairs. Don't know why Nel didn't make more of that in the x exam. Maybe he had a good reason. He's much smarter than I am!

 

[kaos]

partial quote:I disagree with your "it now means" statement. OP was committed to a version, in basic outline form, in his affidavit., as of Feb 22, 2013. No way could he change the story to "I pulled Reeva out of the toilet on my stumps" after that. There's a lot of wild speculation going on here today about this video. The truth is we don't know why the video shows what it does. (For all we know the DT leaked the video, hoping to sow confusion, throw smoke around, cause more delay, and otherwise impair the proceedings to help their client.)

That's fine, I stand by my statement though. OP's testimony and the DT experts insist he used the bat to smash through the door all while being on his prosthetics (he also kicked the door with the prosthetics on according to testimony). So there is no earthly reason why they would instruct their client to get down on the floor, take his prosthetics off and show a "what if...?" scenario If OP told the DT he was on his prosthetics then that should be how he was kitted out for the re-enactment. If it was supposed to represent what happened, he'd have his legs on.

If I was charged with murder and my DT told me I had to go through the killing step by step, I wouldn't be taking part in a process that could tell a completely different story.

 

[soozieqtips]

I have watched the video several times. All that I keep thinking now is that is exactly what I thought OP could do before Dr. V and Dr. D testified and made me think otherwise. Monday...

Hey Viper, do you have a link to the video? I tried to view the one posted earlier, but it was just an advert for the clip.

Thanks :smile:

 

[G.bng]

Good to see you too, MeeBee! I hope they return to the fan cord under the speaker, that's pretty critical and so far all OP has said is it's not true, it only looks like that in the shown photo.

I really want to know his explanation of why his legs are on the other side of the bed, he put them there and then crawled over Reeva on the bed, or walked on his stumps around the bed to the side he usually doesn't sleep on?

Well it can't be critical since Nel made a mistake when he said the small fan cable went "under" or was "trapped" by the speaker. OP challenged him on this saying he was misleading the court since he could see in the photo it went in front of the speaker, which it does. And Nel only jumped on this on the fly and no sooner OP challenged him he backed down and conceded OP could be right saying he would study the photo that evening and come back about it next day. He never did bring it up again so presumably realised his mistake just as OP and the press did at the time.

If you study the photo carefully at the bottom left of the speaker you can see that where the cable meets the speaker it rises up some 2 inches above the ground before going behind it and that it is the shadow of the cable, a shadow that wouldn't be present if the cable were running flat on the ground, that makes it look like the cable is pinned underneath. It was reported in the press at the time as Nel's mistake, and iirc, even on here.

Below relative quote from an article in The Australian, as well as a tweet from Emily Smith of CNN:

Mr Nel said that a photograph proved that the fans could not reasonably have been moved. He said that it showed a cable trapped beneath a speaker. "That's misleading the court," Mr Pistorius said. "The cord runs in front of the speaker."
Inspection of the picture showed that he was correct. The trial continues.

The Times. Originally published as, "Oscar puts forward 'improbable' defence."

• 
  Emily Smith
  @EmilySmithCNN
  Nel says he's just noticed another problem. He says the fans cord is UNDER the speaker.pic.twitter.com/wIYQOuYwIP
  ​

 

[Viper]

I wonder if this alleged 'leaked' video could be a DT strategy for an appeal or even a mistrial ?

Wouldn't put it past Oscar Pistorius to engineer such a thing.

Well it is not a jury trial. And Masipa would have to declare a mistrial based on she and the two assessors not being able to be unbiased because of the video. I can't see that happening, but I am extremely biased. LOL!

As far as OP doing this behind Roux's back in hopes of an appeal after his conviction, I doubt it. He can use all sorts of stuff in an appeal but that does not mean that it would be successful. This video is devastating to the story that his DT is currently trying to get the court to believe. OP and Arnold would have to be complete fools to release this believing that it serves their interests in any way. It is devastating to his defense.

 

[Viper]

Hey Viper, do you have a link to the video? I tried to view the one posted earlier, but it was just an advert for the clip.

Thanks :smile:

It probably was ok, you just need to wait for the actual video to load. I have had to watch the same commercial over and over each time I replayed the video. FYI, Kohls food store is having a fantastic sale on family size blocks of Cadbury chocolates! Here is the link, good luck:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/watch/24393536/exclusive-pistorius-video/