Trial Discussion Thread #46 - 14.07.7, Day 37

[AJ_DS]

Assistance anyone ?

I watch the proceedings on SABC Digital News

The last thing I saw was at the end of the Session 3 video when Masipa is saying she would take a few minutes adjournment before ruling on the DT's application to consult with the PT's team psychiatrist…

… I got nothing else !!!

Did Masipa give her ruling ? Did DT bring forth another witness ? Did DT rest ? Is there an after lunch Session 4 ?

What is going on ??

Thank you in advance

 

[Peliman]

Just catching up (and reading backwards, of course) ....So according to the still shot above, OP appears to contend that dead Reeva (or nearly dead Reeva) helpfully wrapped her right arm up around OP's shoulder (head upright! Despite the head shot she sustained! And left arm clutched to chest?), and lovingly cupped OP's neck despite brain matter leaking from her head, her hip shattered, and losing massive quantities of blood?

Is that his sister lovingly cupping his neck? :waitasec:

I thought about this also even without seeing the video first. With no control of body muscles, neck muscles, arms and limbs. A lifeless body is no easy task to pick up, it was part of military training.

Am I wrong or did he bring her into the hallway first before picking her up.

 

[Val1]

Assistance anyone ?

I watch the proceedings on SABC Digital News

The last thing I saw was at the end of the Session 3 video when Masipa is saying she would take a few minutes adjournment before ruling on the DT's application to consult with the PT's team psychiatrist…

… I got nothing else !!!

Did Masipa give her ruling ? Did DT bring forth another witness ? Did DT rest ? Is there an after lunch Session 4 ?

What is going on ??

Thank you in advance

She ruled against the DT interviewing the PT's psychiatrist, then Roux said he needed some time to confer before he rested so they adjourned until tomorrow morning. I think that was it.. other than Nel and Roux were invited into the Judge's chambers just before the camera cut away.

 

[Val1]

I thought about this also even without seeing the video first. With no control of body muscles, neck muscles, arms and limbs. A lifeless body is no easy task to pick up, it was part of military training.

Am I wrong or did he bring her into the hallway first before picking her up.

In his testimony he said he "battled" to get her out of the toilet, laid her down on the mat, tried to call for help on her cell then his iirc, then carried her downstairs. Imo, he didn't put his "legs" on until he was ready to carry her downstairs and some of the video seems to support that.

 

[Zinn]

I thought about this also even without seeing the video first. With no control of body muscles, neck muscles, arms and limbs. A lifeless body is no easy task to pick up, it was part of military training.

Am I wrong or did he bring her into the hallway first before picking her up.

I think he said he pulled Reeva into the bathroom (from the toilet room) before picking her up. As for the hallway, the one at the top of the stairs, I think he said he doesn't remember what he did when he reached the hallway and his memory kicks back in coming down the stairs. I wondered if maybe this was because he waited briefly in the hallway for the arrival of the Stipps, perhaps standing still or pacing. Or maybe walking back to the balcony to peek out after hearing the security vehicle pull up. There's a motion detector at that location in the hallway, so I wondered if his lack of memory for those moments was related to what could be perceived as a lack of urgency in bringing Reeva downstairs after reaching the hallway. Not based on the facts, just a thought I had.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[eimajjjj]

With no real evidence to discount several witnesses hearing woman's screams, nor to support OP screaming like a woman plus OP's abundance of contradictions and the general improbability of his whole defence, I get the feeling that Masipa and Nel are just going through the motions and wanting to speed the whole thing up to get to sentencing.

 

[Val1]

With no real evidence to discount several witnesses hearing woman's screams, nor to support OP screaming like a woman plus OP's abundance of contradictions and the general improbability of his whole defence, I get the feeling that Masipa and Nel are just going through the motions and wanting to speed the whole thing up to get to sentencing.

I hope so, though you can't discount her assessors, they may be more sympathetic to OP and rule in his favour. Going back to motive, perhaps it was about the house his family has tried to imply RS was going to move in with OP that he had just put a deposit on and iirc from testimony, had just signed paperwork for the morning of the 13th at one of his meetings. Perhaps she didn't want to move in with him after all because it was all happening too fast and she apparently was starting to realize he was not just the "sexy boy" she'd fallen for and wanted to slow things down while her career heated up. I imagine the rejection would anger OP, especially after having gone through more than a couple relationships in the last six months and from the sounds of it had told people he'd bought the house basically for her.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/10947355/The-luxury-home-Oscar-Pistorius-planned-to-buy-to-be-closer-to-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

 

[believe09]

With no real evidence to discount several witnesses hearing woman's screams, nor to support OP screaming like a woman plus OP's abundance of contradictions and the general improbability of his whole defence, I get the feeling that Masipa and Nel are just going through the motions and wanting to speed the whole thing up to get to sentencing.

Wouldn't that be nice?

In some of the current media, it appears that Nel asked Derman if he knew that OP could run backwards on his stumps. Derman indicated that he didn't know.
LINK HERE

In another clip, Pistorius walks backwards on his stumps, appearing to cast doubt on the defence claim the runner has limited mobility without wearing his prosthesis.
View gallery

State prosecutor Gerrie Nel (L) questions a witness on July 7, 2014 during the trial of South Africa …

"Can I just ask you then was it ever demonstrated to you that Mr Pistorius was able to walk backwards on his stumps?" said Nel.
"It was never demonstrated to me," said Derman

 

[Peliman]

Thanks, I'd forgot about the bathroom and toilet area being separate when I mentioned hallway. I've gone to viewing photos and it seems to me by the blood pattern she also was bleeding into the bathroom. Because of the blood patterns it looks like she was picked up from the bathroom floor. That's JMO

I didn't see a mat in the photos, maybe a towel.

The pics

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ius-fatally-shot-girlfriend-article-1.1740454

 

[believe09]

My point is that it seems likely to be reasonable if the judge discounts quite a bit of Derman's testimony. Given that his physician did not have a clear understanding of OP's mobility. JMO

 

[wb180]

With no real evidence to discount several witnesses hearing woman's screams, nor to support OP screaming like a woman plus OP's abundance of contradictions and the general improbability of his whole defence, I get the feeling that Masipa and Nel are just going through the motions and wanting to speed the whole thing up to get to sentencing.

Yea, lets go to sentencing. It has been a pretty crappy defense wasting time on smoke and mirrors than actual evidence in support of OP.

 

[james83]

And this circus is full of clowns.

Featuring Barry Roux and his amazing hall of (smoke and)Mirrors.

 

[jay-jay]

I'm so glad I didn't bother watching/listening to the trial today .. from what I've read here, what a load of totally irrelevant hogwash it has become over the past few weeks, I've never known anything like it .. it's just ridiculous that all this nonsense would be allowed in a court of law.

 

[G.bng]

I thought about this also even without seeing the video first. With no control of body muscles, neck muscles, arms and limbs. A lifeless body is no easy task to pick up, it was part of military training.

Am I wrong or did he bring her into the hallway first before picking her up.

Sorry to butt in, but do you mean the 4 or 5 part video or one of the promos? And if you mean the video are you in the land of Oz or outside of it? And if outside of Oz do you have a link to the videos? I have so far only found a site to find Part 1 accessible to the UK on Yahoo News and it starts already some minutes in. (I would include the link to that part 1 here if you haven't seen it but from posts it appears we are not allowed to post the links here. I could send you a PM with it if you want if you haven't seen it.) Thanx

 

[Peliman]

Sorry to butt in, but do you mean the 4 or 5 part video or one of the promos? And if you mean the video are you in the land of Oz or outside of it? And if outside of Oz do you have a link to the videos? I have so far only found a site to find Part 1 accessible to the UK on Yahoo News and it starts already some minutes in. (I would include the link to that part 1 here if you haven't seen it but from posts it appears we are not allowed to post the links here. I could send you a PM with it if you want if you haven't seen it.) Thanx

I've seen the promo and whats been released in pictures, I'm just speaking of how she was picked up vs. how he was picking up his sister. I pulled my link from youtube. Yes I'm in the U.S. and not seen the full video yet. If you have the full video pls message me.

 

[G.bng]

The point is that they had Wollie and the State had Mangena, just like they each have a psychiatrist, albeit assigned to them through/by the court. Did the State get to interview Wollie before they crossed him?

Just found your reply and too late now anyway, but just as a note, I am not sure there is a comparison between say Mangena and Wollie, firstly because if the State had not called Mangena the DT would have been entitled to call him themselves. At least that's the way I understand SA disclosure rules and Nel referred to this when he in an exchange he noted that Roux had the right to call Botha if he wanted. As far as I understand it for a fair trial the Defence is entitled to have all evidence the State holds, and more especially if it could favour the defence.

Anyway Masipa refused and I trust she must be right so If Roux really wants to consult with Kotze I suppose he could always change his mind and call Fine, in which case Nel will call Kotze and he could get there that way... or maybe not!

 

[Viper]

Oh my, I found the full video on YouTube. And since I love you all so much I will tell you how to find it. :smile: Go to YouTube and search for the title:

Oscar reenactment video broadcast - Sunday night 2014 07 06

Perhaps you should hurry though, in case the Pistorii have it pulled down! LOL!!!

 

[kaos]

Sorry to butt in, but do you mean the 4 or 5 part video or one of the promos? And if you mean the video are you in the land of Oz or outside of it? And if outside of Oz do you have a link to the videos? I have so far only found a site to find Part 1 accessible to the UK on Yahoo News and it starts already some minutes in. (I would include the link to that part 1 here if you haven't seen it but from posts it appears we are not allowed to post the links here. I could send you a PM with it if you want if you haven't seen it.) Thanx

I sent you a pm earlier today with links.

 

[whiterum]

Does anyone find an emotionless Pistorius posing as his dead girlfriend and recreating his own killing actions just the most, awful creepy thing in this mondo-trial? Where's his famous crying and vomiting?

And then we get to his adoring sister acting as the dead body... *shudder*

(It's so Oedipal, disappearing father, dead mother surrogate, disabled Oedipus who wrecks havoc on everything. I'm starting to miss the Stipps and Berger for that relatively calm, reasonable start of the LAST 13+ weeks :facepalm: )

I am sure Reeva's poor mum is totally disgusted with that video of her beloved daughter's killer and family member play-acting scenarios of her violent death. What was the purpose of this action, why would there be any need to physically re-enact something if it is based on truth. IMO there would be no need whatsoever but lying versions would certainly need to be tested before they become an object of expert scrutiny

 

[Interested Bystander]

Oh my, I found the full video on YouTube. And since I love you all so much I will tell you how to find it. :smile: Go to YouTube and search for the title:

Oscar reenactment video broadcast - Sunday night 2014 07 06

Perhaps you should hurry though, in case the Pistorii have it pulled down! LOL!!!

Unable to find it with that search string. Still looking though :tantrum: