Trial Discussion Thread #47 - 14.07.8, Day 38

[AJ_DS]

The DT thought the double taps would be advantageous to their case because:

1. It would minimize the opportunity for Reeva to scream and/or for OP to hear her scream between shots.

2. It would demonstrate how frightened he was that he fired in extreme rapid succession.

3. Four individual, deliberate trigger pulls are extremely hard to justify when there was no threat or attack on his life (perceived or not). The four shots through the closed door of a tiny room nail him for murder.

Rebuttal :

1. I agree

2. Not really… for someone who is not a professional with much training, shooting 2 double taps in a frightened state is simply not believable… if OP was a S.E.A.L. or S.A.S., it would be different, but he is a professional track athlete and an amateur gun enthusiast who is terrified and vulnerable… the double tap story could not hold water.

3. I agree, but 4 rapid shots or 2 double taps… no difference in intent or reasonable response… the only conclusion is murder

 

[Interested Bystander]

Maybe it's a SA thing… but I don't get the meaning of "rabbit things"… can anyone offer clarifications ?

I believe there is a sex toy referred to as a rabbit. Try Google Lol. Only a guess - I could be very wrong.

 

[Greater Than]

Maybe it's a SA thing… but I don't get the meaning of "rabbit things"… can anyone offer clarifications ?

Have sex like rabbits.

 

[AJ_DS]

I believe there is a sex toy referred to as a rabbit. Try Google Lol. Only a guess - I could be very wrong.

LOL… maybe

Could it be an autocorrect spoof or a spelling mistake : rabbit instead of rabid ?

RS to OP: It's like I see sex toys in your house and when we go places you take pics of them everywhere.

RS to OP: It's like I see rabid things in your house and when we go places you take pics of them everywhere.

 

[Val1]

Maybe it's a SA thing… but I don't get the meaning of "rabbit things"… can anyone offer clarifications ?

This was OP's explanation, personally I think it's got something to do with how his blades look like a rabbit's hind legs and they're both runners... no idea if any of his ex's had a rabbit fetish too though.

http://ewn.co.za/2014/04/08/Oscar-Pistorius-trial-Relationship-with-Reeva-Steenkamp-described

Pistorius reads about the “rabbit things” around his house.

He said it referred to little wood carvings of rabbits which he bought for friends as gifts and Steenkamp had asked about it.

 

[Greater Than]

Rebuttal :

1. I agree

2. Not really… for someone who is not a professional with much training, shooting 2 double taps in a frightened state is simply not believable… if OP was a S.E.A.L. or S.A.S., it would be different, but he is a professional track athlete and an amateur gun enthusiast who is terrified and vulnerable… the double tap story could not hold water.

3. I agree, but 4 rapid shots or 2 double taps… no difference in intent or reasonable response… the only conclusion is murder

The defense from the word go has been to throw anything and everything at the wall hoping some of it sticks.

 

[Val1]

Not likely IMO… but not impossible

Moller discovered that OP had 2 phones when he subpoenaed Vodacom and received 2 phone numbers for OP instead of the expected 1 number… if OP had 3 phones, Vodacom would have disclosed the 3rd one as well.

It's not hard to get a buy as you go disposable cell phone or set it up so it's not linked to your real address/number.... in fact, there's services on-line that provide this kind of service.

 

[AJ_DS]

This was OP's explanation, personally I think it's got something to do with how his blades look like a rabbit's hind legs and they're both runners... no idea if any of his ex's had a rabbit fetish too though.

http://ewn.co.za/2014/04/08/Oscar-Pistorius-trial-Relationship-with-Reeva-Steenkamp-described

Thanks… but I don't see that making sense in the context of the message, even less in the context of the conversation

RS to OP: It's like I see rabbit things in your house and when we go places you take pics of them everywhere. For me I'm thinking who do you have that connection with? And the same things will play on your mind. At the end of the day this is now not then

 

[AJ_DS]

It's not hard to get a buy as you go disposable cell phone or set it up so it's not linked to your real address/number.... in fact, there's services on-line that provide this kind of service.

I agree… the difficulty does not lie in the procurement of a secret phone but in maintaining the phone's existence a secret from the girlfriend and friends

 

[AJ_DS]

The defense from the word go has been to throw anything and everything at the wall hoping some of it sticks.

Indeed… pathetic but necessary considering the circumstance of RS's death, the overwhelming incriminating State evidence and the web of lies given by the accused

 

[Val1]

I'm not sure who you're referring to. Wasn't Sam Taylor the 5 year girlfriend (with a break in between)?

ETA: I forgot about VM lol.

Ok, I wasn't wrong... so did JE and VM overlap, or JE and ST, or VM and ST, or....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2279476/Oscar-Pistorius-Blade-runners-exes-online-war-words-tell-sides-superstar.html

But another ex-girlfriend, Jenna Edkins, yesterday defended the sporting star.

She took to Twitter to stress: ‘All I am saying is let him speak, let his side be heard without jumping to conclusions.’
Alan Taylor, former boyfriend of Reeva Steenkamp spoke of his grief online

Alan Taylor, former boyfriend of Reeva Steenkamp, spoke of his grief online

She offered ‘love and support’ to the Pistorius family and tweeted: ‘I have dated Oscar on and off for 5 YEARS, NOT ONCE has he EVER lifted a finger to me or made me fear for my life.’

 

[AJ_DS]

:bedtime:

 

[K.T]

This was OP's explanation, personally I think it's got something to do with how his blades look like a rabbit's hind legs and they're both runners... no idea if any of his ex's had a rabbit fetish too though.

http://ewn.co.za/2014/04/08/Oscar-Pistorius-trial-Relationship-with-Reeva-Steenkamp-described

Thanks for posting that link.

Most likely he sent rabbit carvings to female not male friends (if true). He seems to have a certain taste in categorized endearments - Sam Taylor was "little butterfly" as Nel mentioned in cross examination to the agent. Steenkamp was "Angel" etc.

Perhaps one of his previous was "little rabbit" or "bunny" and Steenkamp recognizing he was referring an ex-girlfriend in his photographing and collecting rabbits, causing friction.

 

[Val1]

I agree… the difficulty does not lie in the procurement of a secret phone but in maintaining the phone's existence a secret from the girlfriend and friends

Haha, I think it's more just keeping it from the "current" gf... some of his friends strike me more as OP's cheering section when it comes to guns or women.

 

[east2west]

Thanks for posting that link.

Most likely he sent rabbit carvings to female not male friends (if true). He seems to have a certain taste in categorized endearments - Sam Taylor was "little butterfly" as Nel mentioned in cross examination to the agent. Steenkamp was "Angel" etc.

Perhaps one of his previous was "little rabbit" or "bunny" and Steenkamp recognizing he was referring an ex-girlfriend in his photographing and collecting rabbits, causing friction.

I'm with you K.T. I doubt he bought the rabbit carvings for multiple friends, as he stated in that article. It doesn't make sense to purchase the same gift for several people and still have those carvings in your home, not having given them to those friends. I think the rabbit carvings were for ONE particular female whom he still had an emotional attachment. Either he had given them to her or vice versa. imo.

 

[Greater Than]

Thanks… but I don't see that making sense in the context of the message, even less in the context of the conversation

RS to OP: It's like I see rabbit things in your house and when we go places you take pics of them everywhere. For me I'm thinking who do you have that connection with? And the same things will play on your mind. At the end of the day this is now not then

That whole conversation was all over the place. She jumped from apologizing for smoking weed to announcing she's not a stripper to being upset that he has rabbit figures in his house and that he photographs other rabbit figures when they're out.

Maybe she was high when she texted that? :sponge:

 

[Greater Than]

Regarding bail during the appeal process, Ulrich Roux (SA attorney who contributes to the round table discussions on Oscar Channel 199) tweeted this in response to a question about it:

@ulrichroux: @MariMapulasa a convicted accused will have to re-apply for bail pending finalisation of his appeal.Full bail application to take place

https://twitter.com/ulrichroux/status/486796032379199488

 

[pandax81]

That whole conversation was all over the place. She jumped from apologizing for smoking weed to announcing she's not a stripper to being upset that he has rabbit figures in his house and that he photographs other rabbit figures when they're out.

Maybe she was high when she texted that? :sponge:

We must be reading another conversation! It makes perfect sense to me and appears very lucid.

At its core is yet another argument instigated by OP and Reeva patching it up.

OP is being suspicious and jealous about drug taking from Reeva's past and goes on to voice his insecurities about what she did when on them, Reeva points out it's the past and she has her own insecurities about OP's rabbit-related paraphernalia (obviously from a former relationship) to contend with, and she then addresses OP's concern directly - assuring him that while no prude, she never acted like a stripper or ho and the fun was harmless

 

[Interested Bystander]

I think she said rabbit things - not figures, not carvings, not anything specific. I feel she probably would have been more specific if it had been a rabbit ornaments. "Things" to me suggests she may have been unsure how to refer to whatever they were OR there were many "different things". OP seems to confirm that it was rabbit not rabid.

There is an online 'facility' on Gauteng called Randy Rabbits where one can date purely for sex - no strings attached. Maybe whoever gave him the "things" was suggesting he was "randy".

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is a very interesting Round Table discussion with Judge Greenland.

The reasonable/unreasonable disabled person

Part 1: Whether or not disabled persons are to be judged differently in a situation of claimed self-defence, real or imagined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn7LwJTZhxU

“ ... You would then be setting a standard for disabled people which is simply not reasonable. You’ll be saying that disabled people are just not reasonable. ... Whether it’s self-defence or whether it’s putative self-defence, you have to be under threat of imminent injury or death. When it’s self-defence it’s actual, when it’s putative it’s imagined. So for Oscar to be cleared, then the Court would have to set a standard saying “But this this doesn’t apply to disabled people. They’re not required to be reasonable”.


Part 2: The issue of the reasonable man test as regards a disabled person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6DO7b8PLmo