Trial Discussion Thread #48

[Zuri]

This is my take on OP's defense:

In the beginning, OP hears a noise and grabs his pistol. He's the man, so of course he has to protect his girlfriend, and since he's on his stumps, he feels vulnerable and has to protect himself. So in full protection mode, he chivalrously puts himself between Reeva and the danger. He hears movement, feels trapped inside his locked bedroom, so he "fires shots at the door," as specifically stated in his bail application. With no uncertainty, he intentionally fires at the door because, after all, he was protecting Reeva and himself and acting in self defense.

But then OP gets on the stand. He was terrified. He didn't aim. He didn't have time to think. Before he knew it he had fired four rounds of zombie stoppers into a tiny toilet cubicle. Nel asks, "You didn't intend to fire four shots into the door?" "No milady, I did not."

Oh dear.

Now Roux is forced to take a different route because his client doesn't even know what his own damn defense is.

Enter Vorster. Amputation of OP's lower legs was a "traumatic assault," losing his mother at age 14 was devastating, he has a higher level of concern regarding crime and his safety than the average South African, and he has GAD, which may have played a role in OP's actions the night he shot and killed Reeva.

GAD? Nel is all over this like white on rice. He wants OP immediately sent to a mental health institution for a psychiatric evaluation.

Whoops.

NO! NO! NO! Roux objects! He argues in vain against the referral.

No dice. Referral approved.

30 days later - No GAD! No mental disorder! No diminished capacity!

Uh oh. Now what? Roux needs to figure out another way to support OP's testimony.

In comes OP's sports doctor, who treats the court to a thorough explanation of the startle/fight/flight/freeze response, which is unequivocally the length of the average doctoral dissertation. Is his purpose to confuse the court? Who knows! But he reinforces how vulnerable OP is and how he's easily startled, so it's working well enough. But then, when Nel asks him why he thinks OP shot at the door, he replies, "To nullify the threat."

Geeze Louise! That's clear intent!

Oh well. Roux is out of options, so he rests his case.

Thank you for posting this! By simply taking it all down to basics, you very aptly explained his defense in a nutshell.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Poor Oscar.

According to the psychologist’s report, OP suffers from “agoraphobia”.

Uh-huh.

Must have been excruciating for him the other night at the 300 square meter VIP Room. Being dragged away from his reclusive Bible study/prayers/Reeva photo shrine by his annoying, inconsiderate cousin. How could she do that to him?!

Poor Oz must have been all sweaty and panicky and anxious and hyper-vigilant and hyper-ventilating and well, so terribly “GAD”-y ... surrounded by claustrophobic throngs of 100's of screaming, laughing, drunk, scantily-clad females, uh, party-goers! What an awful nightmare!

And we won’t even talk about the Olympics, Paralympics, international competitions, interviews and glossy photo shoots all over the globe - all those wide open spaces, crowds, endless traveling and adoring fans!

Poor dear. So very brave.

 

[Val1]

OT A little Levity (apropos the feeling we have that money talks)

The Heavenly Banker

Following a distinguished financial career in the City, a man arrived at the Gates of Heaven, accompanied by the Pope who had the misfortunate to expire on the same day. The Pope was greeted first by St Peter, who escorted him to his quarters. The room was somewhat shabby and small, similar to that found in a cheap two-star hotel. The banker was then taken to his room, which was a palatial suite including a private swimming pool in a garden and a terrace overlooking the Gates.

The banker was somewhat taken aback and told St Peter, “I’m really quite surprised at these rooms, seeing as how the Pope was given such grotty accommodation.”

St Peter replied, “Popes are two a penny; we’ve got over a hundred of them here but we’ve never had a banker before.”


Mods please remove if unacceptable

Speaking of bankers... if you follow that link from jay-jay http://za.linkedin.com/pub/ryan-chaitowitz/73/131/705 then do a search on that site for Carl Pistorius,http://za.linkedin.com/pub/carl-pistorius-rc-mining-and-consultants/80/82a/a78, there sure seem to be a lot of interesting names listed under "also viewed" that are involved with Investec and not just as customers. Imo, it's another example of it's not what you know but who you know(it also reminds me of the Amway business model or that business that TA had been a salesman for).

 

[Val1]

Ahh I missed the 'if' in that sentence, thanks for your reply. What is disturbing is his spontaneous answers to Nel's questions, whether it's a little bit of the truth coming out or to suit the states case. I strongly believe that Reeva was threatening to call the police/security before he killed her. As far as Oscar was concerned whatever happened between them that night could NOT get out to the public, just like the other gun charges against him.

Exactly, thus RS became the intruder he was so afraid of, I'm sure she had both experienced and learned enough about him after 3-4 months that she could have destroyed his "brand" which was/is so important to him. In actuality, no matter what she knew and could have ratted him out for, he was responsible for it, just like he's responsible for killing her, whether he wants to admit it or not.

 

[Val1]

OK, I found the metadata on that first image .. Equipmake and Equipmodel relate to the camera/equipment used to take the image .. it has nothing to do with a modelling agency!

From the form under the pic it appears he may have listed a vehicle on one of those car sites that they supposedly had been looking at, just my impression anyway.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Memmory and Mortimer incidents compared:

1. Pistorius claimed Memmory was drunk, "abusive", in a fight with another partygoer she later kicked his door repeatedly and injured her foot herself. This is the opposite of what Memmory claimed and she won the out-of-court settlement.
2. “Pistorius says [about Memmory aggression incident] that he had felt threatened, humiliated, scared and vulnerable because of the complaint, arrest and being in custody.” His two friends claimed the police were “incompetent”. (Hello, pattern)
3. Johan Stander did interviews to defend Pistorius version in the press in 2009: (Hello, Stander)

1. Pistorius team claims Mortimer was the "aggressor", abusive, "aggressively interrogating the accused". This is the opposite of what Mortimer said that happened.
2. Pistorius was feeling “loneliness and alienation” compared to "attention seeking" and "peddling untruths designed for maximum attention and maximum damage" Mortimer. Pistorius and his cousin were in a ‘quiet booth’ until they were inflicted with ‘unwelcome attention’.
3. Uncle Leo and PR rep Annalise Burgess defend Pistorius and rush to the press after their ‘investigation’.

Neither of these Pistorius defenders in 2009 or 2014 were at the incidents but did engage the press and say possibly libelous comments against Memmory and Mortimer.

Exactly. Everyone else is always a liar.

Excellent summation, K.T! Keep up the great work!

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Oscar is clearly a danger to himself and society (guns, alcohol and anger are always a terrible mix) - courtesy of his own family and massive, self-serving PR machine. Their tender, loving “protections”, denials, cover-ups and excuses through the years have allowed him to escape ALL consequences for his boorish, aggressive, reckless behaviors. They created the narcissistic, entitled monster who killed Reeva Steenkamp.

The family’s boilerplate, one-size-fits-all public response - OP’s an innocent angel, no matter what he says or does! Everyone’s a liar out to get him! - is extremely telling. In fact, the wholesale covering for and shielding of Golden Boy OP is a very sick family dynamic.

The family’s enabling has now become LETHAL.

I think he's been treated this way, more or less, his entire life. He says he was never treated differently than anyone else - but he very clearly was...especially after becoming a track star. Massive sponsorships mean 100% positive PR - no lie is too big or too small to maintain The Golden Oscar Pistorius Brand. That means that by default, anyone not staunchly on OP’s side automatically becomes the enemy - even if they’re telling the 100% truth. The guy's 27 years old and they still treat him like he's 3.

Seriously, the entire family and PR machine should be indicted as accessories to murder.

 

[Val1]

Oscar is clearly a danger to himself and society (guns, alcohol and anger are always a terrible mix) - courtesy of his own family and massive, self-serving PR machine. Their tender, loving “protections”, denials, cover-ups and excuses through the years have allowed him to escape ALL consequences for his boorish, aggressive, reckless behaviors. They created the narcissistic, entitled monster who killed Reeva Steenkamp.

The family’s boilerplate, one-size-fits-all public response - OP’s an innocent angel, no matter what he says or does! Everyone’s a liar out to get him! - is extremely telling. In fact, the wholesale covering for and shielding of Golden Boy OP is a very sick family dynamic.

The family’s enabling has now become LETHAL.

I think he's been treated this way, more or less, his entire life. He says he was never treated differently than anyone else - but he very clearly was...especially after becoming a track star. Massive sponsorships mean 100% positive PR - no lie is too big or too small to maintain The Golden Oscar Pistorius Brand. That means that by default, anyone not staunchly on OP’s side automatically becomes the enemy - even if they’re telling the 100% truth. The guy's 27 years old and they still treat him like he's 3.

Seriously, the entire family and PR machine should be indicted as accessories to murder.

bbm - I'm still wondering if there's provision for that yet to happen to those who "assisted" with stealing and hiding evidence from the crime scene?

 

[luvmygarden]

Do we know for a fact that he even needs prescription glasses? I did some searching and all I found were pics of him wearing sunglasses from one of his now ex sponsors and only one pic before the court case where he's wearing a pair of what appear to be regular glasses, worn for his apology after being a poor loser... , although they could have been one of those newer sunglasses that change hue depending on the light. If there's no proof he actually needs a prescription, I'm betting he's just wearing reading glasses to make it easier to see his texts and/or notes while he sits in court all day(although I've seen at least one court pic where he appears to be wearing them quite high on his nose and looking under them at whatever it was) and that it makes him look more vulnerable(aka nerdish) certainly doesn't hurt since that's basically his defense...

If he wears contacts some u can wear up to a week. My daughter has those. I have gas perm so I have to take them out every night. Another thought there are glasses that have camera and video capabilities. I laughed to myself thinking maybe he is recording testimony so he knows where to change up his story. Lol

 

[Lux et Veritas]

So, poor beleagered Roux can’t round up any more witnesses? LOL

Could it be because Oscar threw EVERYONE under the bus, including his own advocate, with his self-serving, accusatory lies on the stand? It’s clear Oscar has no loyalty to anyone except himself.

(Payback's a mamacita, ain't it, Oz?)

Mr. Roux gets paid exactly the same, whether OP wins or loses! (And then there’s always the appeal!! Yay!!!)

I think it’s pretty clear that all those defense witnesses who refused to testify did so for other reasons than not wanting their testimony recorded or broadcast (with court privacy options available, no other witnesses had a problem).

I think the truth is that Roux cannot find any other witnesses to LIE on Oscar’s behalf.

They know his story is pure bullsh#t and refuse to be a part of his lie. Remember, most of his witnesses were paid “experts” - I use the term very loosely...oh, and one smitten volunteer/groupie.

People who 100% respect you and believe in your innocence do NOT refuse to get on the stand and support you during a murder trial for your life.

This ain’t Judge Masipa’s first rodeo.

Oscar’s screwed.

 

[Greater Than]

So, poor beleagered Roux can’t round up any more witnesses? LOL

Could it be because Oscar threw EVERYONE under the bus, including his own advocate, with his self-serving, accusatory lies on the stand? It’s clear Oscar has no loyalty to anyone except himself.

(Payback's a mamacita, ain't it, Oz?)

Mr. Roux gets paid exactly the same, whether OP wins or loses! (And then there’s always the appeal!! Yay!!!)

I think it’s pretty clear that all those defense witnesses who refused to testify did so for other reasons than not wanting their testimony recorded or broadcast (with court privacy options available, no other witnesses had a problem).

I think the truth is that Roux cannot find any other witnesses to LIE on Oscar’s behalf.

They know his story is pure bullsh#t and refuse to be a part of his lie. Remember, most of his witnesses were paid “experts” - I use the term very loosely...oh, and one smitten volunteer/groupie.

People who 100% respect you and believe in your innocence do NOT refuse to get on the stand and support you during a murder trial for your life.

This ain’t Judge Masipa’s first rodeo.

Oscar’s screwed.

BBM - There actually were two problems very early in the trial. Berger asked that her image not be be televised, so while audio of her testimony was broadcasted, a local TV station displayed a photo of her they had gotten from the website of the university where she works. Milady was not pleased.

A day or two later, Roux read Johnson's cell phone number aloud in court. When Johnson continued his testimony the next day, he told the court that he had been inundated with abusive phone calls from OP supporters.

I agree that the claim of DT witnesses refusing to testify because the trial was broadcasted is a crock, but there were, in fact, a couple of issues.

 

[Greater Than]

THIS is how “brokenhearted”, “depressed”, “anxious”, “agoraphobic” and “suicidal” Oscar Pistorius really is!

THIS is where he went on July 12 2014. The VIP Room. Take a look at the “den of social inequity” Oscar partied at that night. Slick. Seductive.

Introducing The VIP Room Sandton Jun 25, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Q7JEroefA

“The VIP Room introduces a new Era of exclusivity, set to alter the landscape of Johannesburg's nightlife.
A combination of bold style, laid back glamour and the chicest entertainment.
This is the new den of social inequity, a haven for the cities most beautiful and high profile movers and shakers.”

Wait, what?!! Where’s the Bible-Prayer Meetings, Oz?!!

(Remember Mr. Church-Boy wailing, puking and clutching his rosary beads in court?)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/06/article-2574536-1C143D1200000578-18_634x423.jpg

Appears that OP was prowling for some female action - or hellz, any action. Let the ladies, liquor and good times roll! Hallelujah!

But dang it, he just could not help himself - aggressive, lying, insulting people just piss him off invading his privacy and solitude so, of course, he was vulnerable and terrified and had to get in their face! But it totally was NOT his fault - he was choking on that blasted "GAD" and had to wash it down with lots of Grey Goose Vodka! Threats! Fights! Just like old times! Oscar Pistorius never backs down! Oscar Pistorius always wins!

Ugh - come Sunday morning and the freaking media, it was public penance time - post Three Mea-Culpa Hail Marys on @OscarPistorius.
I’m a very good boy.
Amen.

You've gotta be class A-STUPID to go to a club and get into a scuffle when you're out on bail during your murder trial. I sincerely hope this incident is brought up when he reapplies for bail while his awaits his appeals. You can't outlaw stupid, but you can certainly throw the book at it. MOO

 

[Lux et Veritas]

bbm - I'm still wondering if there's provision for that yet to happen to those who "assisted" with stealing and hiding evidence from the crime scene?

Exactly. I'm still wondering what was done to OP's personal cell phone while the family had it for 10 DAYS before they turned it in to the police. It was at the CRIME SCENE and they removed it! That's got to be a serious, chargeable offense, but being SA, who knows.

Worse, Defense/OP whined about police messing with the crime scene! LOL Unfreakingreal.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Poor Oscar.

According to the psychologist’s report, OP suffers from “agoraphobia”.

Uh-huh.

Must have been excruciating for him the other night at the 300 square meter VIP Room. Being dragged away from his reclusive Bible study/prayers/Reeva photo shrine by his annoying, inconsiderate cousin. How could she do that to him?!

Poor Oz must have been all sweaty and panicky and anxious and hyper-vigilant and hyper-ventilating and well, so terribly “GAD”-y ... surrounded by claustrophobic throngs of 100's of screaming, laughing, drunk, scantily-clad females, uh, party-goers! What an awful nightmare!

And we won’t even talk about the Olympics, Paralympics, international competitions, interviews and glossy photo shoots all over the globe - all those wide open spaces, crowds, endless traveling and adoring fans!

Poor dear. So very brave.

It makes one realise how he took those "nice doctors" at Westkoppies for 'a very long ride'.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

It makes one realise how he took those "nice doctors" at Westkoppies for 'a very long ride'.

I think you are exactly right, IB.

OP once described himself as "addicted to perfection", both off the track as well as on. It's clear he's also craves total control but more than anything, he must WIN. He's just the kind of extreme, driven personality who can and will do anything to stay on top.

Even psychologists and psychiatrists are not infallible. (How many have cleared prisoners to be paroled and released who went on to commit more crimes?) Yes, they have extensive training but they, like everyone else, are only human.

I must wonder how much, if at all, their final report was influenced by personal bias, however small. OP certainly does have charm, humor and charisma when he wants to turn it on. Star-struck eyes could very well have skewed that report, however slightly, in OP's favor.

IMO he's clearly a narcissist with severe anger and control issues. If he wasn't he'd never be in the mess he's in today.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I think you are exactly right, IB.

OP once described himself as "addicted to perfection", both off the track as well as on. It's clear he's also craves total control but more than anything, he must WIN. He's just the kind of extreme, driven personality who can and will do anything to stay on top.

Even psychologists and psychiatrists are not infallible. (How many have cleared prisoners to be paroled and released who went on to commit more crimes?) Yes, they have extensive training but they, like everyone else, are only human.

I must wonder how much, if at all, their final report was influenced by personal bias, however small. OP certainly does have charm, humor and charisma when he wants to turn it on. Star-struck eyes could very well have skewed that report, however slightly, in OP's favor.

IMO he's clearly a narcissist with severe anger and control issues. If he wasn't he'd never be in the mess he's in today.

the-pistorius-diagnosis-experts-got-it-wrong

http://www.commdiginews.com/sports/the-pistorius-diagnosis-experts-got-it-wrong-20767/

 

[Interested Bystander]

the-pistorius-diagnosis-experts-got-it-wrong

http://www.commdiginews.com/sports/the-pistorius-diagnosis-experts-got-it-wrong-20767/

Colonel Mustard, I hope you won't mind but I have shortened the address so that it is easy to go directly to the report.

Very interesting and, at a guess, what most of us believe.

Many moons ago worked alongside 3 psychiatrists, 2 of whom I considered (as did many of the doctors at the hospital) more than a tad bizarre in their interpretations and made enormous allowances for their patients. In fact, some of us wondered whether in fact they needed to see a psychiatrist themselves. The other was spot on. I appreciate that all three were trying to help but sometimes the conclusions of the two were quite worrisome.

 

[WilliamMunter]

.. also, don't forget, we have still to find out who the 'mystery man' was, one of whom's messages with a pic flashed up on the screen as they were going through Reeva's final What'sApp messages ..

View attachment 55124

Looks very much like Francois Hougaard to me.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Speaking of FH

Quote
Francois Hougaard - 'tasteless' comments on new girlfriend
"Chelsea is way more beautiful than any of my previous girlfriends. I definitely made an upgrade"

The comment drew criticism from many for being "tasteless" and "tacky", as he was previously linked to the late Reeva Steenkamp, shortly before she began dating Oscar Pistorius

http://www.all4women.co.za/entertai...hougaard-tasteless-comments-on-new-girlfriend

 

[AJ_DS]

Are we hazing AJ_DS? Why wasn't I informed? It's my turn next, isn't it? ISN'T IT?

Sure, why not… go nuts !




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