Trial Discussion Thread #48

[Lux et Veritas]

BBM1: In the law business, around here anyways, these "expert" witnesses are called "*advertiser censored*."

BBM2: Plus Roux had to keep switching strategies in the middle of his game. No wonder he had a few days there that they had to adjourn early because he didn't have any witnesses available (or did witnesses back out?).

*advertiser censored* is exactly right. (Although, no doubt, there are exceptions with integrity.)

You have to wonder if Roux regrets taking this case. Nah. Mega-big defense attorneys live for this stuff. With this client from hell, Roux has certainly earned every single Rand. If I were him, I’d tack on a 25% fee to compensate him for having to keep up with all of OP’s whiny, bizarre, loose-cannon bullsh#t. And another 25% fee for throwing him under the bus. Don’t you know that Roux has wanted to beat the living daylights out of Oscar? LOL

Considering many public supporters have now turned against him (including some of his own friends) is it any wonder that most rational people do not want to be associated with OP’s defense, so refuse to testify? What does that say about your defense when you can’t round up enough willing people to speak on your client’s behalf? LOL That alone says volumes about this case and Oscar Pistorius - his story is utter trash.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

BIB - I think the opposite. Criminal defense attorneys who are able to get their guilty as sin clients off, even if on a mere technicality, are the most sought after. Their reputations rely on winning, not for defending innocent people.

Whether Roux thinks OP is guilty or not, he is absolutely not trying to blow this case. It's far better for his reputation to win (i.e. OJ's "dream team") than for him to intentionally get his client convicted because of his personal moral conscious. Not only that, if OP can prove his DT failed to properly defend him, it's grounds for a mistrial. Roux would never risk that.

MOO

What you say is very true, Greater.

Although, I must say, considering Roux’s utterly dreadful, ill-prepared (i.e. no written reports, etc.), amateurish, contradictory “experts”, one does wonder what his true intentions are. Seriously, this is the best he could come up with?!

Could Roux be the very first defense attorney to stealthily help send his client to prison? LOL I’m not sure OP would ever have grounds for such a mistrial - hasn’t Roux aggressively played every bad card Oscar has dealt him, over and over, valiantly trying to keep up with every new twist and whiny “defense” spewed by his client on the stand? He has - and all personal bias aside, I must give him full credit for that.

 

[soozieqtips]

He was hired by the DT. He's part of the defense team even they don't call him.

The PT had their own expert pathologist - Saayman. He revealed during testimony that both he and the DT pathologist (Dr. Perumal) agreed on his interpretation of the evidence when they attended the autopsy together.

A colleague of that star pathologist reportedly said that he had heard Perumal refused to alter his version. (OT but coincidentally, when Nel kept grilling Wolmarans on whether or not he had filed an earlier report and then added to it after the trial began, Wolmarans said, "I was never asked to amend my report to suit the DT's case." Nel never made that suggestion, so by him offering it, it suggests that they actually did.) MOO

BBM - Like when OP said he went upstairs to fetch Reeva's bag, and then just happened to mention he 'didn't go through it' - when it was never suggested he did.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I think it's definitely an example of tailoring. His bail application (and/or his plea statement?) specifically said he went "onto" the balcony, but then changed his version to the fans being half in the room/half on the balcony, making him not go out onto the balcony at all.

I think this was changed because if he actually went out onto the balcony, he would've had to turn around to bring the fans in. Turning around gives him a clear view of the bed, and he needed to keep his back to the room the whole time for his story to work. Having the fans lodged between the balcony doors allows him to grab them and just twist his body to place them inside.

MOO

Exactly. Also - and this is very important - by avoiding going "onto" the LIGHTED balcony, OP also avoids seeing the LADDERS directly below his bedroom window (which "Mr. Super-Security-Conscious" already knew!).

And even worse...OP never did explain WHY he brought in the fan(s), CLOSED the doors and pulled the drapes since it was so very HOT that night. Totally illogical!

 

[katydid23]

BBM: If that is true, wouldn't we have heard about more empty shells laying around?

OP had plenty of time to clean up.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I do not think OP’s “check” the balcony was any innocent slip of the tongue. (The subconscious always attempts to tell the truth, i.e. Freudian slip.)

He didn’t “check” the balcony for Reeva. He did check the balcony after the shooting to yell HelpX3 (his cover for Reeva’s screams for HelpX3 - no, it was ME screaming!) He checked the balcony to see which neighbors’ lights were on and who was up.

Worse of all, in his damning story, he not only runs to the balcony to yell for “help” (seriously?) - but first calls his friend Stander instead of Netcare/Police. Who the f##k does that???

Someone who wants their victim to die and needs time to formulate a story and manipulate the crime scene.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

From my notes: The autopsy, pathologist Saayman testified that RS "was wearing a sleeveless black top and grey Nike shorts." OP testified that these were his clothes.

Mmm...a tantalizing, damning little fact.

WHY was she wearing HIS clothes???

Jeans on the bedroom floor (inside out?). NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED THIS.
Jeans on the ground outside below the bathroom window. NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED THIS.

Could it be that Reeva was indeed trying to get dressed to leave after a vicious, prolonged (physical?) fight?

Was OP aggressively trying to stop her - blocking all access to her jeans, overnight bag and the bedroom doors - finally grabbing his 9mm to enforce his will?

Did she very quickly grab a tank and shorts from his drawer and run into the safety of the bathroom to dress? (Remember, if he was on his stumps, she would have been much faster than him.)

 

[Lux et Veritas]

OK, I'm totally clueless! LOL

What do "BBM" and "BIB" mean?

 

[eimajjjj]

OK, I'm totally clueless! LOL

What do "BBM" and "BIB" mean?

bold by me/bit in bold

My turn to be clueless. Where/when did we learn about jeans outside the bathroom window? Not sure how I missed that!

 

[foxbluff]

When there are multiple charges, can you be considered a first time offender on all of them? Just something I've never thought about before.

Great question, Cher!! IDK the answer about the 4 Counts of gun charges, but I'll speculate.

Imho since the Judge hasn't addressed these charges, then she currently sees them as allegations only.

Assuming OP is a first time offender, I think that when she rules on Count 1... and assuming she finds him guilty... his punishment will be a fine.

Now, when she addresses the additional Counts, she's judge those on the basis that OP is a repeat offender. moo

 

[Cherwell]

Great question, Cher!! IDK the answer about the 4 Counts of gun charges, but I'll speculate.

Imho since the Judge hasn't addressed these charges, then she currently sees them as allegations only.

Assuming OP is a first time offender, I think that when she rules on Count 1... and assuming she finds him guilty... his punishment will be a fine.

Now, when she addresses the additional Counts, she's judge those on the basis that OP is a repeat offender. moo

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by the BIB.

 

[foxbluff]

Mmm...a tantalizing, damning little fact.

WHY was she wearing HIS clothes???

Jeans on the bedroom floor (inside out?). NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED THIS.
Jeans on the ground outside below the bathroom window. NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED THIS.

Could it be that Reeva was indeed trying to get dressed to leave after a vicious, prolonged (physical?) fight?

Was OP aggressively trying to stop her - blocking all access to her jeans, overnight bag and the bedroom doors - finally grabbing his 9mm to enforce his will?

Did she very quickly grab a tank and shorts from his drawer and run into the safety of the bathroom to dress? (Remember, if he was on his stumps, she would have been much faster than him.)

Another one of those puzzles I fear we'll never know the answer to.

IIRC OP stated that when he arrived home RS had already changed into her pajamas. By pajamas, I assume he's talking about his clothes which she was wearing when she died. Lots of girls like to sleep in their boyfriend's t-shirt when they're always from him, but I seriously doubt RS was planning on sleeping in that outfit that night.

My guess has always been that RS and OP most likely were in the habit of sleeping in the buff. OP referring to that outfit as "pajamas" imo is him again, once more, trying to show that they had gone to bed that night. moo

 

[eimajjjj]

After the break, when Prof. Derman et al take the stand, OP seems to have adopted a wonderful new sense of humour and can't stop chuckling and smirking to himself and at Nel, sometimes even chortling as he rocks his head back.

I'm guessing he's either upped his medication or it's an example of a narcissist's curtain call.

 

[foxbluff]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by the BIB.

Sorry... that's my way of saying that she has not yet "judged" the gun charges.

 

[geevee]

BIB I thought her clothes would play an important role in this trial, especially as the survellience footage of her arriving at the estate seems to show she is wearing very similar clothing to what she was wearing the night she was killed. For whatever reason, I don't believe Nel made much of it.

I was surprised Nel didn't make more of it either, esp. when OP said during cross exam that Reeva was in her pajamas when he got home around 6:00 p.m. (I mentioned which trial day/time up thread), so how did she get back into the clothing she arrived in?

 

[soozieqtips]

I was surprised Nel didn't make more of it either, esp. when OP said during cross exam that Reeva was in her pajamas when he got home around 6:00 p.m. (I mentioned which trial day/time up thread), so how did she get back into the clothing she arrived in?

BIB - OP said Reeva was doing yoga before they both went to 'sleep', so if that were true (and who the hell knows anymore), then it's possible she changed out of her pyjamas (if she ever had them on) and into something more suitable. But would she have gone to 'sleep' in the same clothes that she was doing yoga in? I doubt it.

 

[Cherwell]

Sorry... that's my way of saying that she has not yet "judged" the gun charges.

But how would we know? You said that she hadn't "addressed" them - well, she wouldn't be sharing her thoughts with anybody but the two assessors.
I wouldn't expect to hear anything from the judge until the summing-up (where appropriate) except for points of order and clarification.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

OP’s #1 Fairytale: Brought in fans - closed doors/drapes.

His entire story depends on this one premise.

I woke up later because it was humid and hot. I rubbed my face. Reeva asked if I could sleep. I couldn’t, says OP.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...VE-UPDATES-Day-20-Pistorius-on-trial-20140410

This is a straight-up LIE on its face.

He needed some excuse - any excuse - to get up and close those curtains.

It was hot and humid - most everyone in the neighborhood had their bedroom windows OPEN (including Carice Stander). To close doors and stop cool circulating air on such a night is patently illogical.

Here’s the problem.

Oscar NEVER, at any point, brought in fans or closed the doors and drapes - they were OPEN the entire time. In fact, I submit that the bathroom window was already open to allow full cross-ventilation.

That’s why ear witnesses heard all that they did!

When OP went to yell Help from the balcony he didn’t even need to go out onto the balcony - the doors were already OPEN (the balcony light ON)! This also perfectly explains why - even though the big fan was directly in front of the doors - he did not trip over that fan or anything else.

Bottom line - OP had to concoct a story to first

1) “CLOSE” the doors/drapes (“pitch black”, “intruder” “terror”)

then

2) “OPEN” the doors/drapes to loudly play the terrified, wailing, grieving victim (and cover for Reeva’s Helps as his own and check to see which neighbors’ lights were on).

This scenario and sequence of events explains his bizarre, impossible story, his calculated deceit, his muddled, vague, evasive, conflicting, contradictory, self-damning testimony.

Oscar Pistorius is a desperately bad liar. A cold-blooded murderer.

 

[Cherwell]

Re "pyjamas".

I never really know what constitutes pyjamas nowadays. When I was a kid pyjamas were invariably a matching set: trouser-type bottoms with a matching top, either jacket-style or pullover (like a sweatshirt). Or those awful "baby doll" sets which were basically a frilly or lacy top with matching knickers.

But from what I see in the shops, etc, they can be anything now. Jogging pants, T shirts, vests, shorts, anything goes and they don't usually match. They are usually something that you could get away with wearing out of the house.

I can't stand wearing clothes in bed unless it really is exceedingly cold, so my experience is quite limited, but pyjamas aren't what they used to be AFAICS.

 

[katydid23]

I do not think OP’s “check” the balcony was any innocent slip of the tongue. (The subconscious always attempts to tell the truth, i.e. Freudian slip.)

He didn’t “check” the balcony for Reeva. He did check the balcony after the shooting to yell HelpX3 (his cover for Reeva’s screams for HelpX3 - no, it was ME screaming!) He checked the balcony to see which neighbors’ lights were on and who was up.

Worse of all, in his damning story, he not only runs to the balcony to yell for “help” (seriously?) - but first calls his friend Stander instead of Netcare/Police. Who the f##k does that???

Someone who wants their victim to die and needs time to formulate a story and manipulate the crime scene.

And why didn't he call Frank, who was apparently sleeping right next to the kitchen?