Trial Discussion Thread #48

[kittychi]

It was only supposed to be a video for a cartoon re enactment according to OP's sources.
...but they also have said that this piece should have aired after the trial. Nike should sue :happydance:.

Only if, when they dropped him, they paid him NOT to wear their brand. Companies have done this (see "Coach" "Abercrombie" and "Jersey Shore" lol).

 

[kittychi]

“Oscar Pistorius is a professing Evangelical Christian, who grew up in a Christian home.

‘I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. I execute each strike with intent. I beat my body and make it my slave...’
I execute each strike with intent. No doubt about that either.

His late mother, Sheila, a devout Christian wrote him the following letter:

'The real loser is never the person who crosses the finishing line last. The real loser is the person who sits on the side. The person who does not even try to compete.'

No, the real loser is the fraud who pretends to be what he is not, and worse, deprives others of being who they are. On the race track, and in life. The real fraud borrows authority from a fraudulent religion and claims that fraud to be ‘good’. All fraud does is debase people’s lives. If you made a conscious decision to debase (which means demean, humiliate, disgrace, dishonour, lower) another person’s life, you could do worse than shooting them 4 times, or cheating them, and then claiming – falsely – that you mistook them for a burglar. Is it fair to demand your place in the sun only to shove someone else into the dirt, and they will never see the sun or the sky again?"
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Oscar-Pistorius-has-cheated-someone-of-her-right-to-live-20130215

The whole article is worth reading.

Wow, thank you, Judgejudi. That is one I had never seen before; how utterly ironic. To me, this story just feels more and more Greek tragedy-like.

Some of the comments after the areticle are interesting, too.

 

[BritsKate]

I'd really ask anyone following this case who believes Oscar's actions are reasonable because of his disability if they live/care for someone disabled. It's exactly because of that I personally find it so implausible.

My husband (now lovingly referred to as Speed Racer, as a way of making him now being wheelchair bound tolerable) is obviously vulnerable but its difficult, in my opinion, to fully comprehend this from an able-bodied POV with no day to day experience of disability.

If we're going to accept that someone's disability invokes a heightened level of fear, then to my mind we also have to concede that someone's physical limitations would still rule supreme. So...why would someone disabled and vulnerable approach an unknown threat when he had other opportunities available to him? And that's where his vulnerability all falls apart for me. He very literally went out of his way to confront the unknown - unaided by even his prosthetics.

My husband recently got his wheel stuck in a rut on the pavement down the road. His only option was to ring me to come help him out. He sat there for awhile, trying to get out himself, and sat still waiting several minutes for me. And had anything happened - a random mugging, some drunk yob, a car jumping the kerb - my husband truly would have been utterly helpless. So right or wrong, reasonable or not, callous or not, Oscar's level of vulnerability and his actions as a result fly in the face of the vulnerability I witness daily.

JMO and FWIW

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[jay-jay]

I believe this person of #Oscar Pistorius needs to be put out from the community & given plenty time to think about his unacceptable, dangerous thoughts & actions against society! It goes without saying that it’s beyond despicable to use disability as an excuse to exert deadly force on a defenceless woman or anyone else for that matter. What convinced me Oscar is truly dangerous is words like “I wish Reeva had screamed & let me know where she was”, SERIOUSLY??, and to deny the blood curdling screams of a fatally wounded person 3m from you is just beyond EVIL! True love is not shielding someone from the bad consequences of their questionable behaviour. If Oscar’s family loves him at all they will want to make sure he gets the help he so desperately needs.
- Emerald

http://everyafricanwoman.com/?p=1608

Geezus, the man is vile. At least four solid, credible ear witnesses DID hear her scream!

That’s right. Oscar is essentially even blaming Reeva for her own death!

OP has thrown literally EVERYONE (including his mother and Roux) under the bus.

I expect God is next. Look for bitter God-tweets from @oscarpistorius between Nel's closing arguments and Masipa’s verdict.

Wonder if Oz will tweet from prison? LOL

Absolutely *lovin* your posts, Lux!

I wonder if he is thinking that the longer all this can be strung out, the more likely it is people are going to forgive him/he will be let off, on the basis of 'time being the great healer'. Well, in the UK there are a fair amount of celebrities (Stuart Hall, Rolf Harris, etc, etc) who are now being held to account for past misdeeds .. time should make not one jot of difference .. Pistorius executed and mutilated a beautiful young woman, with so much ahead of her, he has to pay for that and he has to pay for that in this lifetime, not in some kind of afterlife by a god that he uses to make himself look humble and who although he asserts his belief in his god, he doesn't seem to have any fear about being judged by him, hence I don't believe he believes in his god quite as much as he asserts he does.

 

[Greater Than]

There appear to be LOTS of nervous, anxious people in South Africa. How come the vast majority of them have never committed murder?

I’m very curious as to how you arrived at the conclusion that OP’s actions were reasonable. You’re saying that a reasonable man would not expect to hear noise from the bathroom when his GIRLFRIEND is sharing his bed and house?!!! Why would OP automatically first assume it was an “intruder”??? It’s impossibly bizarre.

Being young does not excuse one from murder.
Living in SA does not excuse one from murder.
Having a disability does not automatically excuse one from murder.

Remember, throughout his entire life, right up until Feb. 14, 2013, Oscar himself categorically deniedbeing disabled. Now he cowers behind his “disability”.

One cannot pick and choose when one’s disabled or not, whenever it’s convenient.

BIB - Not automatically? Having a physical disability does not EVER excuse one from murder.

There isn't one law for able-bodied people, and another for disabled people.

 

[Greater Than]

This would be if you believed the part of his story that they switched sides, though he could have seen such a message earlier in he evening. Seems more likely to me that whatever it was, was brewing for awhile and with mounting anger and rage (and IMO alcohol) climaxed into Reeva's horrific and terrifying death.

Along with the "cover up," the switching of the sides of the bed is another area I wish was explored further.

All evidence points to him sleeping on his usual side - the right (closest to the balcony). The shirt he took off before going to bed, his iPad, his legs...all on the right side. Her bag and flip flops were on the left. The only thing out of place is the gun holster found on the nightstand on the left side, but that doesn't prove that's the side he slept on. At best, it suggests that's the side he retrieved his gun from.

And when I say "slept," I mean the sides they were laying on in bed when the argument originated, because I don't believe they ever went to sleep that night. The propped up pillow on the right side further proves that theory.

 

[jay-jay]

“Oscar Pistorius is a professing Evangelical Christian, who grew up in a Christian home.

‘I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. I execute each strike with intent. I beat my body and make it my slave...’
I execute each strike with intent. No doubt about that either.

His late mother, Sheila, a devout Christian wrote him the following letter:

'The real loser is never the person who crosses the finishing line last. The real loser is the person who sits on the side. The person who does not even try to compete.'

No, the real loser is the fraud who pretends to be what he is not, and worse, deprives others of being who they are. On the race track, and in life. The real fraud borrows authority from a fraudulent religion and claims that fraud to be ‘good’. All fraud does is debase people’s lives. If you made a conscious decision to debase (which means demean, humiliate, disgrace, dishonour, lower) another person’s life, you could do worse than shooting them 4 times, or cheating them, and then claiming – falsely – that you mistook them for a burglar. Is it fair to demand your place in the sun only to shove someone else into the dirt, and they will never see the sun or the sky again?"
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Oscar-Pistorius-has-cheated-someone-of-her-right-to-live-20130215

The whole article is worth reading.

What is it about the Pistorius's that they seem to leave a trail of destruction behind them .. Carl Pistorius with the manslaughter of a woman he knocked off her motorcycle (and apparently her fault, because she'd been drinking), Oscar with his killing of Reeva, and now I read this from that article ..?? --->>

The athlete also stopped Beeld newspaper from taking pictures of him on the N4 highway in Pretoria in March this year, when a friend of his was involved in an accident.

A woman died at the scene of the accident after walking in front of Anneke Kruger's approaching car.

Kruger works for In/sight, the company which manages Pistorius's business interests.

A bystander who asked Pistorius why the photographer couldn't take pictures was told: "Oom, I'm Oscar Pistorius."

(.. and I sincerely hope that was not yet another incident were OP asked someone else to take the blame, like he did with the firing of the gun in Tasha's restaurant .. presumably there were witnesses to who was actually driving the car at the time, to confirm it was actually Kruger?) You know, I would steer well clear of that family, or anyone they happen to be with at the time ..

 

[jay-jay]

The propped up pillow on the right side further proves that theory.

~rsbm~

Yep, that propped up pillow is a real giveaway, isn't it .. ever seen anyone trying to sleep with their pillow like that? No, neither have I!

 

[eimajjjj]

Can someone remind me why OP switched bed sides in his fairytale again? To account for the blood splatters on the left-side of the bed wasn't it?

 

[Greater Than]

I'd really ask anyone following this case who believes Oscar's actions are reasonable because of his disability if they live/care for someone disabled. It's exactly because of that I personally find it so implausible.

My husband (now lovingly referred to as Speed Racer, as a way of making him now being wheelchair bound tolerable) is obviously vulnerable but its difficult, in my opinion, to fully comprehend this from an able-bodied POV with no day to day experience of disability.

If we're going to accept that someone's disability invokes a heightened level of fear, then to my mind we also have to concede that someone's physical limitations would still rule supreme. So...why would someone disabled and vulnerable approach an unknown threat when he had other opportunities available to him? And that's where his vulnerability all falls apart for me. He very literally went out of his way to confront the unknown - unaided by even his prosthetics.

My husband recently got his wheel stuck in a rut on the pavement down the road. His only option was to ring me to come help him out. He sat there for awhile, trying to get out himself, and sat still waiting several minutes for me. And had anything happened - a random mugging, some drunk yob, a car jumping the kerb - my husband truly would have been utterly helpless. So right or wrong, reasonable or not, callous or not, Oscar's level of vulnerability and his actions as a result fly in the face of the vulnerability I witness daily.

JMO and FWIW

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

BIB - Exactly. He felt vulnerable and afraid yet he didn't call police, didn't press the panic button, he bypassed an escape route, and walked 23 feet in order to confront an intruder. He literally went out of his way to intentionally put himself closer to the danger.

He claims "that's my personality, that's how I am," and Durman can try to dress it up as the fight vs flight response all he wants, but the fact is OP attacked, he didn't defend. To defend means to resist an attack. He wasn't about to be attacked, he was the one doing the attacking.

If we all were allowed to go around shooting people because of our own sense of fear and vulnerability, we'd be living in a dangerous, dangerous world.

MOO

 

[Greater Than]

Can someone remind me why OP switched bed sides in his fairytale again? To account for the blood splatters on the left-side of the bed wasn't it?

He said he had a shoulder injury and wanted to face Reeva while they slept, so he needed to be on the left side.

 

[eimajjjj]

He said he had a shoulder injury and wanted to face Reeva while they slept, so he needed to be on the left side.

Ah thanks. But I mean why does he 'need' to lie about being on the left side when it's obvious he was on the right.

 

[Greater Than]

Ah thanks. But I mean why does he 'need' to lie about being on the left side when it's obvious he was on the right.

I think because he needed her to be out of his line of vision when he brought the fans in, covered the LED light, and got his gun?

But it really makes no sense because if she was on the right side, that means we're supposed to believe she rolled over to the left to get up to go to the bathroom, rather than get up on the right and walk around.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I also believe he called his neighbour so he wouldn't have to act out an emotional 911 call, then have the recording dogging him in court. Yep.. his dramatic decent down the stairs carrying his dying girlfriend. The scene was horribly traumatic for his neighbours. Their presence gave real emotion to the scene and they were great witnesses for his crying and praying and all that other crap. Oscar was in control of everything. His downfall will be that, typical to his personality disorder, he believes he is more intelligent than any other one of us.
- Sherry5Berry nationalpost.com

This is exactly what I think he did. Like his slick PR gurus, he stage-managed the initial crime scene to a perfect T.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

One of OP’s defenses (LOL) was that his gun “accidentally” went off by itself...FOUR times.

Uh, NO.

OP had to deliberately override THREE safety mechanisms to fire his gun. There’s simply no possible defense of accidental firing. (Same situation with Fresco’s Glock at Tasha’s.)

This hard fact (among many others) proves that OP’s story is one massive lie from start to end.

... The Taurus* PT92 has undergone many revisions in design since it was originally produced in the mid-1980s. Early PT92s and PT99s did not feature the THIRD SAFETY POSITION decocker that is now standard ...
- Wikipedia

* OP’s Taurus is model PT917CS.

P.S. Notice how OP carefully laid his gun on the clean bath mat and there's NO blood on it? (What could we deduce from that?)
How did the bat, also on the bathroom floor, manage to get so much blood all over it?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

BIB Sue for what? Nike sells their shirts in every public store, There's nothing to say OP can't wear a Nike shirt.

The issue is not whether OP has the right to wear NIKE clothing. He can wear anything he wants (unless, or course, his NIKE contract forbids him to publicly wear NIKE if he ever breaches his contact, but who knows - I imagine murder would be a very serious breach).

That he deliberately wore NIKE tank/shorts during his MURDER reenactment video clearly shows his out-of-whack psyche. NIKE dropped him! It’s like he’s in serious denial. He did not yank them out of his closet my sheer accident.

IMO, he’s advertising that he’s still available for sponsorships, foolishly hoping against hope that he’s got some sports career left, a glimmer of former glories. It’s simply another sad, damning self-indictment.

 

[rachael123]

So how did the bat manage to get so much blood all over it?

 

[eimajjjj]

So how did the bat manage to get so much blood all over it?

I assume when he carried RS over it when he removed her from the toilet.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

BIB I'm not defending OP, but I just want to show another side to this. In public, many people put on a brave front. People go to work with mental and physical difficulties, never letting anyone know what their frailties or problems are. It's only when they get home, alone and in the still of darkness that they feel the emptiness and weakness of whatever is affecting them.

OP may say in public that he was not disabled, but I'm sure in private, he did feel inadequacies.

You do like to play devil’s advocate and that’s more than quite fine - it adds a welcome spark and spice to the discussion.

What you say about people hiding their mental and/or physical difficulties is 100% true - I have done it.
I have also never murdered anyone because of my difficulties, disabilities or “inadequacies”.

If one were to accept the premise of (“vulnerable”) “inadequacy” as even partial defense in this case, OP sure has a bizarre way of showing his “inadequacies” - aggression.

Other people suffer - NOT him.

He publicly threatens people, gets into nightclub brawls, controls and publicly berates his girlfriend, convinces people to take the blame for his f#ckups, he kills people.

That sounds like SOCIOPATHY, not everyday inadequacies or vulnerabilities.

In my view, OP’s core inadequacy - his true disability - is not his missing legs ... but his self-entitled anger issues and missing empathy.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

BEST description yet explaining OP's theatrical courtroom histrionics, his carefully orchestrated deceit. Simply perfect.

Pistorius as Hamlet

At the mere mention or sight of ‘what he has done’ Oscar Pistorius cries, retches or wails. This signifies what? We might take his emotional distress as signs of his emotional truthfulness. He submits this evidence of his emotional pain to counter the reasoned argument of the prosecution. ‘I suffer thus because I killed Reeva in error.’ There’s no arguing with emotion. Is there?

Well, yes, there is.

The authenticity of emotions can be evaluated and tested. The sounds a person makes are evidence of the quality and nature of the emotions that lie within. The sound of a crystal wine glass when lightly struck testifies to the quality of the glass. A wolf knows much about a rival pack from their barks and howls—their age, gender, health and intentions. Like breathing itself, a scream or a cry connect the inside to the outside. Actual talking is overrated.

This is why the testimony of neighbors that they heard a blood-curdling scream of a woman in fear of her life is so damaging to Pistorius. That kind of scream cannot be simulated or mistaken. Nor can it be forgotten. It tells us that the person knows she is about to die. It was the very last act in Reeva Steenkamp’s short life and it may be what condemns him.

There is something odd about his emotional outbursts. He emotes like a small boy who knows he’s in big trouble and fears the punishment he’ll receive when his father comes home. He squeals like a stuck pig. It’s full throttle, every time, all the time. He responds thus, not to any actual pain, but at the sight of the stick with which he is about to be stuck. The pig cries out in self-pity; the crying and wailing of Pistorius have the same ring.

Pistorius’ emotional outbursts conceal just as they reveal. While all this emotion is coming out, we cannot see in. His face crumples, his eyes narrow, he bends forward, as if in pain, his hands cover his face. It is next to impossible for us to see his actual inner emotional self. It seems in bad taste to even look at him. When he’s not emoting he conceals his inner thoughts and feelings with a protective stare.

. . . Need we look any further than Hamlet?

. . . Oblivious to how his actions might have contributed to her death, at her funeral Hamlet throws himself into her grave, holds her in his arms and (much like Pistorius) insists ‘I loved Ophelia!’

. . . Hamlet avoided responsibility by simulating madness. ‘I essentially am not in madness, But mad in craft.’ (III. iv. 187-8.)

. . . Pistorius attempts to avoid responsibility for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp by simulating distraught innocence. This is ‘deep acting’ in support of the Pistorius brand. This is much more than pretending. He’s fooling himself as he attempts to fool us. . . .

- Dr. Richard Marsden

http://businessofemotions.org/2014/04/11/posing-questions-with-a-hammer-pistorius-as-hamlet/