Trial Discussion Thread #53 - 14.12.9, Day 42 ~ final verdict~

[cottonweaver]

"Pistorius family joy


Pistorius spent Friday night with his sister, Aimee, away from the home of uncle Arnold and aunt Lois Pistorius where he has been staying since the shooting.

Despite looks of relief on Friday, the family remain worried about the sentencing and the possibility of an appeal."

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/state-vs-oscar/

published 14 September,
Who knows? I posted it myself upthread but its unclear where Aimee lives!!.

 

[Ginro]

agree...the only time they conferred is about when to "take tea" and how long...often you could hear the whispering.

And Judge Masipa hardly ever consulted with the male assessor, usually with the female assessor.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Oscar Pistorius plans to write a book giving his account of what happened when he shot dead his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, and his ordeal in standing trial for her murder.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/13/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-book

His account? LOL Didn’t he already give us multiple versions and three defenses on the stand?

What’s to tell?

He murdered.
He lied.
He puked.
He walked.

Discussing a possible book - even before sentencing is handed down - illustrates just what a putrid, pathological monster Oscar Pistorius really is.

 

[Really?]

I didn't notice to be honest but I couldn't watch too much of it before coming here to read the rest - I knew what was coming or at least could make a good guess at it and just didn't want to see any Pistorius family smirking. Now though it all makes me wonder if that's why Uncle Arnold always had that creepy smirk on his face, even when things seemed to be going bad for Pistorius.

But as you say it is unfeeling to refer to her only as 'the deceased' and even worse to call her by her last name. Pistorius was given the respect of a 'Mr' before his name so you'd like to think that the woman he blasted to death was at least deserving of a 'Ms' if not her first name.

Let us not forget.....as Shane13 used to say.....it is Oscar World.

 

[soozieqtips]

I didn't notice to be honest but I couldn't watch too much of it before coming here to read the rest - I knew what was coming or at least could make a good guess at it and just didn't want to see any Pistorius family smirking. Now though it all makes me wonder if that's why Uncle Arnold always had that creepy smirk on his face, even when things seemed to be going bad for Pistorius.

But as you say it is unfeeling to refer to her only as 'the deceased' and even worse to call her by her last name. Pistorius was given the respect of a 'Mr' before his name so you'd like to think that the woman he blasted to death was at least deserving of a 'Ms' if not her first name.

BIB - I agree. It seemed a very cold and detached way to refer to Reeva. But then Reeva didn't come into the equation at all for Masipa. So much for her tough stance against domestic violence. What a joke.

 

[Feynman]

Is it considered not professional for a judge in reading this verdict to call Reeva Steenkamp by name? I find calling her the "deceased" revolting. I realize that is what she is but she does have a name...she was a person. Gerry Nel always used her name. I guess that is a tactic the defense uses to make it seem less personal but at the point of verdict OP was accused of murdering Reeva Steenkamp.

Gerry Nel always used her name? Hardly.

 

[foxbluff]

I know a few of us Websleuthers were wondering what Gerrie Nel was doing when the verdict was being delivered. He appeared to be industriusly taking notes with his head down for most of the time. Maybe the following extract gives us a clue.

"From the moment on Thursday when it became clear Masipa was going to find him not guilty of murder, Gerrie [Nel] started talking to the team about a possible appeal. Mark my words, he is studying case law as we speak," said a senior member of the prosecuting team.

Nel and everyone involved in the prosecution, including the team of detectives and experts, were "completely gutted" at the judge's verdict, the Sunday Times was told.

"We have all lost cases ... we listened to Masipa, with the greatest of respect, and the finding just didn't make sense.

"We will do what we always do. Calm down, sit around a table and look at the facts and then fight back," said the senior member of the prosecuting team.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/special/...dge-under-fire-while-state-is-urged-to-appeal

Ty for this link Forensics. I had come here today wishing to hear something from the PT about an appeal, but had braced myself that we would have to wait until Monday, at the earliest, to hear anything.

BBM - Yesss... that is music to my ears !!

 

[east2west]

IMO, Masipa believed Oscar's version of events even before the trial started.....Once I heard her declare that he " shouldn't be punished twice" in regards to the Pysch Evaluation at Weskoppies, I was stunned. What Judge would make that type of announcement in the middle of a trial??? The operative word she used was: "Punished".

I shook my head for a few minutes after she used that word.

 

[jay-jay]

Excellent post and totally agree. Remember his unbelievable statement ' I will stand trial if I have to '. IMO he will be seething inside that the Judge had the audacity even to find him guilty of culpable homicide, such is his arrogant self- serving mindset.

.. and don't forget what he said in his Bail Statement (BS <<-- yes, that's appropriate, isn't it?!) ..

I have been informed that I am accused of having committed the offence of murder.

I deny the aforesaid allegation in the strongest terms.

I am advised that I do not have to deal with the merits of the case for purposes of the bail application.

However, I believe that it is appropriate to deal with the merits in this application, particularly in view of the State’s contention that I planned to murder Reeva.

Nothing can be further from the truth and I have no doubt that it is not possible for the State to present objective facts to substantiate such an allegation, as there is no substance in the allegation.

I do not know on what different facts the allegation of a premeditated murder could be premised and I respectfully request the State to furnish me with such alleged facts in order to allow me to refute such allegations.

.. does he really not think that after killing a woman in such a way, that he would not be investigated and charged with murder? Exactly which planet is this guy living on? His arrogance knows no bounds.

 

[foxbluff]

I think Aimee also lives at Uncle Arnold's but I could be wrong and probably am as I remember him saying he rang Aimee when he was hiding in a cupboard but, thereagain, he could have been ringing her mobile phone in another part of the house. Uncle Arnold's house is very large and I am sure I read OP lives in a bungalow in the grounds. I thought it sounded as though they both together went somewhere else. I have always thought Aimee knows her brother committed murder, hence her extreme anxiety in court. I think she was petrified of him being sussed.

BBM... I think you're right, unless she has very recently moved. I recall reading somewhere early on, that Aimee had been living in her own place, but moved into Uncle Arnold's right after Reeva was killed.

 

[Fuskier]

Much has been made of JM's background, demonstrations for women's rights and the passion, when young, that goes with all of that. However once someone attains prominence in society, e.g. becomes a judge, they have left all that behind and joined the 'establishment' (If you can't beat 'em, join 'em). To not do so is incompatible with such a position in society, in my opinion, and too difficult to reconcile. So although a judge might maintain a sense of 'right' and of fairness, I believe over identifying with a defendant is not often the case. The law requires cognitive thinkers, where the head dominates over the heart. I felt all through the trial that JM maintained a passive position and just let the whole thing roll on and on. Neither do I believe that she was chosen to preside over the trial as just the next person on the allocation list, as promoted at the beginning. There must be, in my opinion, other reasons for the shambles it has become and I hope the public outcry about the verdict will help those reasons become clearer.
At the very least I hope that OP will not get away with murder and will pay the appropriate price.

Well said IMO :goodpost:

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

IMO, Masipa believed Oscar's version of events even before the trial started.....Once I heard her declare that he " shouldn't be punished twice" in regards to the Pysch Evaluation at Weskoppies, I was stunned. What Judge would make that type of announcement in the middle of a trial??? The operative word she used was: "Punished".

I shook my head for a few minutes after she used that word.

Me too, I was absolutely stunned. For a moment I thought that perhaps she already made up his mind that he was guilty (hence the punish him twice - first in Weskoppies, then with sentencing).

 

[Cherwell]

I wouldn't get too excited about an appeal. That will be fixed too.

 

[foxbluff]

Oscar Pistorius plans to write a book giving his account of what happened when he shot dead his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, and his ordeal in standing trial for her murder.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/13/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-book

His account? LOL Didn’t he already give us multiple versions and three defenses on the stand?

What’s to tell?

He murdered.
He lied.
He puked.
He walked.

Discussing a possible book - even before sentencing is handed down - illustrates just what a putrid, pathological monster Oscar Pistorius really is.

Egads !! Wonder if he will copy the title OJ used... IIRC, it was "How I would have killed her had I killed her." <where's that green bucket?!?!>

 

[soozieqtips]

That Oscar Pistorius lived in fear of intruders has largely been accepted. But Reeva Steenkamp's claims of having been 'scared' of her boyfriend have seemingly been overlooked. How can we treat two manifestations of the same emotion so differently?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/11...s-one-fear-count-for-more-than-the-other.html

 

[mister happy]

IMO, Masipa believed Oscar's version of events even before the trial started.....Once I heard her declare that he " shouldn't be punished twice" in regards to the Pysch Evaluation at Weskoppies, I was stunned. What Judge would make that type of announcement in the middle of a trial??? The operative word she used was: "Punished".

I shook my head for a few minutes after she used that word.

I missed that part of the trial. What exactly did Masipa mean when she said he shouldn't be punished twice?

Is this why she allowed him to be an outpatient?

 

[foxbluff]

I thought both Oscar and Aimee lived with Uncle Arnold in his big swanky mansion.

The last I heard OP was living in a separate house on Uncle's estate.

 

[jay-jay]

Oscar Pistorius plans to write a book giving his account of what happened when he shot dead his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, and his ordeal in standing trial for her murder.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/13/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-book

His account? LOL Didn’t he already give us multiple versions and three defenses on the stand?

What’s to tell?

He murdered.
He lied.
He puked.
He walked.

Discussing a possible book - even before sentencing is handed down - illustrates just what a putrid, pathological monster Oscar Pistorius really is.

'Putrid' is definitely the word to describe him .. he is absolutely VILE.

 

[Fuskier]

Thank you for this link Forensics:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/special/...dge-under-fire-while-state-is-urged-to-appeal

Oscar Judge Under Fire While State is Urged To Appeal
Werner Swart, Tymon Smith and Khanyi Ndabeni | 14 September, 2014 09:00

One of the country's leading criminal law experts, Advocate Mannie Witz, said Masipa's judgment needed to be considered by a senior bench to provide clarity for South African courts.

"The National Prosecuting Authority doesn't have to appeal, but in all honesty, with the eyes of the world on us and the sharp debate among the legal fraternity about her interpretations, the country deserves clarity," Witz said. "Only the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein can provide that."
James Grant, professor of criminal law at the University of the Witwatersrand, said ... "Nel is under a duty to see that justice is done" ...
The NPA has formally stated it will announce any further legal action only after sentencing.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Gerry Nel always used her name? Hardly.

I don't know what trial you listened too but that isn't true. In fact Nel ALWAYS used Reeva's name. I loved the way he said it, the emphasis on the Reeeeevvva.

I don't know why I bother to prove my point, oh well, I will anyway. :lol:

Excerpts of Cross Examination with OP


Chief prosecutor Gerrie Nel- You still are one of the most recognized faces in the world, do you agree?

Oscar Pistorius- I agree my lady.

GN- You are a model for both disabled and able-bodied sportsmen all over the world.

OP- I think I was my lady. I’ve made a terrible mistake and….

GN- You made a mistake?

OP- That’s correct.

GN- You killed a person, that’s what you did, isn’t it?

OP- I made a mistake.

GN- You killed Reeva Steenkamp, that’s what you did.

OP- I made a mistake.

GN- You’re repeating it three times – what was your mistake?

OP- My mistake was that I took Reeva’s life my lady.

GN- You killed her! You shot and killed her! Won’t you take responsibility for that?

OP- I did my lady.

GN- Then say it then, say yes – I shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp.

OP- I did my lady.

GN- Okay then. Mr Pistorius, people look up at you as a sport hero. Is that correct?

OP- I don’t check any of my media things any more, I don’t check any of my media reports. I know that lots of people’s opinions of me have changed. I know people in the past did look up to me.

GN- Let’s talk about in the past – before you killed Reeva, people looked up to you?

OP- That’s correct my lady.

GN- You have a responsibility to now tell the truth. Let us get to the truth.

OP- I think I have a responsibility for myself and Reeva to tell the truth my lady.

GN- And you will now?

OP- I’m here to tell the truth, the truth as much as I can remember on that night.

GN- And you will not hide things from the court?

OP- I won’t my lady.

GN- And coupled with that, you live strictly on Christian principles?

OP- I try to my lady. I’m human, I make many faults, I have sins. I am a Christian because of the reason that I’m a sinner, the Lord said he came down for the people that had sins. I don’t always think the things I do are right.

GN- But as a Christian, you will not lie.

OP - I will try not to lie my lady, as I said, I’m human. I’m here to tell the truth.

Hmmm, very revealing last part don't you all think?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GERRIE NEL, PROSECUTOR: What we can see there is the effect the ammunition had on a watermelon. It exploded. Am I right?

OSCAR PISTORIUS, OLYMPIAN AND PARALYMPIAN: That's correct, My Lady.

GERRIE NEL: You know that the same happened to Reeva's head. It exploded. Have a look.

OSCAR PISTORIUS: My Lady, I was there that night. I ...

GERRIE NEL: Have a look there - I know you don't want to because you don't want to take responsibility, but it's time that you look at it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I never picked on her." - Pistorius on Steenkamp saying in a whatsApp message that he picked incessantly on her.

--

"So, Reeva lied?" - Nel.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nel: I have heard that Reeva was a very neat person. Do you, can you?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nel: It’s a huge leap from 'I’ve just shot intruder' to coming to the conclusion 'it could be Reeva'.
Pistorius: When the thought came over me that it might be Reeva, nothing else mattered.


http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-p...of-grilling-20140414-36nem.html#ixzz3DKYDjuIk