Trial Discussion Thread #55 - 14.14.10, Day 44 ~ sentencing~

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Lux et Veritas said:
One cannot corrupt an already corrupt soul.

The corrupt do not want to reform.

And hope? LOL

The corrupt are the destroyers of hope.

Would Masipa and Henzen-du Toit be so “reluctant” to bring down the righteous hammer if Oscar had murdered THEIR sister, daughter, granddaughter, best friend? Their entire perspective would do a total 180, wouldn’t it?

Let’s face it - with very rare exceptions, the judiciary exists in their own alternate reality, safely insulated from Real Life. Violent crime happens to others, to those people. Crime doesn’t personally affect them - they can afford to be compassionate and magnanimous and even experimental with the law when they’ve got zero skin in the game.

They hand down ‘sage’ decrees, dressed up in fancy legalese that sound great on paper but have nothing whatsoever to do with justice.

Second chances and suspended sentences and “holistic” and “reform” and “rehabilitation” and bleeding-heart platitudes are easy when it’s someone else’s horrific nightmare.

Crime scene photos are sterile, they never do the actual brutality justice; testimony only goes so far in painting the whole picture. One must stand in the place of the victim, both figuratively and literally.

At the very least, Masipa and her assessors should have each taken the elevator down from their ivory tower to physically stand alone in that tiny, dark, locked toilet - then imagine a dear loved one in their place, terrified, mangled, bleeding, dead ... shot to death by Oscar Pistorius. Perhaps the shattered, bloody tiles, bashed metal and smashed doors would have whispered the truth in their ears.

INJUSTICE IS A TOTAL FAILURE OF IMAGINATION.

It seeks to separate you from me from all of us, to justify selfish bias, to twist and circumvent the law to satisfy one’s narrow ideals and agenda. It speaks of the “victim”, the “deceased” ... very rarely by her name - REEVA. She becomes little more than an abstract, caught in the judicial machinery. The cold, abstract rule of law must be tempered by making cases personal, viewing the deceased as a once warm, living, breathing, feeling human being with a real name, a real smile, real dreams, an existence as real as their own.

Entire families are traumatized, sometimes broken beyond repair ... they, too, are victims in their own right.

One must put oneself in the shoes of Reeva and her family. It could so easily have been MY loved one. One then instantly sees murderous violence in a stark new light - it becomes personal, immediate, a wrong that must be corrected. A murder is not just a criminal offense against the deceased - it is an offense against ALL. Yes, we should all take it personally. No judge ever became just or wise simply by reading and applying laws and statutes - anyone can do that. Real lives, real victims, real families should be the prism which the law must pass through to reach true justice.

Reeva Steenkamp should have been the prism through which Masipa walked.

Her misguided (if sincere) thirst for “remorse” and “rehabilitation” has corrupted her judgement in favor of the predator.

Sometimes Lady Justice must remove her blindfold to avoid falling into an abyss ... or becoming prey.
Click to expand...

The problem is that you cannot rehabilitate a Narcissistic sociopath.
 
Estelle said:
Did AV ever supply Nel with the URL of the website she referred to for her research?

I missed it because we had a thunderstorm last night here in Sydney and even though I put my ear to the microphone, I found it difficult to hear. I don't usually need headphones so did not have handy.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, she didn't. :/
 
zwiebel said:
The Steenkamp's lawyer said in that video they were aware the issue of payments was coming up but it didn't come up in the the way 'we' thought it would. That's why he felt the need to make an announcement immediately.

Unfortunately, the Pistorius camp now get to have the last word, because they are making their statement about it tomorrow, and have already said his statement is incorrect. What a mess. The Steenkamps would have been far, far better off selling their story to a newspaper, than trusting Pistorius. I think their lawyer gave very bad counsel in approaching OP for payments, and letting them do a deal with him.
Click to expand...

I can't wait to hear what the Pistorius' team's version is.
 
Cherwell said:
I hope he doesn't. Frankly I haven't been impressed by his articulacy or oratorical skills. He'd likely be faffing about, losing his place all the time.
No, it needs to be someone who can deliver it clearly and with feeling.
Click to expand...

I agree. Let's hope June delivers it herself.
 
Aika said:
Oscar Pistorius: Correctional supervision, a reality under attack

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...ervision-a-reality-under-attack/#.VD1k5EvZVuY

.....Finally, Nel said Vergeer had also argued for correctional supervision in the high profile cases of Molemo "Jub Jub" Maarohanye and some reports said she claimed the same for “Sunday Rapist” Jaco Steyn.

-----------------------

'Sunday Rapist' found guilty on 33 charges

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Sunday-Rapist-found-guilty-on-33-charges-20120918

2012-09-18 22:39

"Sunday Rapist" Jaco Steyn was found guilty on 33 charges, including murder, in the South Gauteng High Court sitting in Alberton on Tuesday.

Judge Sita Kolbe found him guilty on all but four of the 37 charges brought against him.
Two of those were changed from rape to sexual assault and one was changed from murder to culpable homicide.
Steyn has pleaded not guilty to two counts of murder, 11 of rape, 10 of sexual assault, 10 of kidnapping, one of attempted sexual assault, and one of attempted kidnapping.

The abductions took place between 2008 and 2011 and the girls were aged between 11 and 18.
Among these was 16-year-old Louise de Waal.

--------------------

So this lady suggested correctional supervision for a convicted murderer and rapist? No wonder Roux wanted her on his team.
Click to expand...

A travesty of justice!
 
Annette Vergeer as probation officer/social worker defence witness:

1. 2009 - Sword attack victim Jacques Pretorius, killed by Morne Harmse, 18. Harmse also wounded three others in the same attack at a Technical High School.

  • Annette Vergeer presented a pyscho-social report on Harmse.
  • She recommended Harmse be placed in a youth prison like Leeukop, where besides the element of punishment, he could also receive both individual and group therapy and counselling, as well as be able to further his studies.
  • Should not be given a long sentence.
  • Though Harmse smoked drugs several times a week in custody, Vergeer thinks this does not mean he lacks remorse.
    http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=27404

2. IT whiz kid Alex Mokgoro was all smiles at his latest court appearance, despite the threat of a lengthy jail sentence hanging over his head for beating his wife into a coma. He closed door, beat her in bathroom and did not get her treatment for irreversible brain damage.
  • Social worker Annette Vergeer told the court that because Mokgoro was a first-time offender and did not present a danger to society, he should be handed a suspended sentence - with house arrest and community service, and maybe a fine - no jail time.
  • Vergeer said Mokgoro's family would also suffer without his salary.
  • Vergeer said Mokgoro's family was used to a "middle- to upper-class lifestyle"
  • Magistrate George Andrews asked Vergeer how house arrest would be different to how most people lived their lives. "We all go to work and then go home, where we read or watch TV and it's the same the next day."
  • Vergeer said the circumstances in prisons were "devastating" and they were often overcrowded.
    [*]"He is considered a suitable candidate for correctional supervision,"     she told the court.
  • "This shows the complete lack of remorse on his part. We, as Boitumelo's family, found the pre-sentence and correctional supervision report submitted by Mrs Vergeer to be vague, biased and full of inaccuracies.
  • "We believe Mrs Vergeer did not sufficiently probe statements made by Mr Mokgoro or his family," he said.
    http://dastardlydads.blogspot.hk/2009/10/dad-beats-mom-into-coma-but-child.html
    http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/he-injured-her-to-express-his-feelings-1.462667#.VD4DLefd2BA

3. 16 year old shoots girl in the back of the head. Victim, 17-yer-old Cassandra van Rooyen, killed by minor. With accomplice Ken Maree, 19, teen killer dragged victim's body under a bush where it was hidden under grass for three days. The minor confessed to culpable homicide and stated he “didn’t mean to murder his flatmate.”
  • Vergeer asked Judge Caroline Nicholls and assessor Caroline Middleton not to pass a lengthy sentence, citing the pair's ages. She added that they were likely to be sodomised in jail.
  • She suggested that a suspended sentence with correctional supervision, including house arrest and rehabilitation, might be appropriate.
    http://www.security.co.za/fullStory.asp?NewsId=14423

4. A former police constable who shot dead his girlfriend's mother and seriously wounded his girlfriend, their son and another boy appeared in the High Court in Pretoria on Wednesday.'

5. Jub Jub Maarohanye – kills four teenagers, injures to the point of severe brain injury two other teen boys.

  • Remorse cannot be measured, a social worker told a Soweto court on Wednesday in the sentencing proceedings of Molemo "Jub Jub" Maarohanye and his co-accused Themba Tshabalala.
  • "Regret or remorse is totally circumstantial," Vergeer said.
  • "The fact that he [Maarohanye] didn't plead guilty: you can't say he didn't show remorse or doesn't regret the accident."
  • She said Maarohanye was the breadwinner in his family and had about 15 people working for him. Vergeer said the circumstances in prisons were "devastating" and they were often overcrowded.
  • "He is considered a suitable candidate for correctional supervision," she told the court. She proposed a suspended prison sentence and 570 hours of community service as a suitable sentence.
    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/12/05/jub-jub-sentencing-remorse-can-t-be-measured

6. Nicole Romy de Villiers, 29, convicted of stealing about R1.3 million from the company she worked for, is a changed woman who should not be jailed because she has small children and did not benefit from her crimes other than by way of an "elevated lifestyle", the magistrate's court heard yesterday by Annette Vergeer.
  • Vergeer says defrauder had recently found a job and had expressed remorse for her actions.
  • Prosecutor Adele Carstens quickly determined that Vergeer had not verified any of the claims she put forward on behalf of the accused, and so the report was one-sided.
    http://www.security.co.za/fullStory.asp?NewsId=15353
 
K.T said:
Annette Vergeer is the Death Star, the screeching anti-victim, the anti-prison probation advocate on almost every case she has overseen, even the most heinous, murderous, child killing, sexual assault crime.

- Her constant refrain, almost verbatim, is "remorse is circumstantial or relative" and that the felons and defendants always feel heavy remorse.

- No criminal according to Vergeer, especially first-time or repeat, young or old, black or white, middle-class or wealthy should go to prison because of sodomy, lack of hygiene, gangs and overcrowding.

- She pushes for "correctional supervision" for men who beat their wives to a vegetative state, teenager who kills teen and wounds four other boys, man who kills his wife's grandmother, four year old son and almost shoots wife dead with nine shots....the list of her defense witness trials is terribly sad, painful for anyone interested in the victim.
And I'm only touching the surface of cases she's been brought in by defence teams from 2009(?!).

Will list with links in another post, hopefully, but trawling through so many awful judgements of South African crime is fairly dispiriting especially as we face more of the same, soon...
Click to expand...

Is she employed to save tax payer's money by the government? No wonder they have so much crime in South Africa! The punishment never fits the crime. I always thought this would be a cut and dried case and OP would be charged with murder and sentenced to prison as he would be in any other country. Maybe things will never change until the government does. They must have many repeat offenders.
 
K.T said:
Annette Verger as probation officer/social worker defence witness:

1. 2009 - Sword attack victim Jacques Pretorius, killed by Morne Harmse, 18. Harmse also wounded three others in the same attack at a Technical High School.

  • Annette Vergeer presented a pyscho-social report on Harmse.
  • She recommended Harmse be placed in a youth prison like Leeukop, where besides the element of punishment, he could also receive both individual and group therapy and counselling, as well as be able to further his studies.
  • Should not be given a long sentence.
  • Though Harmse smoked drugs several times a week in custody, Vergeer thinks this does not mean he lacks remorse.
    http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=27404

2. IT whiz kid Alex Mokgoro was all smiles at his latest court appearance, despite the threat of a lengthy jail sentence hanging over his head for beating his wife into a coma. He closed door, beat her in bathroom and did not get her treatment for irreversible brain damage.
  • Social worker Annette Vergeer told the court that because Mokgoro was a first-time offender and did not present a danger to society, he should be handed a suspended sentence - with house arrest and community service, and maybe a fine - no jail time.
  • Vergeer said Mokgoro's family would also suffer without his salary.
  • Vergeer said Mokgoro's family was used to a "middle- to upper-class lifestyle"
  • Magistrate George Andrews asked Vergeer how house arrest would be different to how most people lived their lives. "We all go to work and then go home, where we read or watch TV and it's the same the next day."
  • Vergeer said the circumstances in prisons were "devastating" and they were often overcrowded.
    [*]"He is considered a suitable candidate for correctional supervision,"     she told the court.
  • "This shows the complete lack of remorse on his part. We, as Boitumelo's family, found the pre-sentence and correctional supervision report submitted by Mrs Vergeer to be vague, biased and full of inaccuracies.
  • "We believe Mrs Vergeer did not sufficiently probe statements made by Mr Mokgoro or his family," he said.
    http://dastardlydads.blogspot.hk/2009/10/dad-beats-mom-into-coma-but-child.html
    http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/he-injured-her-to-express-his-feelings-1.462667#.VD4DLefd2BA

3. 16 year old shoots girl in the back of the head. Victim, 17-yer-old Cassandra van Rooyen, killed by minor. With accomplice Ken Maree, 19, teen killer dragged victim's body under a bush where it was hidden under grass for three days. The minor confessed to culpable homicide and stated he “didn’t mean to murder his flatmate.”
  • Vergeer asked Judge Caroline Nicholls and assessor Caroline Middleton not to pass a lengthy sentence, citing the pair's ages. She added that they were likely to be sodomised in jail.
  • She suggested that a suspended sentence with correctional supervision, including house arrest and rehabilitation, might be appropriate.
    http://www.security.co.za/fullStory.asp?NewsId=14423

4. A former police constable who shot dead his girlfriend's mother and seriously wounded his girlfriend, their son and another boy appeared in the High Court in Pretoria on Wednesday.'

5. Jub Jub Maarohanye – kills four teenagers, injures to the point of severe brain injury two other teen boys.

  • Remorse cannot be measured, a social worker told a Soweto court on Wednesday in the sentencing proceedings of Molemo "Jub Jub" Maarohanye and his co-accused Themba Tshabalala.
  • "Regret or remorse is totally circumstantial," Vergeer said.
  • "The fact that he [Maarohanye] didn't plead guilty: you can't say he didn't show remorse or doesn't regret the accident."
  • She said Maarohanye was the breadwinner in his family and had about 15 people working for him. Vergeer said the circumstances in prisons were "devastating" and they were often overcrowded.
  • "He is considered a suitable candidate for correctional supervision," she told the court. She proposed a suspended prison sentence and 570 hours of community service as a suitable sentence.
    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/12/05/jub-jub-sentencing-remorse-can-t-be-measured

6. Nicole Romy de Villiers, 29, convicted of stealing about R1.3 million from the company she worked for, is a changed woman who should not be jailed because she has small children and did not benefit from her crimes other than by way of an "elevated lifestyle", the magistrate's court heard yesterday by Annette Vergeer.
  • Vergeer says defrauder had recently found a job and had expressed remorse for her actions.
  • Prosecutor Adele Carstens quickly determined that Vergeer had not verified any of the claims she put forward on behalf of the accused, and so the report was one-sided.
    http://www.security.co.za/fullStory.asp?NewsId=15353
Click to expand...

SA - obviously a paradise for evildoers. OP necessarily should stay there forever; that's the one and only country for people like him.
 
FromGermany said:
SA - obviously a paradise for evildoers. OP necessarily should stay there forever; that's the one and only country for people like him.
Click to expand...

....and Shrien Dewani must have known this.
 
Originally Posted by K.T View Post
His modernist house is mostly stone-tiled, therefore he prefers to live with slippery floors, plus he didn't seem to have bath rails or shower rails in his master bathroom.

Yet I'm sure he'll take that ongoing girl 'friend' Jenna Edkins framed collage of their loved-up pictures, wherever he lives next...




Estelle said:
On Twitter, @aleshavr tweeted that Pistorius had "underdressed" women sitting on his lap at the VIP Room "on Sunday morning".

The claims are unsubstantiated and Mr Mortimer and others making allegations have refused to comment further. But they could prove nonetheless damaging to the athlete's case as the judge considers her verdict against him due next month.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...before-nightclub-fight-partygoers-allege.html

I wonder if Jenna Edkins was one of the women who was scantily dressed sitting on OP's knee?

I wonder also if the cousin OP was with was Graham Binge because once or twice he was described as being with "a blonde female cousin" at the car yard of Justin Divaris looking at cars. But I have never seen this blonde female cousin in court. Could this so-called female cousin have been Erin Steer or was it really Jenna Edkins?
Click to expand...

Have I dreamed this detail: I remember June to have mentioned a framed picture of Reeva, RS photographed from behind and "going into the future". That picture was broken apart and seen lying on the floor or had disappeared. Before it was hanging in the room with the (thrown??) pocals.
Dream or not??????????????
 
FromGermany said:
SA - obviously a paradise for evildoers. OP necessarily should stay there forever; that's the one and only country for people like him.
Click to expand...

No wonder Dewani went back to SA, it's a win-win for him, either he'll be completely cleared of charges or if found guilty, will do a trivial task for penance, 16 hours a month.
OP played his hand well, cried and sobbed, prayed, behaved like a little boy and so he is treated like one, some light chores for his punishment. :curses:
 
I often listen to 702 radio in the evenings - especially to Aubrey Masango "Talk at Nine" show, it’s excellent.
Anyways, I had in on after midnight last night and they talked about the Oscar trial. It was quite telling, a lot of angry people called in. A VERY angry man called and said that if Oscar cannot do time then all disabled people should be immediately released from prisons :).

Then an expert on the SA prisons called and said that the conditions for rich people (by rich he meant anything but extremely poor) are completely different - private rooms, access to computers, gym, etc. He talked about the case of four young, white men - living in the same area as Arnold - known as the "Waterkloof 4".
They could drink alcohol, party etc.

Here is a video of how the rich (The Waterkloof 4) live in SA prisons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzBMTLefO8Y
 
FromGermany said:
Originally Posted by K.T View Post
His modernist house is mostly stone-tiled, therefore he prefers to live with slippery floors, plus he didn't seem to have bath rails or shower rails in his master bathroom.

Yet I'm sure he'll take that ongoing girl 'friend' Jenna Edkins framed collage of their loved-up pictures, wherever he lives next...






Have I dreamed this detail: I remember June to have mentioned a framed picture of Reeva, RS photographed from behind and "going into the future". That picture was broken apart and seen lying on the floor or had disappeared. Before it was hanging in the room with the (thrown??) pocals.
Dream or not??????????????
Click to expand...

Not a dream FG, but it's now been erased by Team Oscar. :(
 
FromGermany said:
Originally Posted by K.T View Post
His modernist house is mostly stone-tiled, therefore he prefers to live with slippery floors, plus he didn't seem to have bath rails or shower rails in his master bathroom.

Yet I'm sure he'll take that ongoing girl 'friend' Jenna Edkins framed collage of their loved-up pictures, wherever he lives next...






Have I dreamed this detail: I remember June to have mentioned a framed picture of Reeva, RS photographed from behind and "going into the future". That picture was broken apart and seen lying on the floor or had disappeared. Before it was hanging in the room with the (thrown??) pocals.
Dream or not??????????????
Click to expand...

Hi - I think you might be thinking of Allison B-C's photo. Best wishes - Bobbie
 
FromGermany said:
Originally Posted by K.T View Post
His modernist house is mostly stone-tiled, therefore he prefers to live with slippery floors, plus he didn't seem to have bath rails or shower rails in his master bathroom.

Yet I'm sure he'll take that ongoing girl 'friend' Jenna Edkins framed collage of their loved-up pictures, wherever he lives next...






Have I dreamed this detail: I remember June to have mentioned a framed picture of Reeva, RS photographed from behind and "going into the future". That picture was broken apart and seen lying on the floor or had disappeared. Before it was hanging in the room with the (thrown??) pocals.
Dream or not??????????????
Click to expand...

I have a vague recollection of that. Perhaps it will be in June's book.
 
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