Trial Discussion Thread #55 - 14.14.10, Day 44 ~ sentencing~

[soozieqtips]

She and Derman make a good pair - rude and insolent to Nel, and Masipa says nothing. And yet she ticked Nel off for calling OP a liar. Nel said he didn't say that. When I listened to the cross-examination again I never heard him say it either. What I heard was "You are lying" or "That is a lie". She also made such a big deal about the missing cord in the bedroom. Why didn't she make a bigger deal of Roux producing the audio tape of OP screaming like a woman. She's totally biased IMO.

Masipa even shared a little joke with Roux about only allowing him a 4 1/2 minute adjournment instead of 5. She gave him a LOT of leeway when it came to badgering and insulting innocent state witnesses, but when Nel tried to get the truth out of OP, she kept stepping in to either adjourn, or admonish Nel! And I remember how most of us tried to tell ourselves it was because she was making sure all avenues of an appeal would be ruled out. Now we know different.

 

[vanatos]

A question for you amazing sluethers.

Is there any more videos of judge greenland for the events last 2 days? all i see the the one video on carte blanche with that silly girl anchor (i cant stand).

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nel tells Annette Vergeer that the prosecution will be calling a witness from Correctional Services to dispute her negative account of the conditions in South African prisons.

Roux will have a positive field day with this issue. We've seen photos of the crowding and poor conditions but I've only seen them in relation to black prisoners. I wouldn't have gone down that path at all unless Nel has photos of good conditions for white prisoners. JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

Respected South African legal consultant Amanda Dissel laid out some of the issues which have traditionally surrounded correctional supervision in a 1997 paper:

Since its introduction in all South African provinces, there has been increasing use made of this sentence. In 1995, the Department of Correctional Services had 37 000 offenders passing through this system with 80 percent successfully completing the sentence. However, correctional supervision is not without its problems. Many courts are reluctant to use this option as they do not see it as a sufficient punishment. Another problem is that many of the offenders do not live in areas which can be easily monitored. They do not have fixed addresses or employment, and so do not qualify for the sentence. Certain population groups, by virtue of their wealth and greater social stability, tend to qualify more readily for this option: more middle-class white people are being sentenced to correctional supervision than to imprisonment.

http://www.khayelitshacommission.org.za/about/79-about/75-amanda-dissel.html

This begs the question - are they being sentenced to correctional supervision for a crime involving a death with a firearm?

 

[808]

I think i've finally accepted there is no way there can be justice for Reeva, i'll continue watching anything with Christ Greenland because he is the only one person that makes me have faith in humanity.

After learning that with Reeva's death, the steenkamp family was in incredible financial ruin, it means their dirt poor.

There's no way justice here can persevere, Pistorius clan has money, they can buy them out.

It was a nice trial to watch.

http://oscartrial.dstv.com/video/653784/category/0

This is the good Judge Chris (t) having a go at the characterisation of Oscar as the victim by media.
He says that expert witnesses are wrong.

 

[Greater Than]

These defense witnesses are vomit inducing.

Prison would "break" OP?? Please. Reeva's family and friends are the broken ones. They are the ones experiencing true loss. He has the luxury of being alive, even if in a prison cell.

How in the world could community service and house arrest rehabilitate him? Only the true punishment of incarceration would possibly scratch the surface of teaching him a lesson.

And if the prison conditions are less than desirable in SA, too bad. Arguing about cement floors and potential gang rapes should have no place in this sentencing hearing. He's a criminal. And the severity of his negligence of pumping four hollow point bullets into a tiny toilet cubicle without allegedly even knowing who was behind that door is the only factor that should be taken into consideration. If prison conditions are poor and dangerous, that should be taken up with the government at some other time and in some other place on behalf of ALL prisoners. In the meantime, this hearing should focus on the crime and the punishment for committing said crime.

When Judge Mlambo approved the media application allowing the trial to be broadcast live, one of the reasons he stated was to ensure the openness of SA's judicial system and to eliminate the perception that the rich and famous are treated with kid gloves. How ironic that the openness of this trial proved exactly what the perception has always been. Masipa has one more opportunity to slightly alter that perception by throwing the book at him with the maximum sentence, or at least sentencing him to some length of time behind bars. But sadly I have little faith in her anymore, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[emirates1957]

Please excuse my ignorance here....but who is Masipa answerable to?

 

[Greater Than]

Please excuse my ignorance here....but who is Masipa answerable to?

Arnold Pistorius?

 

[soozieqtips]

These defense witnesses are vomit inducing.

Prison would "break" OP?? Please. Reeva's family and friends are the broken ones. They are the ones experiencing true loss. He has the luxury of being alive, even if in a prison cell.

How in the world could community service and house arrest rehabilitate him? Only the true punishment of incarceration would possibly scratch the surface of teaching him a lesson.

And if the prison conditions are less than desirable in SA, too bad. Arguing about cement floors and potential gang rapes should have no place in this sentencing hearing. He's a criminal. And the severity of his negligence of pumping four hollow point bullets into a tiny toilet cubicle without allegedly even knowing who was behind that door is the only factor that should be taken into consideration. If prison conditions are poor and dangerous, that should be taken up with the government at some other time and in some other place on behalf of ALL prisoners. In the meantime, this hearing should focus on the crime and the punishment for committing said crime.

When Judge Mlambo approved the media application allowing the trial to be broadcast live, one of the reasons he stated was to ensure the openness of SA's judicial system and to eliminate the perception that the rich and famous are treated with kid gloves. How ironic that the openness of this trial proved exactly what the perception has always been. Masipa has one more opportunity to slightly alter that perception by throwing the book at him with the maximum sentence, or at least sentencing him to some length of time behind bars. But sadly I have little faith in her anymore, so I'm not holding my breath.

Hi Greater Than, nice to see you!! As for how house arrest and community service could rehabilitate a narcissistic killer, well, I'd like to see some examples, rather than accept the word of a) someone who hadn't even read the judgement, and b) someone who was paid for their opinion by the DT.

Rehabilitation? The guy can't even accept a few hours cleaning as punishment, for God's sake. He'd rather work with children. And being forced to stay at home for certain hours of the day, well, if that's seen as fair punishment for taking a life, then SA justice is injustice, and OP will be laughing all the way to the club.

 

[JudgeJudi]

#OscarPistorius offers money to compensate for killing #ReevaSteencamp instead of facing jail. Reeva's family refused

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s/11158043/Oscar-Pistorius-sentence-live.html …/QUOTE]

It also emerged on Tuesday that Pistorius offered a one-off payment of 375,000 rand (£21,300) to the Steenkamp family after Reeva's death, but they rejected it because they did not want to accept "blood money".

The offer was revealed by prosecutor Gerrie Nel during the hearing.

However, June and Barry Steenkamp accepted monthly payments of 6,000 rand (£340) from Pistorius, who requested that it be kept confidential, the Steenkamp's lawyer Dup de Bruyn said.

"They needed it. They needed to live," Mr de Bruyn said. "They are now in a position to repay it." Mr de Bruyn told reporters that the couple will not seek further financial compensation for the loss of their daughter”.

De Bruyn went on to say that he’d done some good deals and they were now in a much better financial position and added that they will not be pursuing a civil case.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...riend-who-testified-against-him-in-court.html


“Their lawyer, Dup de Bruyn, has since confirmed that they are in the process of repaying the funds”. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s/11158043/Oscar-Pistorius-sentence-live.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This witness, like nearly all the other DT witnesses, is argumentative, evasive, refuses to answer a simple question, goes off onto a rant unrelated to the question and can be downright rude.

Contrast that to those of the prosecution. Even if they stuffed up, they admitted it, had no reason to behave like the above, came to court to tell the truth and did, even if tortured by Roux.

No wonder Nel gets caught up in badgering these witnesses like AV and Derman, they show no respect for him or the court. They waste time, it's like pulling teeth for poor Nel , he gets flustered. I think this has been the Defense's strategy all along, get Nel hot and bothered, then he comes off looking bad. Masipa doesn't say a word, she has no control whatsoever. She just scolds people for their phones going off and announcing tea breaks and adjournments!!! She is the Judge ffs!! She is suppose to be the referee, help it along, she's ruined Nel's questioning on so many occasions during the trial, it's just not funny. Then she sits back and looks amused as Nel loses his stride, just when he was making a point he loses momentum and it all falls down. I don't blame him if he has a good stiff drink every night after a day of this crap.

And yet Roux was allowed to make mince meat of the witnesses who came forward, like they're the criminals!!!!! I wonder what he will say about the Steenkamps impact statement?! Get over it, Reeva wasn't all that??!!!!
OP is alive, come aboard the 'worship OP' train!!!!

/ Rant over

 

[ColonelMustard]

http://oscartrial.dstv.com/video/653784/category/0

This is the good Judge Chris (t) having a go at the characterisation of Oscar as the victim by media.
He says that expert witnesses are wrong.

I just watched this (Thanks, 808!) and am shaking my head about James Grant's comments.

I REALLY respect and appreciate the fact that he was willing to say, and to stand by his statement, that an error in law had been made by Masipa in her verdict.

Being as visible as he was when he said that, I suspect he may feel some personal responsibility for the fact that Masipa has taken so much heat, to the point of having to be assigned increased personal security. I'll bet some people have directly blamed Grant for it.

He's clearly upset, here, to the point of looking like he might cry - and says he is very upset that people think Masipa is either corrupt or stupid.

My comment/question to him is, "OK. Then what WAS it?"

If he's unable or unwilling to explain what it was or may have been, then I can't figure out why he's so upset by people who are trying their best to understand and come to terms with something they are invested in and/or have a vested interest in, which makes zero sense to them.

Speaking only for myself, until someone can give me a better answer, I'm afraid those two have to remain on the list of possibilities. Frankly, I don't want to have a list at all. What I want I want is the truth.

Channeling Nel for a minute, "Just give us the truth!"

 

[ColonelMustard]

This woman was the PERFECT final witness for OP.

I have never seen such an amazing cast of characters in ALL my life.

Each DT witnesses was more amazing than the next.

It was just like one of those tiny clown cars in the circus.

Every time it comes around, you can't believe that another one gets out.

 

[luvmygarden]

This woman was the PERFECT final witness for OP.

I have never seen such an amazing cast of characters in ALL my life.

Each DT witnesses was more amazing than the next.

It was just like one of those tiny clown cars in the circus.

Every time it comes around, you can't believe that another one gets out.

What a great way to explain it. And I totally agree. This clown car is wasting government time and money and making lots of people untrusting of this court system. All for a wailing, sniffling Man Baby murderer having temper tantrums.

 

[Fuskier]

These defense witnesses are vomit inducing.

Prison would "break" OP?? Please. Reeva's family and friends are the broken ones. They are the ones experiencing true loss. He has the luxury of being alive, even if in a prison cell.

How in the world could community service and house arrest rehabilitate him? Only the true punishment of incarceration would possibly scratch the surface of teaching him a lesson.

And if the prison conditions are less than desirable in SA, too bad. Arguing about cement floors and potential gang rapes should have no place in this sentencing hearing. He's a criminal. And the severity of his negligence of pumping four hollow point bullets into a tiny toilet cubicle without allegedly even knowing who was behind that door is the only factor that should be taken into consideration. If prison conditions are poor and dangerous, that should be taken up with the government at some other time and in some other place on behalf of ALL prisoners. In the meantime, this hearing should focus on the crime and the punishment for committing said crime.

When Judge Mlambo approved the media application allowing the trial to be broadcast live, one of the reasons he stated was to ensure the openness of SA's judicial system and to eliminate the perception that the rich and famous are treated with kid gloves. How ironic that the openness of this trial proved exactly what the perception has always been. Masipa has one more opportunity to slightly alter that perception by throwing the book at him with the maximum sentence, or at least sentencing him to some length of time behind bars. But sadly I have little faith in her anymore, so I'm not holding my breath.

Nice to see you here Greater Than; been wondering where you were; well said IMO.

 

[turaj]

the more I watch this pre sentencing the more I wonder about this system...Nell just dealt with a guy recommending sentence and the guy does not have a clue what OP even really did...it was almost embarassing. Then we have to listen about OP and all his accomplishments...just what Reeva's family need to hear...this is a big waste of time

 

[ColonelMustard]

PHOTO :: Annette Vergeer :: (leaving Jub Jub Sentencing)

See photo 3/8 (she is the one with two-toned hair) Click "Show captions" (bottom right)

http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/South-Africa/Jub-Jub-sentencing-20121205



*** INTERESTINGLY *** (or maybe not because it must be such a small professional community)

Check out photo 4/8. It's none other than OP's forensic psychiatrist Professor Merryll Vorster!
Her testimony preceded OP's 30-day out-patient evaluation for GAD, etc.


Click "Show captions" (bottom right)

------------

----> Here's one more of Annette and her daughters.

Scroll down to the 2nd set of multiple pics and then scroll through them to:

:: Ruzelle, Maryke and Annette Vergeer ::

http://roodepoortnorthsider.co.za/58969/northsiders-celebrate-christmas-in-july/

 

[jacalyn]

Arnold Pistorius?

You made my day. Almost on the floor LOL. Sad part, probably true.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

PHOTO :: Annette Vergeer :: (leaving Jub Jub Sentencing)

See photo 3/8 (she is the one with two-toned hair) Click "Show captions" (bottom right)

http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/South-Africa/Jub-Jub-sentencing-20121205



*** INTERESTINGLY *** (or maybe not because it must be such a small professional community)

Check out photo 4/8. It's none other than OP's forensic psychiatrist Professor Merryll Vorster!
Her testimony preceded OP's 30-day out-patient evaluation for GAD, etc.


Click "Show captions" (bottom right)

Interesting, sort of a combination Goth and punk look.

 

[808]

(From Flemjokes on FB.)