Trial Discussion Thread #56 - 14.15.10, Day 45 ~ sentencing~

[katydid23]

she was happy to sit through 4! defence witnesses. including the agent taking a couple of hours to list every charitable event op has ever attended. and this last witness putting together a partly out of date report on the prison system.

interesting that she wants to speed things up at this point, just as the dt have finished their piece.

She wants to speed it up because her mind is already made up. No use wasting anymore time with useless testimony that she will ignore anyway.

 

[kaos]

Not sure that Nel was telling the whole truth though. IIRC the UK confirmed Dewani was fit for trial and that he would be held in a psychiatric facility, in SA, where he would continue to be monitored, and that he remained fit until trial.

Didn 't he get given a caravan in the grounds of the psych hospital to live in while awaiting trial too? LOL, can you imagine how that would go down with other prisoners if OP got something like that as part of a prison sentence?

 

[jay-jay]

I think there's a bit of a maze system with the benches. It doesn't look like you can exit them at the right hand side where OP sits so he has to walk passed them. I wondered at the time when he said something to Gina Myers how he could have got that close to her but it must mean the first couple of benches have to share the same entry/exit. I don't like the idea that anybody should feel intimidated in a courtroom so I don't really approve of what Mark Bachelor and his friends are doing but at least OP should be getting a view on how he'll be treated should he decide to hit the Jo'burg nightlife again.

BBM .. oh, I see .. yes, I think you're right .. blimmin ridiculous, if you ask me!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Legal Round table of last night airing on EWN http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/live-audio

 

[Estelle]

Barry Roux's strategy seems to be that he decided to get this witness to just obfuscate and sneak in some points, a forewarning of how sentencing might go perhaps. He has been able to implant the idea of house arrest for three years with two days of community service per month into the Judge's and the Assessors' minds so that they will consider it as an option.

Now Nel has to present a strong case for 15 years in prison.

 

[kaos]

BBM .. oh, I see .. yes, I think you're right .. blimmin ridiculous, if you ask me!

When this first started I was astonished at the length of the bench OP sits on thinking it must be a regular occurrence to have them filled with defendants or they'd never have been designed that way.

 

[LemonMousse]

Not sure that Nel was telling the whole truth though. IIRC the UK confirmed Dewani was fit for trial and that he would be held in a psychiatric facility, in SA, where he would continue to be monitored, and that he remained fit until trial.

Yes - but I think that when they consider whether to extradite someone to face trial abroad, they look at the circumstances the accused will face if convicted.

If the prison situation is so appalling that it would violate human rights, then the person might not be extradited at all, regardless of the charge.

So the judge here in the UK would have needed to ensure that Dewani got all necessary psychiatric care AND would not be subjected to inhumane treatment if convicted.

I think that's the case - but don't take my word for it!

(in other words, Nel was right. The UK judge tacitly accepted that the prison system in SA was adequate and not the hell hole this woman was suggesting).

 

[patCee]

Not sure that Nel was telling the whole truth though. IIRC the UK confirmed Dewani was fit for trial and that he would be held in a psychiatric facility, in SA, where he would continue to be monitored, and that he remained fit until trial.

Just wanted to add to my earlier post, that by implication the UK were also accepting the SA prison system.

LemonMousse - just seen your post and of course you are correct. :blushing:

 

[jay-jay]

I think there's a bit of a maze system with the benches. It doesn't look like you can exit them at the right hand side where OP sits so he has to walk passed them. I wondered at the time when he said something to Gina Myers how he could have got that close to her but it must mean the first couple of benches have to share the same entry/exit. I don't like the idea that anybody should feel intimidated in a courtroom so I don't really approve of what Mark Bachelor and his friends are doing but at least OP should be getting a view on how he'll be treated should he decide to hit the Jo'burg nightlife again.

BBM .. I meant to have replied to this bit .. I'm really uneasy about this group here, and I really don't think they will be doing the PT any favours by either being there or testifying for them (if that is what they are going to do) because they are nothing more than thugs themselves. Add to that people like Trish (and Sam) Taylor .. and whilst I am pretty certain that everything they have said about OP is true, they will be made mincemeat of because there are reasons why that can be done. I sincerely hope that the PT have a set of witnesses lined up where they cannot be make a complete mockery of by the DT.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Quote Originally Posted by jay-jay View Post
I can't make out how OP is having to brush past those people where they are sitting on the benches .. he is sitting on his own in the middle of his own bench .. why the heck did he need to be walking through the bit where ST or JM was sitting??



Perhaps OP wanted to whisper a little bit like some "how could you sleep at night" or something?

it seems odd that there is no access for the accused from the right hand side... which would then avoid any 'pushing past' by anyone.

btw, is op still the accused? he is now guilty/convicted...

 

[jay-jay]

When this first started I was astonished at the length of the bench OP sits on thinking it must be a regular occurrence to have them filled with defendants or they'd never have been designed that way.

Actually, I'm wondering if that is how it has worked out because this trial is being televised and that was the only way they could set the camera up so that OP is in view the whole time. It might be that that bench is not normally used as 'the dock'.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'm watching the Telegraph and someone's inadvertently turned the camera on. Just saw someone with a mop walk by. Maybe going to give it OP for a bit of a practice.

 

[sleuth-d-]

seeing the steenkamp's lawyer collecting printouts from the journos, i believe that he is the same guy that has been sitting at mrs s' side for most of the trial. that is a fair chunk of lawyer-time - any thoughts on who is paying for this?

 

[JudgeJudi]

A black plastic bag and a long white extension cord. So that's where the missing cord got to. OP will feel right at home now.

 

[east2west]

Why does AV's voice have to increase an octave on the last syllable?

I can't think when I've ever heard such an irritating voice.

It's been referred to on previous threads as "upspeak". I believe the witness Carice Viljoen had a similar inflection. I'm not sure though if Speech Pathology refers to that particular inflection as such. Does any member know? Curious.

 

[jay-jay]

it seems odd that there is no access for the accused from the right hand side... which would then avoid any 'pushing past' by anyone.

btw, is op still the accused? he is now guilty/convicted...

BBM - you're right .. I still keep calling him 'the accused'! .. 'the convicted' doesn't sound quite right though!

 

[WilliamMunter]

Mandy Wiener: Here's my guess on state witnesses - James Smalberger from corr. services, Gina Myers, Trish Taylor, Jared Mortimer. Thoughts?
https://twitter.com/MandyWiener/status/522327824653643776

Someone from Correctional Services certainly, Kim Martin possibly (she seems a very strong lady). Gina Myers possibly; Trish Taylor and Jared Mortimer doubtful - Roux will put them through the mill under cross.

 

[K.T]

Posted before but SA is under the triad of Zinn for sentencing:

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/sentencing-guidelines/southafrica.php

It has a big problem as it doesn't talk about victim impact unlike many other countries and continents. I think it shows in the treatment of crime too, especially against women.

 

[kaos]

it seems odd that there is no access for the accused from the right hand side... which would then avoid any 'pushing past' by anyone.

btw, is op still the accused? he is now guilty/convicted...

The courtroom in my city has stairs leading straight into the dock to bring prisoners up from the cells but it also has the wee gates for witnesses to go through to get to the stand. It may be that the gate there is to limit the ability for a quick courtroom escape but then that's stupid in itself as that's assuming they can't leap that height lol.

 

[WilliamMunter]

seeing the steenkamp's lawyer collecting printouts from the journos, i believe that he is the same guy that has been sitting at mrs s' side for most of the trial. that is a fair chunk of lawyer-time - any thoughts on who is paying for this?

I read somewhere he was doing it pro bono

ETA:

Media inquiries are directed to a leading criminal lawyer Dup de Bruyn who has agreed to represent the Steenkamps pro bono. "They needed me," he explained. "They were really hounded and needed a buffer. They're very traumatised and, with all these days coming up, everybody's beginning to phone and we're trying to protect them. There are more requests than I can handle."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/07/steenkamp-family-greenbushes-oscar-pistorius-trial