Trial Discussion Thread #59 - 14.21.10, Day 48 ~ sentencing~

[foxbluff]

Yeah, I'm doubtful too but would love to be proven wrong. I think the main reason why the state might, from what commentators are saying, is not against the (lenient IMO) sentence but the whole issue of how she came to her CH verdict. Many are saying that it has left much uncertainty re CH vs dolus eventualis, which was a grey and uncertain area of law in any case, so that the NPA would want/need to sort that out. And I guess if you want to clarify the law, this one would be a good one to do it on as everyone will be aware of it.

BBM - I've no doubt that you're right about that !!

My gut instinct (and, yes, it's not always right) is that a Court of Appeal will simply uphold the Judge's decisions.

And I have a tiny fear that a Court of Appeal might possibly reduce verdict/sentence...

Bottom line: I think it's best for both sides to accept the Judge's rulings and get on with other cases.

 

[Aika]

Friend of Pistorius, and ex prisoner Kenny Kuene

I saw him on TV after the sentencing today. He said it was not fair for OP. They asked him: "What about fairness for the Steenkamps?" He said: "I’m not talking about the Steenkamps".

 

[Reader]

From someone who has not been able to post much lately, I want to give a big 'thank you' to all the posters here, and those who have left, for analyzing, explaining and keeping us up to date on the case and trial. Great work!

I agree it has been a travesty of justice and hope the prosecution appeals. I found this in a comment from one of the articles today and think it defines 'retribution' better than I've ever seen - retribution which was needed but not received for Reeva:

That it should be “retributive”, a mere expression of society’s rage, is primitive theology. It is trotted out when no other reason for imprisonment can be imagined.

------

Not really.
It needs to be retributive, because if it wasn't, then retribution would be left to individuals.
As it currently works, if you kill my brother, society says I don't take revenge against you because that leads to an endless cycle of violence and revenge as your brothers then come after me and so on. Instead the legal system carries out a measured and proportionate level of punishment to ensure that the severity of punishment isn't decided by individual vindictiveness.

If you remove punishment from the legal system, you are not removing the desire for reprisal. You're just leaving it up to the victim to carry out themselves. If murder does not lead to punishment then, by definition, murder in reprisal cannot lead to punishment. If you can kill my brother and go free, then I can kill you and go free. That's how society breaks down into warring tribes and the "king of the jungle" mentality where the most warlike people hold all the power.

Here is an article I found on OP entering the prison and an interview with the commissioner:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-placed-in-cell-1.1768640#.VEbG37nD9jp

 

[Ncl1968]

I am under the impression both sides knew the outcome before today
I watch op reaction to the sentance a few times today ..he did not flinch..ok he may be medicated but i also watched his sister just off to op left she did not flinch ...
I wonder if they was told yesterday or early in the morning and if so is that legal?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

~rsbm~

I was watching Sam Taylor's mum being interviewed earlier on the news and she was saying how she had to provide a massive amount of emotional support for him, especially when he went to the 2012 Olympics and he spoke to her just before he was meant to travel to London and was in tears saying he didn't want to go .. and she had to coax him to get in the taxi and then be on the phone to him constantly on the way to getting onto the plane, just to help him actually do it. What a freakin wuss .. jeeez!!!

JJ, that's downright bizarre! Why in the world wouldn't he want to go to the 2012 Olympics? It was his Holy Grail for years!

The guy is a worse mess than we even know.

If these and future claims that no doubt will pop up are true, he's got multiple, extremely serious issues, not the least of which are anger and cowardice.

 

[vansleuths]

BBM .. the problem is that justice isn't about satisfying the victims, it's about a number of things .. it's about being a deterrant, it's about setting (or rather 'not') setting precedents, it's about making sure society does not take the law into it's own hands. I know that June herself just wants the truth and not vengence and I can totally understand and appreciate that .. and god bless her and all her family for what they've been through .. but that's not what the justice system is all about at the end of the day, that is only part of it. My real worry now is that men will think they can do what they like with women, treat them appallingly, shoot them if they want to or if they've had a bad day, then make up some *advertiser censored* and bull story, and just get away with a few months in prison. That's just not on in my book.

BIB. I'm male, this trial hasn't made me consider treating my wife badly or getting a gun and using the Pistorius defence.

There will always be a segment of society that will be prone to fits of anger and violence, but if they strive for the Pistorius defence, it's very unlikely that it would be successful for most defendants. The reason behind this is Pistorius was lucky in that he had his disability, superb lawyers, media support and many more things that allowed him to push his version forward.

The average Joe wouldn't.

I can't imaging the average Joe saying the police tampered with the scene, I scream like a woman, I had a startle but I also shot in defence of myself and my GF. It just wouldn't fly.

 

[Aika]

I’ve been thinking: we were discussing today that Masipa gave him 5 years (the CH) and 3 suspended (Tasha). Conditon was no gun related crime.

Someone (sorry, I can’t remember who) came with a very valid point that it doesn’t make sense - how can OP commit a gun related crime while in jail - 5 years longer than 3. But now I get it - she knew he would be out in 10 months.

 

[lithgow1]

Assuming his sentencing stands, does this mean that OP will be under house arrest until 2019 or can that be reduced after serving a certain period of time under house arrest?

I really don't know. I imagine that there would be a minimum time (a year or two maybe) and then it may go to a parole type situation, with some conditions still but not the full house arrest rules? But that's a total guess. I suppose things will become clearer over the coming days as people come to grips with the sentence and all its ramifications.

 

[kaos]

<snip>
Re: Oscar's incarceration
Why would anyone think he would be "training" while imprisoned? Training for what? I do not think any prison anywhere is accommodating professional athletic style training, are they? I cannot imagine a scenario where Oscar would be needing his blades while incarcerated. Perhaps he can learn some humility while there by assisting the blind and wheelchair bound inmates who will be fellow inmates on his hospital ward.

I suppose we should all be grateful he is not going into the same system as Joran Vandersloot which allowed him to impregnate a woman while incarcerated.

I was the one who posted that he'd get his blades. The prison official made a huge deal about OP being well catered for which included athletics. Prosthetics are considered to be replacement body parts which sometimes have to be adapted to fit their purpose. I'm no bleeding heart liberal but I'm aware he'll have rights within the prison and that will include his right to exercise - for which, he needs his blades. He'll also possibly need adjustments to his prosthetic legs as something like a loss of weight will alter how they fit so I'd also expect either a few trips to specialised hospitals or doctors to be going out there to cater to his needs.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/10/16/pistorius-can-train-in-prison-modise

"There are sports and recreational facilities available in our centres," acting national commissioner of correctional facilities Zach Modise said.

"We also have offenders that are taking part in athletics, soccer, rugby and boxing."

He said that inmates even took part in sporting events and competed with other inmates.

 

[AW2B]

Loving this so much it's now my iPad wallpaper....thx to whoever linked it above

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61867&d=1413895538

I will change it to "START crying..I'm not done with you..Here is your blue bucket"

 

[Aika]

JJ, that's downright bizarre! Why in the world wouldn't he want to go to the 2012 Olympics? It was his Holy Grail for years!

The guy is a worse mess than we even know.

If these and future claims that no doubt will pop up are true, he's got multiple, extremely serious issues, not the least of which are anger and cowardice.

I uploaded the letter OP sent to Trish and Samantha during that time - you&#8217;ll get a clear picture of how messed up he was:

http://cl.ly/Xses

In case you don&#8217;t want to download - direct link to PDF:
http://f.cl.ly/items/2c2L0C1c273i2u0L0r0D/AWTH-letter.pdf

 

[jay-jay]

There are processes available if someone feels the judge made an error in her ruling and that is the PT can appeal. I guess many of us will be on pins and needles for the next 14 days to see if this actually happens. If it doesn't, then that's the end of the case.

BBM .. and Pistorius will have gotten away with murder. How can that ever be right? (<<-- that's not aimed at you, by the way, just a general statement).

 

[fox1lady]

In prisons in the UK people only have to serve half their sentence if they behave inside. I guess it's just a given, it isn't stated at sentencing. Masipa shouldn't have made it a maximum 5 years; minimum 5 would have been more fitting imo

 

[kaos]

Sky News said he'll be entitled to 45 prison visits a year - no more than 5 in one month. They didn't say how many were allowed at any one time though.

 

[jay-jay]

I uploaded the letter OP sent to Trish and Samantha during that time - you&#8217;ll get a clear picture of how messed up he was:

http://cl.ly/Xses

Yup, I read that letter the other day, and I felt like I had been transported back to when my abusive/violent/messed up ex partner used to send similar types of emails to me .. people like him are SUCH hard work .. and you can already see how Reeva was getting pissed of with it when she said in that Whatsapp message 'it's a difficult thing to console you, baba ' .. honestly, I reckon she'd just about had enough of it. She was deffo going to leave him that night. Deffo.

 

[Aika]

Yup, I read that letter the other day.

Hopefully I&#8217;ll have time tomorrow to upload a section of the book where Trish T. talks about him leaving for the Olympics. He phoned her after the race (the one he lost) and was completely out of it. She was very worried.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Amazing how one second of maniacal, murderous RAGE can utterly transform one's idyllic life into a barren, unrecognizable landscape.

 

[vansleuths]

BBM .. and Pistorius will have gotten away with murder. How can that ever be right? (<<-- that's not aimed at you, by the way, just a general statement).

It can never be right, people should always be charged and punished for their true crimes. Unfortunately, we've seen from the beginning of time that life isn't always fair. If you're rich and white, you tend to get better justice.

While I don't agree with Masipa's verdict, I do accept it (hoping also for an appeal).

Sadly, the decision to appeal won't be based on just justice alone. The NPA will have to look at legal costs involved with such a challenge.

 

[vansleuths]

Amazing how one second of maniacal, murderous RAGE can utterly transform one's idyllic life into a barren, unrecognizable landscape.

View attachment 61944

What an amazing picture!

 

[Paul_1900]

Wow. So much.

~rsbm~


The Steenkamps: While I feel sorry for them for the loss of their daughter, I also feel sorry that they have been okay with accepting money all this time from the Pistorius clan. And I wonder if the promise of ongoing money is some of the reason they are so "okay with" the sentencing.

GREAT post !!!

But re. money taken by Steenkamps pls have a look at Judge Greenlands opinion. I don't know if posted here or somewhere else before, but it is from his FB page apparently.


"An explanation by Judge Chris Greenland about the monthly payments.
The Steenkamps Accepting Money from Oscar Pistorius.
Nonsensical Hype.
It is really quite simple.
At that time the Steenkamps were inclined to mount a civil action for loss of support ... and there can be absolutely no doubt that their lawyer would have insisted on this.
When OP then tendered R6,000.00 per month, they had to make a decision.
I would have advised them, for very good legal reasons, to do exactly what they did .. i.e, accept the payments and give notice that these would be set off against whatever was awarded on the loss of support suit.
NOT accepting the payments would have embarrassed their claim that they were in need of support, that Reeva had been affording them.
It is the law that a parent has no case for loss of support unless the support is/was actually needed.
So refusing or returning the payments by OP would have been inconsistent with a claim that they were in need.
In short .. there is NOTHING wrong, peculiar or inconsistent about what they did.
In law, they really had little option,but to accept the payments until their loss of support claim was resolved in law.
It follows that now that they have decided not to pursue the loss of support claim they are returning the money as the acceptance of the money was on the basis that they were in need of support that Reeva had been affording them.
Their actions accords entirely with what any good lawyer would have insisted on.
Hope this clears all this silly hype up "