Trial Discussion Thread #59 - 14.21.10, Day 48 ~ sentencing~

[Lux et Veritas]

I normally do not wish bad things on people.

However, I do make one exception for vile, brutal sociopaths.

I wish for Oscar:

cold
dark
fear
loneliness
desperation
panic
terror
hopelessness
pain
powerlessness
endless closed locked doors with no escape
Every conceivable emotion that Reeva suffered in that tiny deathtrap magnified a thousandfold.

“I'm scared of u sometimes and how u snap at me and of how u will react to me.”
- Reeva Steenkamp

I also wish for Oscar that no physical harm ever comes to him.

This is crucial.

The great, dark Unknown that silently surrounds him day and night will be his constant torment.

Sometimes the most brutal punishment is one’s own mind.

“A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once.”
- William Shakespeare

It will be fascinating to see what kind of man emerges from Kgosi Mampuru Prison.


ABOVE ALL - I wish the Steenkamp family and dear friends Peace and Light and Love forever.

 

[soozieqtips]

Here you go jay-jay.

"Steenkamp’s mother, June, said justice had been served. When it was put to her that, a sixth of the way into his sentence, after only 10 months, Pistorius would be eligible to apply to serve the rest under house arrest, she replied: “It doesn’t matter. He’s going to pay something.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rt-sentence-oscar-pistorius-jailed-five-years

"For a trial that has seen sobbing, vomiting and much melodrama, the reaction from both families to the climactic moment was muted and stoical. But when Masipa finished, Pistorius was quietly tearful. He stepped out of the dock, leaving behind four white roses from a well-wisher and his green sick bucket. He clasped the hands of family members, passing his designer watch to an uncle for safe keeping. There were a few consoling words.

Then the hero of the 2012 London Olympics was led by a police officer down a bleak staircase to the holding cells. He descended 23 steps, one of them badly chipped, with a handrail whose paint was scratched and, in the gloomy basement, walked through a plain wooden door. About an hour later, Pistorius emerged with a clutch of police officers who escorted him past the cameras to an armoured vehicle and Kgosi Mampuru II prison. Formerly Pretoria Central, the jail was once notorious for hanging apartheid-era political prisoners".

 

[cottonweaver]

Pistorius Jailed just aired on BBC World News

Pretty mediocre really.
Barry Bateman at least talked about unanswered questions eg missing phone.

Law prof stephan Terblanche reckoned that JM sentencing summary was excellent but would not be drawn on whether either her sentence or verdict was apt. He was looking uncomfortable and dodging it and finished by saying - she was the judge, she heard all the evidence da da da. He added that, according to SA law, OP can't profit by writing a memoir about the crime directly or indirectly, although this had never actually been tested in a court of law.

Next up was a Prof Rachel Jewkes from Medical Research Council, based in Pretoria - she was no holds barred, said the sentence was "incredibly light" and spoke about 3 women a day killed in intimate partner violence in SA.

Finally jean jacques cornish, veteran sports journo over there, had followed OP career from start. He didn't mince his words and said that it was significant that in SA opinion, OP had fast gone from hero to zero, indeed by time he appeared at bail hearing. Also he commented that most people in SA thought OP was a murderer and had got off lightly and was adamant that he would never be rehabilitated in SA public opinion*. Worryingly though he stated that he might end up mentoring young athletes as part of his community service!!!!

*Doubtless this sort of opinion will get right up Arnold's nose!

 

[LinasK]

I'll take 5 years, as long as he's not out in 10 months,- all better than 16 hours of community service cleaning statues!!!

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Somebody said on Sky News that inmates are locked in their cells for 23 hours a day? I can't see that happening with OP. There's a gym in the hospital wing, so I'm sure he'll want to use that to stay in some sort of physical shape, even though his career is over. And how will he manage if he's confined for 23 hours? I'm wondering about his psychological state if he doesn't interact with anyone except for an hour each day. Will Uncle Arnold be able to negotiate more outside time for him? I think OP would go stir crazy locked up for 23 hours a day in his cell. And before anyone asks, no, I'm not feeling sorry for him!! I'm just curious as to if the 23 hour rule would apply to him, or whether his family would argue his 'vulnerability' and 'mental issues' means he can't be confined like 'normal' prisoners.

Not if he has his phone and bible with him! He can tweet bible verses all the time.

 

[jay-jay]

:floorlaugh: Made me laugh because it's true, he's already yesterday's news, and I had a flash of memory when I was a kid and had my chippies wrapped in newspaper. Nice flashback.

:thumb:

 

[foxbluff]

James Grant ‏@CriminalLawZA 3h3 hours ago
I will be surprised if Nel does not appeal.

AND

David Dadic
I believe (hope) they will.

Interesting.

Personally, I don't think either side will appeal.

 

[lithgow1]

Don't think this has been posted yet - it's an interesting read.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/oscar-pistorius-fall-from-grace-south-africa

 

[Susza]

It all seems a little unclear but this gives some info.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Traveling_with_a_criminal_history

Thanks a lot for your help, WilliamMunter!

 

[Fuskier]

James Grant ‏@CriminalLawZA 3h3 hours ago
I will be surprised if Nel does not appeal.

AND

David Dadic
I believe (hope) they will.

Good. It needs to be done IMO.

 

[delilah]

Don't know if it is jealousy - but I had a troubling feeling growing throughout the trial that somehow she "disapproved" of Reeva. I could't figure out why at all, given JM is a woman having overcome obstacles herself in lifetime, not having an easy start living in a township under Apartheid. Even more disturbing to me is the fact she showed this enormous compassion with OP. Still a big conundrum for me

I know what you mean. While others on here have said over the last few months that JM was not sympathetic towards RS, I didn't really buy that, but today I thought her comments were just that - unsympathetic, rather cold and dismissive - and a stark contrast with what she said about the blubbering, remorseful OP.

Which made me wonder if she is just a little contemptuous of someone who was bright enough to get a law degree but, instead of making a valuable contribution to society as a result of that, chose a frivolous and mindless career in modelling and reality TV.

Even if so, that should have zero to do with the fate of OP.

 

[RainCheck]

IPC: Pistorius cannot compete for 5 years
Despite a possible early release, Pistorius will only be able to compete after 5 years. PRETORIA - The International Paralympic Committee (IPC) has confirmed to EWN Sport that the earliest Oscar Pistorious will be allowed to compete is 2019.



So looks as though nowhere to go now for OP.

Apologies if this, from the IPC has already been posted.

I believe this is greater punishment for him than time in prison. I very pleased with the 5 year sentence. I was frankly shocked he got any time at all. Banning someone like him from competing for 5 years will make him go nuts! He won't handle it well and he'll be 32 before he can compete again. The best years of his physical abilities will pass by. There is such a dramatic difference in your body's ability to perform and recover at 27 compared to 32.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Wow. So much.

Re: The judge

I had withheld any judgment of her throughout the trial. But upon listening to her reading of her reasoning for the verdicts, I lost faith in her judgment right then and there. I too believe she made up her mind what verdict she wanted FIRST, then went back and tried to fit the "reasoning" to her chosen verdict.

That this judge totally disregarded the testimony of the "ear witnesses" left me reeling. Did she think these people were sitting there lying? Making things up? And then, accepting OP's story despite his obvious lying while on the stand? Well, what can you say?
Even down to small things like her statement that Oscar "tried to save Reeva's life". What, she thinks him putting his finger in Reeva's mouth was "saving her life"? Did she not even understand that with a head injury that left brain matter all over the back of the commode, the poor woman was dead right then and there? Oscar says she was breathing? Yeah, right.

Finally, this judge displayed where she is actually coming from by her only reference to the victim during sentencing being "she was good in front of a camera". That just says so much. About this judge. Indeed, I hope this is her last case.

It is obvious this judge got things wrong. That's obvious to those who followed the case closely. The "good old boys club" that exists within judicial systems everywhere prevents much of the criticism of a sitting judge. But Prosecutors are stuck with these kinds of errors. So I am hoping there is a decision to appeal the verdict in this case.

On a more personal basis about this judge: She seemed at times quite confused. And her reading aloud of both the verdict and the sentencing documents was belabored, to be charitable. I wondered if she has "good days" and "bad days" regarding her physical disability. I also wondered about use of pain and/or other medications when someone has what appears to be a chronic condition.

And yes, she surely knew what the parameters were for the 5 years sentence. Actually, I think we are lucky he got that from her and that it may have only been the outrage about how she bungled the verdict that brought about the 5 year sentence.


The Steenkamps: While I feel sorry for them for the loss of their daughter, I also feel sorry that they have been okay with accepting money all this time from the Pistorius clan. And I wonder if the promise of ongoing money is some of the reason they are so "okay with" the sentencing.


Nels: I think he did a very good job with what he had to work with. And I think he is incorruptible. He will surely have a strong input on whether or not the verdict is appealed. I hope he lives up to his reputation as a pit bull.

Did we read at the beginning of this case that this would be his last prior to retiring or no? I can't remember.


Re: Oscar's incarceration
Why would anyone think he would be "training" while imprisoned? Training for what? I do not think any prison anywhere is accommodating professional athletic style training, are they? I cannot imagine a scenario where Oscar would be needing his blades while incarcerated. Perhaps he can learn some humility while there by assisting the blind and wheelchair bound inmates who will be fellow inmates on his hospital ward.

I suppose we should all be grateful he is not going into the same system as Joran Vandersloot which allowed him to impregnate a woman while incarcerated.

 

[RainCheck]

I know what you mean. While others on here have said over the last few months that JM was not sympathetic towards RS, I didn't really buy that, but today I thought her comments were just that - unsympathetic, rather cold and dismissive - and a stark contrast with what she said about the blubbering, remorseful OP.

Which made me wonder if she is just a little contemptuous of someone who was bright enough to get a law degree but, instead of making a valuable contribution to society as a result of that, chose a frivolous and mindless career in modelling and reality TV.

Even if so, that should have zero to do with the fate of OP.

It should have nothing to do with it, but you know it did.

 

[lithgow1]

Interesting.

Personally, I don't think either side will appeal.

Yeah, I'm doubtful too but would love to be proven wrong. I think the main reason why the state might, from what commentators are saying, is not against the (lenient IMO) sentence but the whole issue of how she came to her CH verdict. Many are saying that it has left much uncertainty re CH vs dolus eventualis, which was a grey and uncertain area of law in any case, so that the NPA would want/need to sort that out. And I guess if you want to clarify the law, this one would be a good one to do it on as everyone will be aware of it.

 

[delilah]

Interesting.

Personally, I don't think either side will appeal.

not sure I do either. Defence won't, for sure. And with the steenkamps saying they are ok with the verdict and wanting desperately to move on, I don't think the state will have the stomach for it either. I presume they have shed loads of cases to prosecute and may not have the time or resources to go through this one again.

I hope I'm wrong though, as that would only be good news for potential murderers who want to 'do an Oscar' after killing their partners.

 

[soozieqtips]

A plethora of voices are emerging to offer mitigation, from his uncle Mike, who maintained he “could never see Oscar doing what happened in the room that evening”, to friends who insist that he “loved Reeva deeply”.

And yet Pistorius, both as sportsman and public figure, has been sentimentalised quite enough.

Amid any mawkishness at his ruin we risk, crucially, losing sight of the fate of Steenkamp.

For she is the one who no longer has any voice at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tection-against-his-tragic-fallibilities.html

 

[vansleuths]

BBM .. I disagree .. I believe his jail time should fit his crime, and I don't believe that he should be treated any differently to anyone else. Let's not forget that the verdict was incorrect in the first place, this should've been a sentencing for a murder not manslaughter.

BIB

Who says that her verdict is wrong? She is after all, the judge, the person who is given the final authority to make a decision in a case, the person whose decision is then respected and abided to. I know that there have been lots of lawyers that have said that her decision is wrong, but there are also many that have backed her on her verdict.

Unlike a jury trial, this is a case decided by just a judge with her two assessors.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the NPA appeals this verdict for clarity but this is the ruling of the court for now.

 

[soozieqtips]

not sure I do either. Defence won't, for sure. And with the steenkamps saying they are ok with the verdict and wanting desperately to move on, I don't think the state will have the stomach for it either. I presume they have shed loads of cases to prosecute and may not have the time or resources to go through this one again.

I hope I'm wrong though, as that would only be good news for potential murderers who want to 'do an Oscar' after killing their partners.

Five years is a semi-acceptable result when so many of us (myself included) didn't think he'd see a single day in jail. But 10 months is just insulting. I realise Reeva's parents accept the sentence, but as you say, what about other potential murderers? They'll feel easier now about shooting their partner through a door, or hovering by the bed on their way back from the toilet. I imagine there are many many potential murderers out there who would think 10 months in jail is a very fair exchange for killing their partner. Masipa could have avoided this by handing down a minimum, rather than a maximum term.

 

[whiterum]

Not if he has his phone and bible with him! He can tweet bible verses all the time.

Maybe Aimee should also have packed his cheetah legs in the Woolies bag, so he can outrun ' The General ' if ever their paths should cross lol .