Trial Discussion Thread #59 - 14.21.10, Day 48 ~ sentencing~

[Interested Bystander]

Things we lost in the Pistorius fire: Reeva, truth, justice

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...torius-fire-reeva-truth-justice/#.VEasjr7ZXzJ

“Society cannot always get what they want. Courts do not exist to win popularity contests but to dispense justice,” Judge Thokozile Masipa said when she handed down sentence against Oscar Pistorius. There was never going to be universal acceptance of Pistorius’s sentence, no matter what it was. But why do we feel so uneasy about the outcome of this trial – a five-year sentence on the main charge of culpable homicide? Why is there a sense that there was no justice for Reeva Steenkamp’s violent death? Perhaps it is because Pistorius will actually be out of prison in less than a year, still feeling sorry for himself? Or is it that we remain troubled that this was a crime of passion that could not legally be proven?

That is an absolutely excellent report and reflects what most of us feel. Thank you for posting it.

 

[Aika]

Sky News - interview with Trish Taylor
https://skynews.grabyo.com/g/v/OFmKO5pzDrF

 

[whiterum]

If she knew that sentencing him to no more than 5 years meant he'd only have to serve 1/6th of his time before being considered for house arrest, then it makes a mockery of her saying "The following is what I consider to be a sentence that is fair and just both to society and to the accused".

It is a mockery , she should have said 5 years minimum. She would be well aware of the actual time he would serve and if she thinks ten months is fair and just to society for blowing the brains out of a human being , then she certainly needs her bumps felt ( so to speak ).

 

[Interested Bystander]

Unfortunately, I don't understand the discussion concerning Botha as I started to follow this trial (as far as I could) with some delay.
If someone would have a moment to brief me briefly (oups, sounds strange, is that correct english?) I would be very grateful. But I will anyway do my best to catch up with "Botha".

This is a newspaper article at the time. It covers much of what went on. Poor old Botha was turned into a jibbering wreck by all accounts, mainly because he had not had time to ascertain the finer details of what he was saying, eg tests had not come back on what he thought was testosterone and he miscalculated the distance from OP's house to the home of someone who heard the screaming.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-s-team-punches-holes-in-state-s-case-1.1474207

 

[seattlechiquita]

what a load of cr.... really. Masipa is a poor, poor excuse for a judge. I hope she enjoys whatever the Pistorius family will certainly throw her way.

 

[cottonweaver]

Somebody said on Sky News that inmates are locked in their cells for 23 hours a day? I can't see that happening with OP. There's a gym in the hospital wing, so I'm sure he'll want to use that to stay in some sort of physical shape, even though his career is over. And how will he manage if he's confined for 23 hours? I'm wondering about his psychological state if he doesn't interact with anyone except for an hour each day. Will Uncle Arnold be able to negotiate more outside time for him? I think OP would go stir crazy locked up for 23 hours a day in his cell. And before anyone asks, no, I'm not feeling sorry for him!! I'm just curious as to if the 23 hour rule would apply to him, or whether his family would argue his 'vulnerability' and 'mental issues' means he can't be confined like 'normal' prisoners.

Stir-crazy - Agreed. there is a pic of a single cell at this link:

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/8802bc...umane-environment-is-non-negotiable’-20142709

Could be a hospital cell as those single cells have loo, sink, cupboard, bed and sheets in the cell in contrast to the standard 20 to a cell set-up.

 

[foxbluff]

Things we lost in the Pistorius fire: Reeva, truth, justice

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...torius-fire-reeva-truth-justice/#.VEasjr7ZXzJ

“Society cannot always get what they want. Courts do not exist to win popularity contests but to dispense justice,” Judge Thokozile Masipa said when she handed down sentence against Oscar Pistorius. There was never going to be universal acceptance of Pistorius’s sentence, no matter what it was. But why do we feel so uneasy about the outcome of this trial – a five-year sentence on the main charge of culpable homicide? Why is there a sense that there was no justice for Reeva Steenkamp’s violent death? Perhaps it is because Pistorius will actually be out of prison in less than a year, still feeling sorry for himself? Or is it that we remain troubled that this was a crime of passion that could not legally be proven?

That one... the last sentence above BBM.

I struggled with that for a long time, but have come to peace with it.

I started coming to peace with it after studying the HoA(s) from both sides (the ones prior to the verdict), which caused me to suspect that the State didn't have enough evidence to meet their burden of proof.

 

[Paul_1900]

Directly from Big Brother house:

Correctional services: Offender Oscar Pistorius...has joined 8 other disabled inmates serving various teams at Kgosi Maphuru @eNCAnews

Correctional services: hospital section of KM accommodates 2 offenders with prosthetic legs, 2 blind offenders, 5 in wheelchairs @eNCAnews

Karyn Maughan
https://twitter.com/karynmaughan

If there is anything good about this trial it might be the attention drawn to SA prison conditions and treating their inmates. There is a couple of useful suggestion in below earlier posted article as to how OP could also "pay back to society" as notorious Uncle A. stated today.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opin...you-can-still-make-a-difference/#.VEa1eCKsWSq

I don't take any pleasure in seeing someone suffer or be treated inhumanely, applies to OP as well as any human being on earth. But I don't like justice being ignored - well knowing there's a difference between "applying the law" and "heartfelt justice being done".

JM sentence probably was well balanced considering it being based on the CH verdict - but that doesn't make her verdict any better or more right.
JMHO

 

[Lyra500]

Another reporter said on TV that Uncle Arnold would be checking to see that OP's being well looked after and would go back to court if he wasn't. Naturally.

Give me strength - where is that puke bucket?

 

[Lyra500]

I'm also wondering how the ear witnesses must be feeling today .. after all, they know what they heard that night. They must feel sick to their stomachs (although they probably had the first round of feeling like that when the verdict was delivered).

I think it must be really, really hard to let it go when you know what you heard.

I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing did not take a serious toll on the health of these witnesses. What with the totally disrespectful way they were treated by Roux followed by being completely dismissed by the judge and having that memory of hearing Reeva screaming for her life and knowing she died - just horrific.

 

[Lyra500]

She also clearly thought Reeva was not worthy of any respect as all she could find to say was that "she was good in front of a camera". I thought that was very telling.

Not just telling - utterly disgraceful.

 

[lithgow1]

James Grant ‏@CriminalLawZA 3h3 hours ago
I will be surprised if Nel does not appeal.

AND

David Dadic
I believe (hope) they will.

 

[Aika]

If there is anything good about this trial it might be the attention drawn to SA prison conditions and treating their inmates. There is a couple of useful suggestion in below earlier posted article as to how OP could also "pay back to society" as notorious Uncle A. stated today.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opin...you-can-still-make-a-difference/#.VEa1eCKsWSq

I don't take any pleasure in seeing someone suffer or be treated inhumanely, applies to OP as well as any human being on earth. But I don't like justice being ignored - well knowing there's a difference between "applying the law" and "heartfelt justice being done".

JM sentence probably was well balanced considering it being based on the CH verdict - but that doesn't make her verdict any better or more right.
JMHO

I feel the same - I have never wanted OP to suffer, but I want him to face up to what he did.
The poor in SA prisons suffer - the rich "buy" their privileges. I believe OP will do what the rich have done before him - buy himself a bearable time. Nothing will change for the poor I’m afraid.

 

[Paul_1900]

I've thought that all along, imo, JM considered RS was a dime a dozen. RS had beauty, compassion and brains, very easy to be jealous of imo.

Don't know if it is jealousy - but I had a troubling feeling growing throughout the trial that somehow she "disapproved" of Reeva. I could't figure out why at all, given JM is a woman having overcome obstacles herself in lifetime, not having an easy start living in a township under Apartheid. Even more disturbing to me is the fact she showed this enormous compassion with OP. Still a big conundrum for me

 

[jay-jay]

<modsnip>

Personally, I hope judges everywhere are inspired by Judge Marsipa. Her courtroom was dignified and respectful of all parties, and her rulings exquisitely balanced. I'm impressed.

Five years for OP. Long enough for him to be punished and yet also to remake his life. Reeva's parents thought the sentence just. That should be enough to quiet the howls for blood. If not, that speaks to the howlers themselves, not to the question of justice.

BBM .. Are we sure that they knew it would only be 10 months in jail at that point? I'm wondering if, as they were asked while walking out of the court, they thought at that point that it was 5 years in jail.

Edit: oh, I've just seen the full footage of them coming out of court, and the reporter did actually say to them he could be out in about a year and June said she was ok with that.

 

[geevee]

If the state is not going to appeal...I'm sorry to say that I can't help but think that they are all in it together..

Unfortunately I agree with this, there were just too many things not done on the State's part, Frank remained a ghost throughout, the phone had been wiped clean by the accused's own brother and no mention of that during trial, Reeva's handbag removed from the scene of his crime and no witness called to explain - just too much to not believe the State was a willing participant in the soft treatment of this killer. My mind could change if they wage a vigorous appeal of the verdicts and the sentence but if they have found 'solace' in the sentence it just doesn't seem likely at this point, imo.

Rest in peace Reeva, at least he has a bit of jail time, even though it's far too little for what he did to you, and he should be branded a murderer for that act.

 

[Paul_1900]

I'm also wondering how the ear witnesses must be feeling today .. after all, they know what they heard that night. They must feel sick to their stomachs (although they probably had the first round of feeling like that when the verdict was delivered).

I felt so bad for them hearing how Masipa dismissed their entire evidence - wondering like many if ever a person would come forward to testify. At a point I was even considering seriously whether she may be right that they were "not lying, but genuinly mistaken".

But I could not bring myself to the conclusion that more than 4 witnesses might be wrong about what they heard, not in this detail, not in this clearness - specially distinguishing male and female voices. Never ever were they influenced by any media to that extent.

 

[Aika]

That is an absolutely excellent report and reflects what most of us feel. Thank you for posting it.

Kim Martin's thoughts on this article:

Kim Martin
@dailymaverick @RanjeniM always such an accurate account of events, said so well... Thank you.

https://twitter.com/kimberleycpt/status/524654734331092992

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM .. Are we sure that they knew it would only be 10 months in jail at that point? I'm wondering if, as they were asked while walking out of the court, they thought at that point that it was 5 years in jail.

I think the reporter did mention the convicted killer might be out in less than a year, and June replied that it didn't matter, that at least he would pay (something like that). It seemed like everyone knew the sentence before it was announced, so June and Barry were probably aware of this 10-month farce. I think at this point, they'll just be grateful that the scum who killed their daughter is safely behind bars and not out partying and living life as if Reeva (the love of his life...) never existed.

 

[jay-jay]

I don't know ...can puking, howling, wailing Oz last even 10 months in prison?

He thinks he's a tough guy but he's just a coward at heart with a huge sense of entitlement.

~rsbm~

I was watching Sam Taylor's mum being interviewed earlier on the news and she was saying how she had to provide a massive amount of emotional support for him, especially when he went to the 2012 Olympics and he spoke to her just before he was meant to travel to London and was in tears saying he didn't want to go .. and she had to coax him to get in the taxi and then be on the phone to him constantly on the way to getting onto the plane, just to help him actually do it. What a freakin wuss .. jeeez!!!