Trial Discussion Thread #6 - 14.03.13-14, Day 9-10

[Interested Bystander]

That is not a living room, it's a braai/entertainment room...alot of homes have them, lol..south Africans are very well known for their love of braai's so a lot of homes have a room in the house with an indoor braai and bar area etc.

The link you quoted looks like the lounge, sadly I can't really see the pic clearly but I can't really see a mess...I see some couches, a coffee table on some sort of animal skin type carpet.

So much for all the speculation of trophies strewn all over the house and the 4-5 cell phones laying about, looks to me like Reeva didn't even have a cell with her in the bathroom. Nothing I heard today about the state of the house contradicts OP statement but I'm going to watch myself just now. I'm not in the least surprised there was so much blood, she had a fatal head wound among others, she WAS shot 3 times. If anyone knows where I can find a link from today's proceedings, Plse paste

Carol, you are dead right. I think it is a cowhide. So of no importance except that it is in the evidence photos. I have seen pictures of him in his home and noted that he had some hides. Today I cannot find a photo to check against. No matter which search string I use, all I get is info on the murder.

I didn't fall for the cups being thrown story. I felt she would not be that sort of person and I cannot imagine he would throw them, they were way too precious to him.

 

[foxbluff]

Two blackberrys in the bedroom, two iphones in the bathroom, and then there's OP's "other" iphone - making a total of 5 phones.

Did he use any of them to call for medical help?

 

[foxbluff]

Per ppl mag, a security guard called OP after hearing shots and OP told him everything was fine. Has that been confirmed? tia

 

[zwiebel]

I don't think it means anything, as the photographs were taken after he'd removed Reeva. He may have dragged her out. So inevitably the entire scene has been disturbed, and those bits of wood are not necessarily where they fell.

As for blood, well, even a small head injury will bleed copiously, so he's bound to have got plenty on himself, conveniently.

I am really not sure. There is pooling of blood outside the toilet door. Mostly intact too, and looks like more than one. Reeva was probably not moving at the time those pools were made, so it's hard to see how/why the wood got moved on top. The plank is resting in a pool.

Even if he started dragging and stopped just outside the bathroom for a rest, giving blood the chance to pool, how does the wood then get to fall on top of that pool? Did he drop Reeva to move the wood? Was the wood somehow on top of her and fell off into her pool of blood as Oscar recommenced dragging?

I just don't think the scene fits in with Oscar's story - although his defence may say the wood was moved by police and or others.

 

[bessie]

:seeya: We've moved!
If you haven't seen the new sub-forum in "Trials", click on the link here "Oscar Pistorius", or at the top of your screen, and have a look around. All of the trial threads, and the general discussion threads starting from last February are now located in this sub-forum.

You'll also notice "sticky" threads near the top with various titles. These are used to post photos, news links, timelines, and other case materials. I've copied over quite a few posts to get us started, but it's still a work in progress. You are all welcome to add items to the sticky threads, but please note:

• Links must accompany photographs and news snips.
• No more than 10% of a news article can be quoted.
• These are non-discussion, reference threads for reading and viewing only.

We'll also be opening topical threads. If you have an idea for a subject to explore in depth, let one of the mods here know. Harmony2, Coldpizza, Beach, and I are the primary mods/admin for the OP sub-forum, but any of the mods/admin listed at the bottom of the front page can help you. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to send them to us in a private message.


:tyou:

 

[zwiebel]

Per ppl mag, a security guard called OP after hearing shots and OP told him everything was fine. Has that been confirmed? tia

The security guard - whose name slips my mind - insisted again and again, under cross; "Mr Pistorius said everything was fine."

 

[james83]

The couch in this room? I missed that. I heard something about blood on leather seats and saw a pic posted of that, but thought that was in an area downstairs, off the 'portal'.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EmilySmithCNN/status/444062434329133056/photo/1?screen_name=EmilySmithCNN

To be honest i am not sure which couch it is but there where blood spots on a couch and a chair if i remember correctly, will have a look
for the photo's.

 

[zwiebel]

This morning I decided I needed to read something on this case beyond info provided by ppl mag.

I went to www.mirror.co.uk and read a transcript from, I believe yesterday, where Lt.Col. V. was testifying in CT. about the bat, bullets, and bathroom door. It gave me a headache trying to understand what he was saying. I must have read one of his answers six times before I gave up trying to figure out what he was saying.

Along about then, I looked at the time of day listings on the left hand side of the page and realized I should have started reading from the bottom up. Grrrh...

Well, reading from the bottom up didn't clarify much. I'm still trying to figure out why you can't push the bat into the indent it made in the door due to the bat having been swung hard when it made the indent?!?!?

It would appear that Lt.Col.V. has reversed his opinion and now thinks the bat was used after the shooting. Am I understanding that correctly? tia

As far as I can tell, because when you hit the wood hard, there is a small expansion as the object goes through, which then shrinks again (think he used as an example putting in, pulling out and then trying to put back in a nail in the same hole without a hammer). Almost impossible.

He also said OP twisted the bat when it went through, to push out the plank.

I dunno about bats through doors, but I back him up with the nail story - unless some dang fool has put it in sideways and then tried to knock it out with a hammer, in which case anything and everything will go in and out of the large hole left behind.

 

[foxbluff]

The security guard - whose name slips my mind - insisted again and again, under cross; "Mr Pistorius said everything was fine."

Thank you, zwiebel! OMG, that statement IMO is major to this case.

Now I'm jumping back to Lt.Col.V (perhaps someone can tell me what initials are being used for him?). I'm so disappointed in him as a forensic expert and fear he might help lose this case for the state... him combined w/one top notch defense atty. MOO

 

[zwiebel]

To be honest i am not sure which couch it is but there where blood spots on a couch and a chair if i remember correctly, will have a look
for the photo's.

No need for pics, I'm trying to work out the floors.

The reason I asked is because I'm a bit confused about the sitting rooms/lounges. It seemed to me the chairs which the detective said 'appeared to be leather' and had blood spots on were downstairs, near the door? That would make a little sense to me, with OP carrying a bleeding woman down, maybe sitting for a moment?

But blood in the upstairs lounge would be harder to explain, imo.

 

[Carol70]

Can any South Africans give me the name of a popular hardware store, or alternatively tell me the sizings of modern doors, if you have set sizes, please?

Builders Warehouse, think the link is
www.builders.co.za (my better half is having a love affair with that place, when he goes to the store, he showers, shaves and gets all dressed up haha ) HTH

 

[Interested Bystander]

Where exactly is this lounge? I am having a hard time putting all of these pieces together in any sort of context. TIA

I have found a couple of photos and I think my original link was the area inside the front entrance, rather like a large hallway. Not sure what they are called in SA. I have found another that I think probably shows the real lounge (see yellow arrow) but this is NOT the room I referred to.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...et-bat-baseball-bat-revolver-machine-gun.html

 

[foxbluff]

As far as I can tell, because when you hit the wood hard, there is a small expansion as the object goes through, which then shrinks again (think he used as an example putting in, pulling out and then trying to put back in a nail in the same hole without a hammer). Almost impossible.

He also said OP twisted the bat when it went through, to push out the plank.

I dunno about bats through doors, but I back him up with the nail story - unless some dang fool has put it in sideways and then tried to knock it out with a hammer, in which case anything and everything will go in and out of the large hole left behind.

Thank you again! BBM: I missed that part. I, too, understand the analogy about the nail.

Hopefully, I'm wrong abt a lot of things I'm thinking abt him and will have to stop thinking of him as Lt.Col.Keystone. I hope I am wrong. MOO

 

[Carol70]

To be honest i am not sure which couch it is but there where blood spots on a couch and a chair if i remember correctly, will have a look
for the photo's.

The leather couches is in the room shown with the animal hide. The railing for the stairs is above that area so if he was running down the stairs with her, it's very likely that spots of blood landed down below as he was moving down the stairs. Hope this helps

 

[Carol70]

No need for pics, I'm trying to work out the floors.

The reason I asked is because I'm a bit confused about the sitting rooms/lounges. It seemed to me the chairs which the detective said 'appeared to be leather' and had blood spots on were downstairs, near the door? That would make a little sense to me, with OP carrying a bleeding woman down, maybe sitting for a moment?

But blood in the upstairs lounge would be harder to explain, imo.

There is no upstairs lounge...he has a small lounge with his trophies and leather couches. His other lounge is in fact a braai room and you will more than likely find this lounge downstairs close to the pool area somewhere, not upstairs.

 

[sorrell skye]

No need for pics, I'm trying to work out the floors.

The reason I asked is because I'm a bit confused about the sitting rooms/lounges. It seemed to me the chairs which the detective said 'appeared to be leather' and had blood spots on were downstairs, near the door? That would make a little sense to me, with OP carrying a bleeding woman down, maybe sitting for a moment?

But blood in the upstairs lounge would be harder to explain, imo.

Hi Zwiebel!

Last year, pics of the interior of OP's house were posted.

The sofa that was described as having blood spots on it was downstairs, set against a wall directly below the handrail of the stairs. I think blood dripped on it when OP was carrying Reeva down the stairs.

 

[Carol70]

I'm half way through watching today's testimony and I have to say, I'm actually APPALLED at the translator. His first language is neither English nor Afrikaans. WTF??? No wonder there were so many complaints, listening to him, he made mistake after mistake.

And really, it's a crime to have such a cute court artist, he completely distracted me

 

[Carol70]

I have found a couple of photos and I think my original link was the area inside the front entrance, rather like a large hallway. Not sure what they are called in SA. I have found another that I think probably shows the real lounge (see yellow arrow) but this is NOT the room I referred to.

Nice clear pics...you can clearly see the stairs in the corner of the lounge pic.

The other pic with the dining area where you see the lounge in the back is great, so forgive my previous post about the 2 lounges, looks like he had a formal lounge and a TV room besides the braai room.

I would call the entrance exactly as you...entrance hallway/foyer.

 

[foxbluff]

So far behind and so little time to play catchup. I swear this is my last Q today. (Only because I need to go offline now.)

I'll come back tomorrow to see if I get an answer:
Question: Was there ever any discussion here about the possibility that OP carried her downstairs because he was trying to leave the house with the body in order to conceal the crime? tia and thanks for your patience.

 

[Carol70]

Two blackberrys in the bedroom, two iphones in the bathroom, and then there's OP's "other" iphone - making a total of 5 phones.

1 iPhone in the bathroom (black with the cover off making it appear as 2 phones) and 1 white iPhone found in the bedroom. There were other phones on his tv but these appear to be untouched and unrelated.