Trial Discussion Thread #6 - 14.03.13-14, Day 9-10

[Really?]

I am really not sure. There is pooling of blood outside the toilet door. Mostly intact too, and looks like more than one. Reeva was probably not moving at the time those pools were made, so it's hard to see how/why the wood got moved on top. The plank is resting in a pool.

Even if he started dragging and stopped just outside the bathroom for a rest, giving blood the chance to pool, how does the wood then get to fall on top of that pool? Did he drop Reeva to move the wood? Was the wood somehow on top of her and fell off into her pool of blood as Oscar recommenced dragging?

I just don't think the scene fits in with Oscar's story - although his defence may say the wood was moved by police and or others.

Maybe.......OP put the wood there after he dashed upstairs shortly after people started arriving......hhhhmmm.....that way he can say he had to pull the door planks out to reach for the key.

yeah (moo) Reeva was most likely bleeding profusely before she made it too the toilet door for refuge.

What about the bloody towels on the floor. Did OP clean Reeva's bloody hand smears off the door handles ???????

 

[FrancesB]

I posted a pic of the floorplan a while back, and there is an informal lounge upstairs, through which I believe Pistorius would have had to carry Ms Steenkamp, to get to the stairs.

 

[Carol70]

I posted a pic of the floorplan a while back, and there is an informal lounge upstairs, through which I believe Pistorius would have had to carry Ms Steenkamp, to get to the stairs.

Yep, thats right. Has a telly, lounge suite, coffee table type thing, the works and the only way to get to OP bedroom is to walk through this lounge.

Also, truth be told, I was actually surprised about the amount of blood, it's mostly just specks and splatters here and there. The way I was reading today, I was expecting a slaughter house from his bathroom to the front door. The bathroom is the bloodiest but that's to be expected.

 

[zwiebel]

Can't find that dark brown chair (did see it though, I swear) but found a tweet that the duvet off the bed was found crumpled on the floor. That's news to me.

So Oscar not only dived out of bed to shoot the 'burglar', he ripped off the duvet at the same time, leaving just a sheet? But still failed to notice Reeva was not in bed?? it is much easier to notice someone's not on a sheet, than not under a duvet....

https://mobile.twitter.com/barrybateman

 

[Really?]

Thank you, zwiebel! OMG, that statement IMO is major to this case.

Now I'm jumping back to Lt.Col.V (perhaps someone can tell me what initials are being used for him?). I'm so disappointed in him as a forensic expert and fear he might help lose this case for the state... him combined w/one top notch defense atty. MOO

My DH who has a British point of view says that OP will do NO jail time.....but may be fitted with an ankle bracelet.

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

The evidence is there, it looks to me like he possibly hit her with the bat before she made it to the bathroom

There was no evidence of this according to the ME.

 

[Carol70]

My DH who has a British point of view says that OP will do NO jail time.....but may be fitted with an ankle bracelet.

Lol, I don't think we use those here, I might be mistaken but can't recall anyone being sentenced to wear one.

 

[zwiebel]

Yep, thats right. Has a telly, lounge suite, coffee table type thing, the works and the only way to get to OP bedroom is to walk through this lounge.

Also, truth be told, I was actually surprised about the amount of blood, it's mostly just specks and splatters here and there. The way I was reading today, I was expecting a slaughter house from his bathroom to the front door. The bathroom is the bloodiest but that's to be expected.

I don't really think so. Reeva was supposed to have died in the toilet and been carried out by OP, so I don't see why there are all the pools of blood in the bathroom outside the toilet. Unless he said he laid her down there and I missed it.

The majority of blood is near the crime scene, but not quite in it, it seems to me.

 

[minor4th]

There was no evidence of this according to the ME.

And the police and the prosecutors ...

Edited - cuz I accidentally picked up an unrelated extra post :blushing:

 

[Really?]

I have found a couple of photos and I think my original link was the area inside the front entrance, rather like a large hallway. Not sure what they are called in SA. I have found another that I think probably shows the real lounge (see yellow arrow) but this is NOT the room I referred to.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...et-bat-baseball-bat-revolver-machine-gun.html

re: pic #1

Nice........is that a "wild west" Remington sculpture on the table ?

just curious.........guns and all, you know.....

 

[james83]

Is it possible for the judge to believe his story but charge him with murder anyway?, i.e he knew someone was in the toilet and must have known he could potentially kill whoever it was.

 

[Carol70]

I don't really think so. Reeva was supposed to have died in the toilet and been carried out by OP, so I don't see why there are all the pools of blood in the bathroom outside the toilet. Unless he said he laid her down there and I missed it.

The majority of blood is near the crime scene, but not quite in it, it seems to me.

Yes he did, he states he pulled her out the bathroom so she must have laid there for abit. And I believe she officially died at the bottom of the stairs.

I have come to the conclusion that the white phone might have been found at the bottom of the stairs next to Reeva body, that could be a back towel covering her and the wood on the side of the pic, part of the stairs...only because the phone is on tiles and there is blood splatter next to it....I can't see it anywhere in the bathroom.

 

[zwiebel]

excerpted quote:
There was no evidence of this according to the ME.

I wondered about this. If someone was bleeding from a scalp wound from a bat, maybe with a fracture underneath,and someone fired a glock directly into the wound from a short distance, would the original injury still be evident? Reeva's head sounded like it was a mess.

 

[21merc7]

My DH who has a British point of view says that OP will do NO jail time.....but may be fitted with an ankle bracelet.

I don't have my hopes set on any type of sentence, punishment, or monitoring, from what I have been reading all this time.


All that will happen is OP will be angry he had to waste his time and money (or family money) on this trial. Then he will take that out on some poor friend he uses, or some poor woman he meets, or even a stranger in a restaurant, and we will never hear a word about it.

JMO

 

[james83]

I don't really think so. Reeva was supposed to have died in the toilet and been carried out by OP, so I don't see why there are all the pools of blood in the bathroom outside the toilet. Unless he said he laid her down there and I missed it.

The majority of blood is near the crime scene, but not quite in it, it seems to me.

I wonder if the pool of blood in the toilet would give any indication to how long she was laying in the toilet between being shot and being carried out?.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes he did, he states he pulled her out the bathroom so she must have laid there for abit. And I believe she officially died at the bottom of the stairs.

I have come to the conclusion that the white phone might have been found at the bottom of the stairs next to Reeva body, that could be a back towel covering her and the wood on the side of the pic, part of the stairs...only because the phone is on tiles and there is blood splatter next to it....I can't see it anywhere in the bathroom.

When he said pulled her out of the bathroom, did he mean the toilet cubicle, or the bathroom itself, do you know?

 

[FrancesB]

As evidence was being shown on the court screen I was frantically taking screenshots and trying to write descriptions. I'd be in the middle of doing one and I'd hear other pics come up in court, so I couldn't get descriptions of all, but here's a mix of sofas and living rooms discussed in court today, 13 march 2014. Make of them all what you will. There is a dark (brown?) sofa in one of my screenshots.

If you watch the complete videos of the trial today, you should be able to place all of these pics.



There's a pic of Pistorius sitting on a brown leather sofa here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-shooting-paralympian-slept-1709132

 

[Estelle]

A while back (last year) we discussed hearing the there were "objects" all over the lounge. We thought maybe Oscar's cups etc but I came across this today. It is one of the photos in the evidence.

http://t.co/qSj40w3BSK

I cannot tell what the mess is - possibly packets of his herbal remedy? Could that have caused the argument?

Can someone copy and enlarge this photo and post it on here please?

I have always thought their argument started downstairs.

What about the blood on the chair? We often discussed that too. I never thought it could come from his carrying her down the stairs.

This is why Botha knew straight away that there was an argument.

Obviously OP thought if he carried her body downstairs, he might be able to explain the blood away.

IMO this proves an argument. I have often thought he tried to leave but he stopped her. Later he locked the bedroom door so she could not escape and held her captive.

 

[Estelle]

Wait, where are you getting two in the bedroom now?

Two blackberries in the bedroom.

 

[minor4th]

I thought it was stated today by the investigator that there were three phones found in the bathroom; two were actually two halves of the same phone, and then later a 'pure white' one was found. But I thought he meant found in the same place as the two halves - the bathroom??

I think this is still unclear. He either found 1 black/gray iphone and an iphone case in the bathroom, or he found two pieces of an iphone case in the bathroom. There was also a white iphone mentioned but it was not stated where that was found or even if it's part of this investigation lol - Von did not see it at the crime seen and was only shown the white phone at a later date.

It's possible the white phone was Oscar's phone that he held onto and turned over later.