Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[Patagonia]

I have been very puzzled why Oscar just threw that comment about Dr Stipp into his testimony.. it came out of the blue, and seemed to have no possible rhyme or reason for it.. an unguarded moment?? a long held conviction? a figure of speech?? cranky with Dr Stipp for testifying re womanly screaming?? a slur on radiologists in general? offended because Dr Stipp was an uninvited 'guest'? an attempt to place the blame on Dr Stipp for Reevas death due to medical malpractice??

I just don't know.

Because Oscar doesn't like Dr. Stipp, so he had to poke him a bit. And of course he doesn't like him, he came out of nowhere and uninvited... and now he even dared to testify for the Prosecution.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"City Press also reported that medication found in Pistorius' house after the murder was a herbal remedy used by men for extra energy in bed."

"According to Pistorius’ lawyers, the product is the legal homoeopathic remedy testis compositum."

"Sports physician Dr Jon Patricios told City Press it was commonly used to combat flagging sexual energy, but that athletes were advised not to use it because it could increase their testosterone levels."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/02/24/pistorius-must-rot-friend-s-father

 

[Val1]

Re disposing of body (bags, rope...), I can't understand OP's 911/netcare call. Maybe just completely panicked w/no plan.

MOO

Perhaps that 66 second call was actually to prevent anyone from coming, just in case anyone else in the neighbourhood had called them, there's been no evidence to support that OP did in fact talk to anyone and if so, what was said. He could have said oops sorry, it was a b*tt call, so sorry no need here. Kinda like when Baba called and he said everything was fine.

 

[Patagonia]

I saw it as blame shifting as after all, he isn't to blame for her death so it must have been somebody else to blame.

It's everybody's fault, except his. As per usual.

It's Reeva's fault because she forgot to bring in the fans, so he had to do it (and thus hadn't seen her go to the bathroom). She also had a locked iphone, so he couldn't use it to call for help

It's SA Police fault because they never ever helped him, so he was afraid and had to 'protect himself all by himself' and walk towards the danger despite his vulnerability

It's worker's/builders' fault because they (might have) messed up the alarm, and/or leave the ladders in his back yard

It's Roux's fault

It's Fresco's and Sam Taylors fault

It's magical gun's at Tasha's fault

The list goes on...

 

[Zinn]

It's everybody's fault, except his. As per usual.

It's Reeva's fault because she forgot to bring in the fans, so he had to do it (and thus hadn't seen her go to the bathroom). She also had a locked iphone, so he couldn't use it to call for help

It's SA Police fault because they never ever helped him, so he was afraid and had to 'protect himself all by himself' and walk towards the danger despite his vulnerability

It's worker's/builders' fault because they (might have) messed up the alarm, and/or leave the ladders in his back yard

It's Roux's fault

It's Fresco's and Sam Taylors fault

It's magical gun's at Tasha's fault

The list goes on...

"If Reeva had come out or spoken to me, I wouldn't have fired."

 

[clearskies1]

Perhaps that 66 second call was actually to prevent anyone from coming, just in case anyone else in the neighbourhood had called them, there's been no evidence to support that OP did in fact talk to anyone and if so, what was said. He could have said oops sorry, it was a b*tt call, so sorry no need here. Kinda like when Baba called and he said everything was fine.

Maybe, but there would be a record of the call, and if Reeva "went missing" it would be a red flag. Don't think OP was thinking clearly at that point. Panic mode.

MOO.

 

[Patagonia]

"City Press also reported that medication found in Pistorius' house after the murder was a herbal remedy used by men for extra energy in bed."

This reminds me - how come no sex that night?! I mean, I don't want to sound wild, but they were supposed to be in the honeymoon phase, deeply in love, hormones going crazy, and they weren't living together (so that it would be more 'normal' not to engage in such activities necessarily every night )

This may seem irrelevant, but I see it as a further (circumstantial) evidence of a quarrel between them that night. Otherwise, I don't see them just going straight to bed and baba watching *advertiser censored* and cars, while Reeva doing yoga and watching TV/Facebook entire evening. I mean, c'mon...

Oh, yeah, and her going to bed to sleep in the SAME clothes she exercised in?! With her fresh new boyfriend. No way. Any woman would tell you that.

 

[Zinn]

It's everybody's fault, except his. As per usual.

It's Reeva's fault because she forgot to bring in the fans, so he had to do it (and thus hadn't seen her go to the bathroom). She also had a locked iphone, so he couldn't use it to call for help

It's SA Police fault because they never ever helped him, so he was afraid and had to 'protect himself all by himself' and walk towards the danger despite his vulnerability

It's worker's/builders' fault because they (might have) messed up the alarm, and/or leave the ladders in his back yard

It's Roux's fault

It's Fresco's and Sam Taylors fault

It's magical gun's at Tasha's fault

The list goes on...

Oh, and the dogs. Not watchdoggy enough.

 

[Val1]

So Dr Stippe could indeed have completely ruined a plan to dispose of Reeva's body.

I'm guessing the rope and bin bag stuff was going on while Dr Stippe was there because if it wasn't then it just gets too bizarre.

This was during OP's testimony so take it for what you think it's worth:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:joM79Uc7z5cJ:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26951686%2Bpistorius+rope+body&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&gfe_rd=cr&hl=en&ct=clnk&gws_rd=cr

08:54:
Mr Roux is asking Mr Pistorius to explain the why plastic bags were at the scene. The athlete says they were used to try and stop the flow of blood. "Ms Stander [Johan Stander's daughter] asked whether I had any tape or rope so she could tie Reeva's arm." Mr Pistorius says he went to try and find some.

 

[BabaJ]

it wasn't... when Stipp arrived, she had this plastic bag stuff, tea towels from the kitchen, and a couple of bigger towels from upstairs jumbled around and over her, the rope..( all this stuff gathered by Oscar and the Standar daughter , Clarice.... )

To add to the grotesque.. Oscar was kneeling over Reeva, with his hand on her groin, and his other hand down her throat with his fingers clenched in Reevas teeth.. Stipp had to remove Oscars fingers..

...

I have read about the bags and towels - it was said that although it sounds crazy, plastic bags are even used by paramedics to stop bleeding if nothing else is readily available. However, I never heard about the rope, is there any picture or link? I do not even want to think about another possibility.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

On the gruesome head shot picture of Reeva it appeared to me that she still had on mascara. Anybody think a model fails to remove her makeup prior to going to bed for the night? I don't.

 

[clearskies1]

The other thing about OP's denigration of Dr. Stipp -- what exactly does he think Dr. Stipp could have done? The head wound was obviously fatal, anybody could see that. There was nothing anyone could do.

MOO

 

[Whiteorchids]

OP claims he was so happy to find a good Christian woman like he who is a strong Christian as well. Maybe they were just sleeping in the bed together but had not been intimate as being a good Christian means sex after marriage but then again your not suppose to lie or kill either. I think he is a hypocrite!!!

Could that be what they were arguing about she said "No" to doing the naughty? She still had her clothes on when he killed her.

 

[Patagonia]

On the gruesome head shot picture of Reeva it appeared to me that she still had on mascara. Anybody think a model fails to remove her makeup prior to going to bed for the night? I don't.

I didn't see that picture, but you are right about mascara. I never went to sleep with my make up on, ever. Not even if it was 5am and I had one too many to drink, not EVER. I can't guarantee for every woman out there, but it definitely does seem highly unlikely.

 

[Val1]

I have been very puzzled why Oscar just threw that comment about Dr Stipp into his testimony.. it came out of the blue, and seemed to have no possible rhyme or reason for it.. an unguarded moment?? a long held conviction? a figure of speech?? cranky with Dr Stipp for testifying re womanly screaming?? a slur on radiologists in general? offended because Dr Stipp was an uninvited 'guest'? an attempt to place the blame on Dr Stipp for Reevas death due to medical malpractice??

I just don't know.

Wasn't it the Stipp's that had gotten the call within an hour of Dr. Stipp getting home that morning to expect a call from OP's lawyers? Maybe they won't get a "christmas" gift after all?

 

[Trooper]

I have read about the bags and towels - it was said that although it sounds crazy, plastic bags are even used by paramedics to stop bleeding if nothing else is readily available. However, I never heard about the rope, is there any picture or link? I do not even want to think about another possibility.

according to Oscars own Pathology witness, her arm was nearly amputated by one of the shots.. .. I suppose Oscar and Clarice wanted to tie it to the body to apply pressure. .. I don't know.. . I cant imagine, really.. paramedics I know next door and I did ask, to their surprise, said unlikely, but people in shock do unlikely things..

 

[Patagonia]

OP claims he was so happy to find a good Christian woman like he who is a strong Christian as well. Maybe they were just sleeping in the bed together but had not been intimate as being a good Christian means sex after marriage but then again your not suppose to lie or kill either. I think he is a hypocrite!!!

Could that be what they were arguing about she said "No" to doing the naughty.

OP was apparently well known to sleep around like there's no tomorrow... so no celibacy there...

But it certainly seems to me that it suggests they had a fight that night... and that was the reason there was no sex..

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Has anyone yet questioned the wisdom of OP's carrying the badly wounded Reeva downstairs before she could receive any medical or paramedical attention?

I thought that a principal rule of first aid is for non-medics to only move a victim if the victim is in immediate danger from being in that particular location/position. If you don't know what you're doing, you can do a lot more damage by shifting the victim.

I have this awful image in my mind of Reeva being carried down the stairs with her arm dangling by a thread, and her head ........??

Doctors and paramedics are quite capable of going upstairs.

The only reason I can see for OP shifting Reeva is to contaminate the crime scene.

 

[shane13]

Generally discrediting him? Does not like Dr. Stipp's description of OP's hand in Reeva's mouth? Is OP going to deny the trip upstairs that Dr. Stipp saw (the pre-ID trip)?

MOO

BBM

And there's the first person who likely altered the crime scene--Oscar himself.

Then perhaps Aimee--allowed to go all over the bedroom--did they give her foot protectors?

Then Botha has testified that when he got there, some cop had allowed Carl and Oldwage all over the place, and was it 2 days ago, we learned some Cops gave or allowed Carl or Oldwage to leave the Crime Scene with the illegal ammo. Likewise what I have harped on for a year now--some Cop also gave (or allowed--really the same difference) the 5th phone again to one of Oscar's sibs or Oldwage.

The possible crime scene alterers were;
1. Oscar himself.
2. Sister and/or brother.
3. Oldwage
4. Cops who could have altered for, not against, OP


Again for a year I have decried the total lack of charges brought or even an investigation into all this leaving the crime scene with crucial evidence and also now with crime scene alteration.

All the while OP blames cops for crime scene alteration--which likely was part of the plan all along, that he and/or his people may have been involved in doing that.
The above is speculation and JMO

 

[Trooper]

Wasn't it the Stipp's that had gotten the call within an hour of Dr. Stipp getting home that morning to expect a call from OP's lawyers? Maybe they won't get a "christmas" gift after all?

no pressies at all , I bet.. Standar was on to that very efficiently, I thought.. him ringing Dr Stipp about it means that he , Standar had to be getting instructions from Oscar's lawyer, and not his daughter who isn't as far as is known Oscars lawyer..

and Standar didn't seem to mind ringing Dr Stipp at that time of the morning, either... he could have got one of the security patrol to deliver a note, or an email, or something... and its not as if the Ringing Lawyer was up with the lark either.. he didn't ring until much later in the day..