Trial - Ross Harris #3

[just the facts pls]

Thank you :blowkiss: and I agree with your post. I didn't hear him say anything to anyone about thinking he had already dropped Cooper off. He couldn't even answer LE on why? He said he left CFA and then went straight to work, which is true. He proceeds to tell LE what may have happened but he couldn't really be sure. Again, and I'm always repeating myself here :crazy: but I think he did this on purpose, and I believe he knew Cooper was in the car that whole day. Where I have trouble is when he planned this. He may have been planning this for sometime but was afraid to go through with it. Or he may have made that decision after kissing Cooper and saying he loved him in case anyone dies, then deciding to go straight to work, don't pass go, don't collect $200. I think he thought he would get away with it by claiming he forgot..

I am also having a hard time figuring out when JRH planned this. Sometimes I think it was during the Whisper message conversation he is having with the woman who was tired of being married, and sometimes I think it might have been weeks or even a month or so beforehand.

Two weeks before Cooper died, JRH stopped taking pictures of him. It was around the same time that LH took Cooper to Alabama to visit her family (correct me if I'm wrong, but that's why the forward facing seat was in her car). When she came back, the seat was not switched back to JRH's car. I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that somewhere, somehow something went wrong. Perhaps that's when JRH realized he really liked being free to do as he pleased? I don't know.

All I know is that I'm full on board with pre-med. I simply cannot get over the short drive to Chik-Fil-A and the Whisper conversation about escaping one's family happening right around the time Cooper was shut in the car for the last time. I keep going back to the fact that you cannot forget someone you are actually talking about. As Dexter Morgan pointed out earlier, the fact that Cooper's day care is right there at his job makes it all the less likely for JRH to forget his son.

 

[katydid23]

I have thought this so many times while reading posts here.

Of course the car seat was visible from the driver seat and even from the door frame. Of course it was visible when Ross reached for his briefcase in the passenger seat.

But, just because it COULD be seen, that doesn't mean Ross took notice of it or checked on whether Cooper was in it as he turned or grabbed his briefcase.

It's not just that Ross "forgot" his son was in the car - he was on autopilot, driving straight from CFA to work like he normally did; his mind "tricked" him into thinking he had already dropped Cooper off at daycare.

So, all this talk about whether the car seat was visible in his peripheral vision is irrelevant IMO - and it's really not disputed.

But he also claims that his GREATEST FEAR in life is leaving his son in a hot car. If it really was his greatest fear, wouldn't he look 2 inches to the right and check the car seat?

 

[arkansasmimi]

JMHO from reading posts/comments as the trial started until now. We are starting the LAST week of the State's case in chief. Tons of evidence photos admitted into the record/authenticated. Almost 50 witnesses testimony (if not to 50 near haven't looked at my notes on number since Friday) ..

Yet there are so many comments, and opinions that are the very same as prior to beginning of trial. Some still using that PreTrial incorrect info as their belief facts to form their opinions, and post their comments towards comments about trial testimony. Sometimes I get the feeling some are not watching any of the trial testimony. I get that, very time consuming. But when links are given to where said, still same unfactual comments vs what proven not so in witness testimony. JMHO some have guilty prior to trial and bedamned nothing is going to change their minds. Their choice and right. I agree and respect that. Just don't understand following trial if don't want to look at all the testimony on Direct and on Cross. :thinking: Isn't that the point of a trial? As a U.S. Citizen we all have the Constitutional Right as each other. Innocent until PROVEN Guilty. Hope none of us ever have to be in that position, need a Defense attorney to fight for us. LEO to get SW that are sworn to be the facts as they know them at the time of their Probable Cause Affidavit, State to present info that may or may not be factual. JMHO

Also, if going strictly by MSM reporting or some tweets (I know it very different when only have tweets, have to go with what you have) But when a trial is live streamed and the video is archived, you can go to that portion and listen for yourself. Just as an article misstated, that RH said he looked in his rear view mirror and that when he saw Cooper That is FALSE! Twice RH made comment, 1 to Det Stoddard & other Det, and 2. When he was speaking with LH in the 2nd video. BOTH times he said he turned his head to change lanes and when he did he caught a glimps from corner of his eye and thought he saw Cooper, then pulled over little bit later. NEVER did RH say rear view mirror.

Personally, I have no issues with RH being found guilty or not guilty as charged. All depends on what the State proves to the Jury, beyond a reasonable doubt. Trial still going, again this starts what the State indicated to Judge as probably their last week of calling Jurors. **and the State can and will bring back Rebuttal witnesses after the Defense presents their case. JMHO

 

[Bc007]

Another thing I come back to is this : I feel that if it was planned then it was planned as a couple. Makes no sense to me otherwise (in my opinion). LH was cleared so unless they are hoping she pulls an Andrea Sniderman, implicates herself or says something on the stand that they can use against her... I'm not thinking they plotted this together. Just me . I know we aren't allowed to discuss LH I'm just speaking generally I don't see it working without her cooperation.

 

[MsMarple]

RH doesn't say explicitly he thought he dropped Cooper off, but he definitely alludes to that, it's just very difficult to hear. Start listening around 12:00.

No - he does not "allude" to it, not starting at 12:00 or any other time during that video. Go ahead and transcribe what Ross said - please! - there was no - zero - mention of him saying he believed he had dropped Cooper off at daycare.

I stand by my original statement that Ross did not say during his discussion with Leanna that he believed he had already dropped Cooper off at daycare, You are incorrect.

 

[RANCH]

I think her husbands job has to do with her experience with juries. My father was a trial attorney and so is my brother. I worked in their firm and saw very closely what happens with juries and their decision making processes.

Being married to a trial lawyer brings one up close and personal to the way juries think and respond. I am sure she has heard her husband discuss what he did or didn't do and how it turned it because of that.

My Dad always spoke to as many of the jurors as he could after a big trial. He always wanted to know what went wrong or right with his decisions in the case. He and my brother both tried out some of their opening/closing statements on their wives and family. Like a captive audience. lol

I understand that posters relatives who are lawyers can help them in understanding how the judicial system works.

I don't think that it gives them any superiority in their posts vs other members of Websleuths.

 

[katydid23]

I understand that posters relatives who are lawyers can help them in understanding how the judicial system works.

I don't think that it gives them any superiority in their posts vs other members of Websleuths.

Of course it doesn't.

 

[RANCH]

Of course it doesn't.

Yes. And I hope that members who have relatives that can contribute to this thread do so.

JMO

 

[Hope4More]

No - he does not "allude" to it, not starting at 12:00 or any other time during that video. Go ahead and transcribe what Ross said - please! - there was no - zero - mention of him saying he believed he had dropped Cooper off at daycare.

I stand by my original statement that Ross did not say during his discussion with Leanna that he believed he had already dropped Cooper off at daycare, You are incorrect.

He ALLUDES to it. He is trying to figure out what happened and he ALLUDES to what he thinks must have happened, because of the sequence of usually dropping off Cooper before he goes to CFA, ie he must have thought he had. Alludes being the key word here.

 

[Hope4More]

But he also claims that his GREATEST FEAR in life is leaving his son in a hot car. If it really was his greatest fear, wouldn't he look 2 inches to the right and check the car seat?

Why would he check the carseat if he thought Cooper was already at daycare?

 

[minor4th]

I believe a detective (Stoddard?) testified that she asked to see Ross instead of Cooper. Twice while Ross was talking with Leanna he described how Cooper looked ("peaceful"), once at about 8:30 in the video and again at about 21:25. The second time he starts by saying he just wants Leanna to know that Cooper looked so peaceful. His mouth was closed, his eyes were closed, he did not look bad, I was dreading he was going to look terrible...

Based on those comments I'd say that Leanna went straight to Ross. Around 29:00 Leanna talks about going to the Treehouse looking for Ross - no mention of Cooper.

Interestingly, in his discussion with Leanna about what happened Ross never says anything about thinking he had dropped Cooper off at daycare. What he said was that he left CFA and headed to work and that Cooper never made a sound. To me anyway, it's more like he forgot Cooper was in the car rather than thinking he had dropped him off to daycare. The distinction is that Ross doesn't have a memory, albeit a false one, of taking Cooper to daycare. That's very different than what Dr. Diamond claims happens when a parent forgets their child. The crux of his argument is that the parent absolutely believes the child is somewhere else and continues to believe that until something causes the brain to reset - such as hearing the child's name.

Ross talks and talks about how he didn't do it on purpose but not once does he say he thought Cooper was at daycare. I find that concerning.

[video=youtube;lwbQuyHUx-A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwbQuyHUx-A[/video]

At the scene Ross did say to Piper "I swore I took him to day care. I thought I did."

 

[MsMarple]

He ALLUDES to it. He is trying to figure out what happened and he ALLUDES to what he thinks must have happened, because of the sequence of usually dropping off Cooper before he goes to CFA, ie he must have thought he had. Alludes being the key word here.

Does he say "Oh, I must have thought that I already dropped Cooper off at daycare?" No - he does not say that. Ross trying to figure out what happened is not equivalent to saying he believed he had already dropped Cooper off at daycare, no matter how many times you say it is. Transcribe it for us please so that we can understand where you believe Ross alludes to believing he had dropped Cooper off at daycare. Then we can discuss it.

 

[Cherry]

i need the state to clarify if Harris was on scene as a dispatcher the day the police K9 suffered heat exhaustion and died. Was harris on scene that day?

 

[minor4th]

I thought it was but was unsure at time.

Just want to point out that those are dates taken straight from Ludwig arguing the Motion to Quash. NOT my compiling of information. Factual information from the Hearing.

Notice if you watched that portion of Hearing, the State does not dispute, State contends that the Motion is not ripe, that shouldn't be heard until sentencing after a verdict .

Very interesting too is the next section last for that day 9/14/15 was the legal stuff over Charges 6,7,&8.

Sept 15, 2015 next day was when Stoddard was back on the stand.

I wanted your take on Stoddard's testimony at that hearing and compared to his testimony at this trial and the video we've seen so far from the police station.

I'm unclear when in that sequence Stoddard supposedly told Ross (off camera) that he would be charged with child cruelty and felony murder, and Ross allegedly responded "There was no malicious intent." I can't work out when that possibly could have been.

 

[MsMarple]

At the scene Ross did say to Piper "I swore I took him to day care. I thought I did."

But Ross doesn't say that to Leanna in the video. That is my point.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Originally Posted by minor4th View Post
I have thought this so many times while reading posts here.

Of course the car seat was visible from the driver seat and even from the door frame. Of course it was visible when Ross reached for his briefcase in the passenger seat.

But, just because it COULD be seen, that doesn't mean Ross took notice of it or checked on whether Cooper was in it as he turned or grabbed his briefcase.

It's not just that Ross "forgot" his son was in the car - he was on autopilot, driving straight from CFA to work like he normally did; his mind "tricked" him into thinking he had already dropped Cooper off at daycare.

So, all this talk about whether the car seat was visible in his peripheral vision is irrelevant IMO - and it's really not disputed.

But he also claims that his GREATEST FEAR in life is leaving his son in a hot car. If it really was his greatest fear, wouldn't he look 2 inches to the right and check the car seat?

RBBM and color changed in OP comment by me.

Just because the top of the car seat was visible does not mean that Cooper was visible from those angles. As proven by the CSI Shumpert photos at the Achers Mills parking lot/crime scene. RH told Stoddard June 18,2014 on the first video when he was read his Miranda, the car seat stayed in the car all the time (didn't put in or take it out daily, no need to)
Still trying to catch up and had to reboot, WS kept freezing up. So forgive me if I have missed, RBBM, where does the 2 inches to the right come from? Testimony has been that from the top of RH seat (not the headrest) to the TOP of car seat was 3 inches. From CSI Shumpers photos, at the crime scene, bending down taking photos inside the car, you can not see into the car seat. Cooper head would be down from the top. (from testimony CSI Grimstead measurements/AR) CSI Grimstead photos from sitting inside car, Only able to be seen if RH turned his head around as he did to look out towards rear seat door window or rear of car. Not just out of the corner of his eye looking to see traffic out the passenger window or reach down to get his briefcase/bag. (VIDEO from executing the SW 6/18/14 shows view at one point Grimstead sitting in the drivers seat. Can see the rearview mirror in the
Grimstead testimony JUSTIN ROSS HARRIS TRIAL | DAY 4 - PART 4 LadyJustice2188



JUSTIN ROSS HARRIS TRIAL | DAY 4 - PART 5 LadyJustice2188
At the Crime Scene Shed 6/18/14 CSI Grimstead. Sitting in Drivers seat and his view . I also zoomed in same photo but more of the view from Rear View mirror



zoom

again view, from the rear looking towards the front- rear view mirror at front.

 

[katydid23]

Why would he check the carseat if he thought Cooper was already at daycare?

Because his 'greatest fear' was that he'd leave his child in a hot car to die. He said he had seen a news report on a father who did that and became an advocate, and asked everyone to just make sure and take that second look. And he even mentioned watching the hot car/dog video. So apparently, it was quite a fear of his. AND it was his wife's biggest fear too.


So why didn't he look 2 inches to the right? It is hard to believe he never did so in that 33 seconds, while he had to reach over the right passenger seat to get his satchel anyway.

I never heard him say that he had any memories of taking Cooper to daycare.

 

[minor4th]

RBBM. Stoddard FIRST made the testimony of RH saying the Malicious Intent at the Probable Cause Hearing/Bond Hearing on 7/2/14.In the video we saw on Friday 10/21/16, Stoddard and the other Det informed RH that were charging him with Cruelty to Child (or however that charge is listed). NOTHING about Murder in the 1st video of RH alone. NO mention in the 2nd video with LH and RH was Felony Murder charge stated either. As matter of fact (AND YES "FACT") from that video, Stoddard tells LH that RH can call her later on and let her know what the formal charges are and bail info if there is bail. Stoddard informs them that possible other charges could be added. So at the closing of the LH/RH video only charges told about were the Cruelty charge.

So did Stoddard just flat out lie in his earlier testimony about this conversation that took place before recording started?

There's no way it could have happened the way he described at the Sept 2015 hearing (haven't gone back to listen to the 7/14 hearing yet.

 

[Bc007]

After buckling Cooper in his car seat, has it been confirmed how long Ross sat in the car (if at all) potentially messaging before pulling out of the parking lot?

 

[just the facts pls]

I have one more post to make for the evening, then it's off to bed so I can get up in the morning for trial. katydid23, I hope you had a great birthday!

It does not sit well with me that people are quick to separate sexual perversion and murder when they are intrinsically linked. There is a reason why perverts do not have a good reputation. Time and time again we see cases of missing kids and murdered teenagers where men who do not respect the boundary between childhood and adulthood murder their victims.

The defense has characterized JRH as a run of the mill man with high sex drive who "struggles" with his sexual desire. I find this richly hypocritical considering how they've treated the young women who were subpoena to testify for the state. The problem is, JRH isn't just struggling with added sex drive. His taste is very clear and specific - there's an abundance of evidence to suggest he prefers teenagers, including underage girls as young as 15. He chooses to use apps like kik and skout which are popular with teenagers. He goes out of his way to meet teens, and has even lied to increase his odds for sexual favors. None of this implies a lack of intelligence or lack of sexual experience on JRH's part. What it does speak to is his gross entitlement and lack of respect for laws and boundaries.

It is also telling that nobody really knew JRH, and it is not unusual for criminals with sexual deviancy (green river killer being a more extreme example). Not his friends, not Cooper's teachers, not his co-workers, and possibly even his own wife had no idea who he really was. I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would ever assume that they can know JRH is or what he is capable of based off the perception he does not look the part of a murderer. People were going around saying he was stupid then SURPRISE police interrogation videos show JRH is actually a degree holder who is intelligent, articulate, and capable of making carefully worded and persuasive statements to LE. Now there's an attempt to portray JRH as a sexually inexperienced forty-year-old virgin type despite all evidence that JRH repeatedly and successfully struck up sexually explicit contact both underage and barely legal teenagers.

I'm just not sure why anyone would be so quick to defend him knowing that they would not allow him around their own nieces, daughters, or sisters (if they would... heavens help their female family members). Again, I'm not pointing out anyone specifically (although, my mind is going in the direction of Vinnie Politan), this is just my thoughts and observation. JRH is at best a toxic pervert who uses teenagers for sex and is a compulsive liar with no conscience and a habit of risk taking behavior (his words not mine). At worst, he is a murderer of the most terrible kind, leaving his kid in the car to die the most horrifying death imaginable. Either way, it is impossible for me to muster any sympathy and I am at a loss when anyone else does. I can only assume that he's gotten good at pulling the wool over people's eyes and will continue to do so for as long he lives.