Trial - Ross Harris #5

[Hope4More]

If there's not an agreement among Websleuths members about the safety of the carseat, it makes me feel that the jury may not unanimously agree that it was unsafe. JMO

Honestly, I'd be flabbergasted if this jury gives a flying fig about RH's alleged violation of a manufacturer's car seat specifications. Even LE, for all their intense focus on the carseat and strange stories about strap settings early on, have never suggested RH was a negligent or a bad father because of the size of Cooper's carseat.

The only possible relevance the car seat has to this trial IMO is whether or not RH would necessarily have seen Cooper in it, even if he had "forgotten " him minutes before.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
We can only go by what has been entered into evidence. And those figures so far are 14inchs from rump to crown and the car seat being 19 1/4 inches. That is where I get my 5 1/4 inch from evidence & testimony presented by States witness

JMHO just one more inaccuracy of evidence in this case and a point being brought out by the Def. JMHO the State should have had all these things locked down prior to first day of trial. It creates reasonable doubt in itself of a thorough investigation.

No, the jurors can only go by what is evidence. We can look at the measurements in the report, the seat specs from the manufacturer, and the photo of Cooper darn near maxing out the seat in a photo that shows him a few months younger. Then we can use our common sense and determine that he was *far* too big for the infant seat he was in. We can objectively look at that information and at least be willing to admit that RH and LH neglected to provide a safe car seat for Cooper. I think refusing to acknowledge even the most basic and obvious facts of this case is bizarre. Just because the report had a typo doesn't mean we have to disregard what we see. We aren't the jury so we are free to do that. Luckily I think the jurors will be able to see from the evidence that he didn't fit the seat, although even a proper seat wouldn't reduce his guilt in any way so it's probably not worth arguing about.

Agree we can look at the measurements. But the measurements do not add up to get to the height of 33 inches in the Autopsy Report. There is a discrepancy that someone is going to have to address. It has been brought into the record by the Defense with Witness former ME Dr. Frist, he signed off on the report. After Lumkin read from the report, and Dr Frist affirmed ea, on ReDirect Evans, went up and asked something about the numbers and a typo. When he stepped down, Lumkin kept him under subpoena. He will be back for the Defense or on standby.

On the photo of Cooper in the car seat we have no idea when that photo was taken. His teachers said that he had recently had a growing spurt in his legs. I have worked with the numbers and in blue is what my thoughts are on the measurements. But right now, as is it shows one more thing that is messed up with States presented evidence that should have already been addressed prior to being in front of the jury. JMHO

this is what report says total 33 http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf
crown to rump 14
rump to heel 17.5
that is 31.5 <<< 1.5 inches too short for total of 33

crown to shoulder 8
shoulder to heel 23.5
that is 31.5 <<<1.5 inches too short for total of 33

crown to shoulder 8 <<<
shoulder to rump 11 <<< that right there is 19 inches
rump to heel 17.5
that is 36.5 <<< 3.5 inches too long for total of 33


MY thoughts
crown to shoulder: 4.5>>>
shoulder to rump: 11>>> this would make crown to rump 16.5 (butt to top of head)
rump to heel: 17.5
that is 33 inches

crown to rump 16.5
rump to heel: 17.5
tthat is 33 inches

car seat measurements from Grimstead seat
(rump) to top of car seat 19.25
-
my measurement of crown to rump 16.5
difference of 2.75 inches from crown of Cooper head to top of car seat.
***still not "over" the top of car seat as Stoddard testified. BUT closer to top than AR, and under the top of car seat. Still visable depending how the head was positioned & how far around you turned. JMHO

 

[katydid23]

How would the fact that RH was having a mental heath crisis impact this trial? I don't think the State used that in their case in chief. Will the defense use it somehow?

I am not sure that the DT will want to go there. They want this to be a straight up example of Dr Diamonds FBS theory.

The State couldn't go there because as far as we know, he has never been diagnosed with anything besides depression, I believe. But I think that he was showing signs of manic or obsessive behavior, jmo.

 

[Hope4More]

He was replying to a question, about NOW how does he think it would be....so unfair to say he is not waiting for the defense.

My reading comprehension must be flickering as of late. I surely didn't see a "now" in that or other of his posts. Will adjust my bifocals and try again.

Though Tex and I are plenty accustomed to wrangling one another on every last bit of a something, I'd hate to have read whatever opinion of his I don't agree with wrong.

PS..I'm pretty confident Tex is plenty comfortable giving me a what fer himself if he feels the need.

 

[katydid23]

That's in in Cheaters Handbook as well...
If the wife is so horrible why dont you leave. "Don't want to leave my kid." Deal with Child Support or what-have-you. It's usually understood, that it doesn't mean, I can only leave the old ball & chain, If I kill my kid first.

Right. But does that mean he didn't mean it? Just because a lot of cheaters say that and SOME are lying, it does not mean that many aren't telling the truth.

And to me, there is a difference between a cheater who has a girlfriend on the side, or sexts his ex, or a coworker, now and then------and someone who sexts with 35 randoms a day, hooks up with strangers on the side of the road, and visits prostitutes, all in the same week. Ross had mental health issues, in my opinion. He was not just a run of the mill, average cheater.

Some extreme type of sociopaths do take it to the extreme---and decide that they can only escape their unhappy marriage if they 'accidentally on purpose' kill their kid. It happens quite a bit.

 

[RANCH]

I am not sure that the DT will want to go there. They want this to be a straight up example of Dr Diamonds FBS theory.

The State couldn't go there because as far as we know, he has never been diagnosed with anything besides depression, I believe. But I think that he was showing signs of manic or obsessive behavior, jmo.

So you feel that its possible that RH suffers from mental heath issues but the State couldn't go there because he wasn't diagnosed. If the State thought that diagnoses was true and would help their case why didn't they have experts testify to that?

 

[katydid23]

My reading comprehension must be flickering as of late. I surely didn't see a "now" in that or other of his posts. Will adjust my bifocals and try again.

Though Tex and I are plenty accustomed to wrangling one another on every last bit of a something, I'd hate to have read whatever opinion of his I don't agree with wrong.

Let me try and explain what I meant by the 'now.' If I remember correctly, you asked what the State had proven, beyond a doubt, NOW, so far,....


I replied with a list---Tex commented and then was asked what he thought the charges would be from that list...right?

So in fact, he was talking about what was known NOW, as in so far....no need to adjust the bifocals...:wink:

 

[Hope4More]

Let me try and explain what I meant by the 'now.' If I remember correctly, you asked what the State had proven, beyond a doubt, NOW, so far,....


I replied with a list---Tex commented and then was asked what he thought the charges would be from that list...right?

So in fact, he was talking about what was known NOW, as in so far....no need to adjust the bifocals...:wink:

Eh? What's that? You were saying?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Is Ross a creep ? yes
But
I need to ask this . If all circumstances were the same but Ross was texting for side work staying up till 3 planning his side work and up at 5 leaving him exhausted and did the same thing after breakfast leaving Cooper to die while wheeling and dealing. Is he guilty of a lesser charge because we approve of those activities but not sexting ?
I myself wonder honestly if those prejudices are in play here. Our disdain for Ross over shadows our ability to objectively look at his case.
For me they were in play.

JMHO as a sleuther, I would like to know what time he left work on the days prior that he has taken Cooper to daycare that we saw video time stamps from LAA

What was the other information on the computers in evening/late nights. Was RH also doing work (either HD or side business work) in addition to the texting/sexting/emails? Same with work.

What was the days prior like as in his online activities at work vs the day he left Cooper in the car. ^^^ same as above
what was the other information on the computers in evening/late nights.

Would show a pattern. JMHO

 

[katydid23]

So you feel that its possible that RH suffers from mental heath issues but the State couldn't go there because he wasn't diagnosed. If the State thought that diagnoses was true and would help their case why didn't they have experts testify to that?

I am just speculating. I think he has mental health issues because of his manic behavior and sexual acting out in extreme fashion. He told LE he had 'depression.' Depression quite often accompanies other issues as well.

I am not sure the State would want to go there. Maybe the defense would use that diagnosis as an explanation and way out of the charges?

Are you thinking that HE HAS NO MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES?

 

[RANCH]

Honestly, I'd be flabbergasted if this jury gives a flying fig about RH's alleged violation of a manufacturer's car seat specifications. Even LE, for all their intense focus on the carseat and strange stories about strap settings early on, have never suggested RH was a negligent or a bad father because of the size of Cooper's carseat.

The only possible relevance the car seat has to this trial IMO is whether or not RH would necessarily have seen Cooper in it, even if he had "forgotten " him minutes before.

If this case was about how Cooper died in an auto accident because his parents used the wrong carseat then the discussion about it's specs would make more sense to me. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I thought I read somewhere that his brother the PO had arrived and got the family all in hand, and a lawyer to ensure any further conversation went through him (the lawyer). At he time I read it I just thought that would be normal that his brother would do that.

His brother is in a pretty difficult situation. Apparently he is a very high ranking LE officer. It would be very tough on him and his career if he was seen in court supporting his brother every day, as those women and minors were testifying. jmo

 

[katydid23]

Men have lied to get sex since the dawn of time. RH grumbled about money and time to himself? How unusual and sinister! Not.

But when someone is grumbling about needing an escape, and 2 minutes later, they conveniently 'forget' to drop off their little joker, that grumbling does look a little more sinister. JMO

 

[Hope4More]

I am not sure that the DT will want to go there. They want this to be a straight up example of Dr Diamonds FBS theory.

The State couldn't go there because as far as we know, he has never been diagnosed with anything besides depression, I believe. But I think that he was showing signs of manic or obsessive behavior, jmo.

I agree that the DT likely won't want to go there, because whatever was going on with RH, the manifestation of it probably makes him more unsympathetic as a defendant. I imagine the DT thinks it would alienate the jury to bring up psych stuff short of lab results indicating a condition that makes him less culpable.

 

[RANCH]

I am just speculating. I think he has mental health issues because of his manic behavior and sexual acting out in extreme fashion. He told LE he had 'depression.' Depression quite often accompanies other issues as well.

I am not sure the State would want to go there. Maybe the defense would use that diagnosis as an explanation and way out of the charges?

Are you thinking that HE HAS NO MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES?

I have no idea if he does or doesn't have a mental health issue. Personally I don't think that mental heath issues are a legal defense but I'm not a lawyer. I think you have to prove insanity which is very hard.

Couldn't the State use a mental heath issue to explain the abhorrent behavior by RH to sway the possible juror who may feel that there's no way a father would purposely kill his innocent child this way?

 

[katydid23]

Did he take her out to dinner a lot? How about movies? What kind of "relationship" was this? A virtual one?

I think she was a 'symbol' of what could be waiting for him, if he was free and single. She was young, hot and beautiful. And very sexy. He saw himself as trapped in an unhappy, sex starved marriage---and this gorgeous, passionate young red head was expressing her love for him, and it may have inspired him to do the deed.

 

[katydid23]

I have no idea if he does or doesn't have a mental health issue. Personally I don't think that mental heath issues are a legal defense but I'm not a lawyer. I think you have to prove insanity which is very hard.

Couldn't the State use a mental heath issue to explain the abhorrent behavior by RH to sway the possible juror who may feel that there's no way a father would purposely kill his innocent child this way?

Not if there is no evidence of a formal diagnosis. But I think they telegraphed the possibility by putting all of those women on the stand. jmo

 

[Hope4More]

But when someone is grumbling about needing an escape, and 2 minutes later, they conveniently 'forget' to drop off their little joker, that grumbling does look a little more sinister. JMO

Who knows whether or not RH's "little joker" was even an expression of hostility? RH didn't seem to have a problem with using foul language. I can think of many other words he could have used that would have made hostile feelings clear without the slightest bit of ambiguity.

 

[RANCH]

I think she was a 'symbol' of what could be waiting for him, if he was free and single. She was young, hot and beautiful. And very sexy. He saw himself as trapped in an unhappy, sex starved marriage---and this gorgeous, passionate young red head was expressing her love for him, and it may have inspired him to do the deed.

I have no idea what you mean with this post. I'm being honest. A symbol? What does that mean? We were discussing relationships.

 

[katydid23]

Is Ross a creep ? yes

But

I need to ask this . If all circumstances were the same but Ross was texting for side work staying up till 3 planning his side work and up at 5 leaving him exhausted and did the same thing after breakfast leaving Cooper to die while wheeling and dealing. Is he guilty of a lesser charge because we approve of those activities but not sexting ?

I myself wonder honestly if those prejudices are in play here. Our disdain for Ross over shadows our ability to objectively look at his case.

For me they were in play.

I would feel differently for two reasons.

1---if his late night texting was all about getting an extra job ,and not him leading a double messy life, then here would be no way to use the texting as a possible motive for him to want to get rid of his son.

2. If his late nights were due to a more 'noble' or necessary cause, then it would be something he did to help his family. I would see him as a good father, provider and protector. But if his fatigue was because he chose to give in to selfish, sexual urges, and he did so at the expense of his child, then he gets no benefit of the doubt from me.