Trial - Ross Harris #5

[Hope4More]

Hear, hear, and only to add that conversely, Ross Harris's alleged crimes do not absolve LE from the responsibility of honoring their oaths to protect the rights of the accused.
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And jumping off your post, what I find truly ironic is that those who believe LE is on trial don't seem to understand that STODDARD, the lead investigator, is the person who has virtually single handedly been responsible for LE witnesses being demolished on the stand and having their own credibility undermined and ethics challenged. He's thrown his own team under the bus.

We actually DO UNDERSTAND, that being said you have mentioned the shortcomings of LE in EVERY single post. We get it.
Again, not a lawyer but do believe the judicial system is set up to take care of these issues one way or another. JMO

No, actually, most of my posts have nothing to do with LE. Perhaps you're just interpreting them that way?

And, no, it seems you've missed my point entirely. I usually resist trotting out the trite and usually defensive "I am a supporter of LE " line, because I feel no need to apologize for asking that LE be held accountable, and I feel no need to try to appease folks who don't share that sentiment.

In this case I'll make an exception to make my point crystal clear. I have friends who are cops, and who police in a city considered one of the top 10 most dangerous cities in the US of A.

I know from having cops as friends that cops are the first to feel critical of and contempt for bad cops, dirty cops, unethical cops. Those cops put good cops in danger in a hundred different ways, which can and does endanger civilians as well.

Those good cops, including my friends, are no more "anti-LE" than I am. Enough.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Not really. When a kid dies in a parent's care while in a hot car, that in and of itself creates probable cause to search the records of the parent caring for the child. IMO. You don't need more I think to show that there is adequate reason to see what was happening that led to the child's death and to suspect that a crime- whether negligence or more- was involved.

gitna1, you have been my hero for a number of years and even more so now!!!

 

[arkansasmimi]

I actually haven't watched much at all. I've been tracking via tweets and the news. I assume if there was solid evidence that members of LE quickly got together around a table on the day Cooper died and said, we need to frame this SOB, let's fabricate evidence real quick so we can get search warrants." That would be explosive news.

Actually some of the reports took a year to get worded right. They tweeked the SW little at a time. Impeached testimony. Per testimony There was an informal meeting that "more than 3" were in attendance but "no one remembers or recalls" who was there no do reports indicate. This is definitely one that I am thankful to have live stream. One MSM article said wasn't sure the judge denied the mistrial request yet she did. So if one were to just read that, they would possibly think she was going to think about it and get back with. JMHO

 

[Beccalynne]

Few cases make it to SCOTUS so lawyers rely on what their district court will rule. Ga falls under the 11th district. It's not the easiest court to win an appeal in, particularly in a criminal case. I think they overturn aprox 10% of cases that make it to them. And very few cases it make to them. I was commenting on the chances of the appeals of this case overturning the verdict.

The appeals would go to the GA Court of Appeals, not the 11th Circuit.

 

[Hope4More]

Let me clarify, and I thought that I said this above. My current concerns have nothing to do with whether the SWs are valid (as I tend to agree with your synopsis), and I am not suggesting (at this time) that the evidence collected should be thrown out. In fact, I think that it would be a travesty to have that evidence thrown out because of a legal misstep. Truly. To be perfectly blunt, I am not informed enough at the moment to know whether or not the misstatements on the SWs are material. From what I have seen, they are not.

My concern with respect to giving Ross a fair trial is that the judge's decision is potentially suppressing exculpatory evidence. I believe that the SWs do show a pattern of confirmation bias (or at the very least what could be construed as confirmation bias), and the jurors should be able to use that in their decision. I think that Ross is owed that. If I were a juror, it would not affect my decision, but I can see how it may affect other jurors. It is really bothering me, and it's not because I like Ross. I believe that every defendant should be judged by the evidence, and LE's sloppy work is part of that.



This makes sense, and I can understand this rationale. Thank you.

It's not clear to me that those misstatements are not currently affecting Ross. While I may not personally subscribe to this theory, I can see how a legitimate case could be made that the information contained in those SWs helps cast reasonable doubt. Something feels so wrong about hiding this information from the jurors.



BBM

I think that it speaks to the investigation itself. I believe that the jury should be able to decide if or how it matters.

We may never know if and to what extent those "mistakes" on multiple SW's over a period of months may affect this jury's verdicts.

The search warrants were made public. A LE spokesperson told the media on the 19th that the evidence LE was uncovering was "unconscionable." Some of the "mistakes " on SWs were repeated as fact during RH's probable cause hearing.

That public opinion was inflamed based in large part on those "mistakes" is incontrovertible. The jury pool in Cobb County was so deeply tainted it was impossible for RH to receive a fair trial there.

IIRC, at least 3/4 of the jurors voir dired, round 2, had read or seen news coverage of the trial. What do you suppose they had been exposed to as "fact"? Is it really possible to be confident no one on that jury has been so influenced by what they thought they knew that they will be unreceptive to having the DT impeach LE testimony, just for instance?

I have faith in the jury system, but I don't believe jurors aren't magically cleansed of months and months of highly emotional, very inaccurate media coverage just because they were selected for trial.

 

[kjpaw]

Correct, but after that, if accepted, it goes to the 11th district. Lawyers depend on district rulings bc 99% of those that make it past state supreme courts end at district courts.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just a quick question. I see people saying Ross was exhausted that day...I realize he should've been based on lack of sleep from texting habits...but what evidence of there is that? All I recall is his friends, iirc, said he seemed totally normal. He made plans to go to a movie after work which doesn't seem like something an exhausted person would do. Just curious where that's coming from...what info exists that he was exhausted outside of "well he should have been?" Also, I've seen references that he was depressed recently. I'm also curious where that info comes from. Following this case as closely as possible but I know I miss things so TIA for the info.

he should be tired huh. On the text/chats/internet evidence has been presented iirc somewhere between midnight and 3 something he was sending messages/emails. Cooper woke up at 5:30. few more texts and was I guess awake when LH left because he knew the time. Texts prior to getting to CF. Maybe he took a nap evening before or just doesn't require much sleep. Not sure. I also wonder if he was also working on other projects (side company or maybe some work project and phone dings checks goes back to whatever doing) I say this because there are lulls in times of these activities that are pulled out. I haven't gotten all the times in minute by minute order yet. I bet they have one for Closing.

Coworker Brandon Miller testified that possible RH was stressed about work on Cross. Said that he overheard in the lunch room that RH was behind on a task.
RH told in the 1st video interview, that he had a daily 10:30 meeting.

 

[Beccalynne]

Correct, but after that, if accepted, it goes to the 11th district. Lawyers depend on district rulings bc 99% of those that make it past state supreme courts end at district courts.

They are 2 separate things. The 11th circuit handles the appeals from the federal courts.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I happen to agree with your take. It's one thing to have selective memory ( forgetting what's on a shopping list or put coffee on roof then drive off) THIS was HIS BABY/CHILD NOT, NOT some sort of to do LIST item!! .. Quite another to repel that memory when getting so many reminders throughout the day. Leanne texted him shortly after he got to work..asking about getting to work..Any responsible parent would have said yes..becausse he would have then recalled his actual transporting Cooper to Daycare..BUT instead he defaulted to his Sexting!!

Just as aside..Why is it at all acceptable for any employee to spend most their working hours online/texting/sexting ( no matter what the topic is)??? While I never complained..once computers became part of the tools available for workers in my workplace...AS an old schooled Nurse..I found far too many glued to computer screens ..and NOT doing their jobs!! I never complained..But sure saw how distracted employee's get and default to their own interests AWAY from their duties!! Short of a Code Blue or Pink..They would spend many hours online and reading over their shoulders occasionally IT SURE had NOTHING to do with their JOB!! Drove me crazy.

Most workplaces have records of login info and what each login searches/topics/time spent. But the bottomline it frustrated me because I felt pressure to pick up the slack to cover them!! I too wasn't one to sit around and gossip either..so always kept busy..either with patients or doing restocking supplies or cleaning up areas. Being busy in my book at work..SHOULD always be doing work business related..NOT sitting on some computer..unless it is on one's break time!! Always been a thorn in my side issue!! ( I never reported them..as I'm no SD) !!!

ETA~~ I worked in ER/Trauma Unit~~

Coworker Brandon Miller testimony made it sound like "everybody does it". He testified they have various monitors on their desks. Some have videos playing, googling stuff on line all kinds of things. I don't get it either but also Alex and Winston both testified that the Treehouse is more laid back than the building they work at. RH said he was salary no exact time in or out. Curious what normal time was his clock out? Especially the day prior. Have we heard that (just thought about that)

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
I actually haven't watched much at all. I've been tracking via tweets and the news. I assume if there was solid evidence that members of LE quickly got together around a table on the day Cooper died and said, we need to frame this SOB, let's fabricate evidence real quick so we can get search warrants." That would be explosive news.

And if you only read some comments here - you would assume that is exactly what happened! What would happen if SW were disregarded if there were even the slightest mistake (head leaned inside car or head outside of car?)

At some point we either trust LE to make reasonable judgements or we consider everything they say and do to be suspect. Sadly, I see that attitude more and more in our country. If a 22 month old has baked to death in a car and LE with years of experience believe something is wrong - should they not have some leeway to investigate?

RBBM, :thinking: what about "he's in there" or "he bent his head" and is standing by his testimony? (Stoddard) Even after the State's video enhancement witness testified under cross that RH head never went below the roof of the car...

JMHO and sadly its because of LEO that do stuff like has been shown to have happened is what makes all the ones following the law be included in group of bad apples. Leeway to investigate? I believe they do. Does not make them above the law. Laws are there for everyone. To protect the LEO and the public. jmho

 

[DeDee]

Did the State have so much evidence that they omitted Cooper's little Cars backpack that was left at home? I always thought it was Cooper's every day backpack.
Why didn't the State bring up the matter of Cooper's Cars backpack hanging on the peg inside of the Harris' home? That is one of the strongest premed clues that there is. At least the photo image of Coop's Cars backpack will go to the jury as State's evidence marked # 150.



SS Source:
CourtChatter
Ross Harris Trial Day 3 Part 2 (CSI Shumpert) 10/05/16
[video=youtube;aLCjTNvC_J0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLCjTNvC_J0[/video]

 

[arkansasmimi]

So...Poor Ross was afflicted with his Sexual addiction and sexting obsessions and maybe his wifey wasn't quite so sexual as much as he wanted..So he develops a 2nd life style...OF course he may be depressed for just that alone..but also not getting a job or job promotion that would increase his pay..may too load onto that as well.. So he loses sleep because of his obsessiveness... WHY didn't defense seek "Psychological Testing"?? Nope..because he was an "Obsessive Compulsive" functional male..quite able to know RIGHT from WRONG so it wouldn't have helped him!

How about an alcoholic who due to his addiction, cannot abide by the mores of society ..and puts his child at risk...Do DUI's resulting in death get a break?? :Just an accident excuse...sounds more like defenders of Ross want to claim the "Twinkie" excuse..or how about the "Affluenza" excuse after killing multiple people driving under the influence. Justice sometimes boggles my mind :scared:

Attorney Phil Holloway stated that actually they get one, less than a mandatory life sentence. Just repeating what I heard him say, haven't looked up the Statute sentencing on that. JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

I would hope jurors who couldn't accept any parent accidentally leaving a child in a car told the truth in voir dire, and that they were promptly dismissed.

Makes me curious about the ones that heard about the case prior but could put those aside and pay attention to the testimony and evidence. Wasn't there a couple? Been a while since read about them. Have to review on that. JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

Thank you for excellent post, and I 100% agree with you!

Cooper Harris is the victim here not RH and I think sometimes that get muddled in all of the other stuff!

Correct Cooper is the Victim and Justin Ross Harris is on trial. That's what the trial is about and the threads "Trial - Ross Harris #5"

 

[arkansasmimi]

If a child dies in a hot car, that's enough probable cause for the records of the people responsible for the care of the child to be scoured, regardless if what the suspect does or says or how they react, etc. IMO. It's a dead child. Everything related to what was going on, what the context was, whether there were distractions, if there was malice or recklessness, all of it, should be open to a search warrant just based on the mere fact that a child baked to death in a hot car. I think the judge in this case indicated as much.

Agree. And I also believe that the information to get SW should be factual. If not, why does the Magistrate ask this and the Affiant have to swear under oath that is does verily believe and has probable cause to believe from facts within his knowledge as set out herein? https://www.gabar.org/forthepublic/forteachersstudents/lre/teacherresources/upload/ch16.pdf

 

[arkansasmimi]

I can only HOPE that the Jury uses common sense...But will see..I do fear this faux excuses somehow has taken hold within a certain un-evolved sector of society. I cannot believe that at my age I would consider myself some sort of weirdo by those who swallow such OLD thinking!!

Let's Hope aberrant types can't ever use OLD thinking in order to excuse obvious negligence and total abandonment of responsibilities!! Especially when such behaviour and attitude causes such an excruciating death of a total innocent! There's a reason that laws have progressed to enhance charges when children get harmed or killed by negligence!!

Respectfully bbm. There are laws in this nation and no one should be above the law. Interesting bit of news I caught a glimpse of tonight about the FBI deciding to reopen an investigation. JMHO

 

[katydid23]

Agree. And I also believe that the information to get SW should be factual. If not, why does the Magistrate ask this and the Affiant have to swear under oath that is does verily believe and has probable cause to believe from facts within his knowledge as set out herein? https://www.gabar.org/forthepublic/forteachersstudents/lre/teacherresources/upload/ch16.pdf
View attachment 103784

Do you think they were lying when they said they thought he was making a 6 minute call when the police arrived? Was that a purposeful deceitful action by LE? Did they purposely lie when they when they claimed Ross searched child free?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
Yes. I indeed used the term conspiracy. There is no evidence of some wild conspiracy. Your post, however, indicated that there was in fact such evidence. But so far I haven't seen that

No disrespect, but you should probably take the weekend and watch the trial on YouTube.

Agree. On YouTube, CourtChatter, Fox5, LadyJustice1288 have it all archived. or can just search Ross Harris Trial, to find each of those links.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by Jewels53 View Post
Thank you for excellent post, and I 100% agree with you!

Cooper Harris is the victim here not RH and I think sometimes that get muddled in all of the other stuff!

Might I add, RH is the one responsible for Cooper's death not Detective Stoddard and Law Enforcement!

Justin Ross Harris is on Trial. Detective Stoddard was assigned the Lead Detective 6/18/14 and continues to be, per testimony from 2nd in command Det Sean Murphy today. JMHO the only muddled up done started on 6/18/14. Per sworn oath during trial and hearing in this case, as to the accuracy of information. JMHO form watching these.

 

[arkansasmimi]

No - I never said that. I said, if a child is dead and adults apparently responsible set off suspicions - what is the point if they are then held to a standard that every jot and tittle of every SW must be perfect. If not, we not only throw out the evidence but impugn the character of the L.E. officers by implying they intentionally lied?

:waitasec: am I remembering correctly that you have an attorney in the family? Sorry if I am misremembering.
Snip from GA State Bar:
The method for obtaining a search warrant is very similar to that for obtaining an arrest warrant. To issue a search warrant, the judge must be given facts under oath. These facts must show probable cause to believe that certain illegal items will be found in the place to be searched. The items and the place that is to be searched
must be specifically described. An affidavit for a search warrant is shown in figure 16-4. Figure 16-5 shows a search warrant. https://www.gabar.org/forthepublic/forteachersstudents/lre/teacherresources/upload/ch16.pdf