trial thread: 3/30/2012

[flipflop]

115 pictures of crime scene, house across from lane way and surroundings. HTH IMO the lane way looks like two tire trails with areas flat and solid enough to turn around in many areas along that path. Of course you would have to go off the trail somewhat to turn around but it looks safe enough to do so. And on April 8th, 2009 there was snow on the ground and no weeds, which would make the ground conditions easier to judge and whether it was feasible to turn around safely. MOO

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/30/19573121.html

There are some spring time pics in the link above from the area.

 

[Confusedashell]

Does anyone know if they are in court tomorrow due to good friday??

 

[flipflop]

Those shots of the laneway, including the clip here: http://www.globalnews.ca/cop+discove...450/story.html were taken by reporters from a distance with long lenses and have a foreshortened perspective. It's not necessarily what one would see from the car driving in there. I still feel Rafferty knew exactly where he was going, not just randomly heading up a blind trail he didn't know.

Your link will not work for me... this lot is very secluded, finding it is tricky. The average person driving by would miss it as that side of the road is a large forest area with a narrow laneway in the middle. Driving on this stretch of road your eyes go towards the house across the road, most of this road is just boring looking farm fields. Perhaps MR and TLM visited this area previous to April 8th. JMO

 

[Confusedashell]

Your link will not work for me... this lot is very secluded, finding it is tricky. The average person driving by would miss it as that side of the road is a large forest area with a narrow laneway in the middle. Driving on this stretch of road your eyes go towards the house across the road, most of this road is just boring looking farm fields. Perhaps MR and TLM visited this area previous to April 8th. JMO

I agree with flip flop. When driving by you don't notice the lane way is in set in with a bunch of trees. Like I have said before if it wasn't for the purple flowers on the fence no one would know it was there. If there wasn't a fence on it at all now you wouldn't find it. You would need to know where you are going. IMHO

 

[KMouse]

Hi snoofer - can you link this information up for us? I would be interested in seeing these statistics.

Thanks!

Salem

Predators: Pedophiles, Rapists, And Other Sex Offenders --Anna Salter

This book was suggested to me but I have yet to read it.

 

[maxfactor]

This is probably here nor there but I just noticed that "Mike Tzs Man"has a phone number with a 905 area code. You'd think if he had been back in Woodstock for a year he would have gotten a Woodstock number. Every local call would have had long distance charges???

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

 

[Confusedashell]

This is probably here nor there but I just noticed that "Mike Tzs Man"has a phone number with a 905 area code. You'd think if he had been back in Woodstock for a year he would have gotten a Woodstock number. Every local call would have had long distance charges???

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

Where is 905 out of

 

[BorgQueen]

This is probably here nor there but I just noticed that "Mike Tzs Man"has a phone number with a 905 area code. You'd think if he had been back in Woodstock for a year he would have gotten a Woodstock number. Every local call would have had long distance charges???

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

Not necessarily. I noticed, with my cellphone, if it is within the province, the call is local in the city you are in. My cell is for the GTA, and it is local then, but calling my father out of the city it is long distance. But if I leave the area and am out with my dad, calling his phone is suddenly local, but calling home becomes long distance. If that is making any sense, not good at explaining it. I think whether a mobile call is long distance or not depends on what cell tower the call is made from.

 

[maxfactor]

Where is 905 out of

It's Toronto, Hamilton, Niagara area:

http://www.areacodelocations.info/9/905.html

 

[Alethea Dice]

But remember that this video was taken in July, when the leaves, weeds and grass are at there fullest growth. In early april (and the area had a late spring) there were no buds yet on the trees, the grass, weeds etc had not started growing and was flattened from the winter season, visibility up the lane would look much different. JMO I hope the jury is going there this week, as the buds etc are just starting to come out on the trees.

In this link about half way down, there is a pic of the top of the laneway...again this is taken in july. This is an overhead shot, the rockpile is not visible as the trees are covering it from this angle. Rockpile is to the right of the vehicles.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/08/tori-stafford-murder/

here is the same location (top of lane) at a different angle. This shows how tall the grass is in july. Today April 1st it looks much different.
http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/Ontario/2009/07/20/001-corps_mount_forest.shtml

Thanks for all your help in trying to get a better visual of the area, flipflop. I can understand why it's important for the jury to visit the site and agree that it would be best to visit at a time when the growth is comparable to what it would have been in 2009. I find the evidence pictures can be deceiving when trying to determine distances. The silos also confuse me. I remember a tweet that said the silos were visible when the leaves weren't on the trees. The evidence pictures seem to talk about silos to the north and to the south, but in TLM's drawing, if the direction arrow is correct, the silos appear to be to the east. I'm still unsure which silos she was talking about in her statements.

 

[dilbert]

This is probably here nor there but I just noticed that "Mike Tzs Man"has a phone number with a 905 area code. You'd think if he had been back in Woodstock for a year he would have gotten a Woodstock number. Every local call would have had long distance charges???

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

He hadn't been in Woodstock for the full year. He explains in the interview that he moved in with his g/f, then they both moved in with his mother for a few weeks. They broke up, he got a job in Oakville, moved in with a girl there, then eventually came back to Woodstock in Jan/Feb 2009.

RAFFERTY: oh a few months

JOHNSON: just a few months so when did you arrive in Woodstock

RAFFERTY: ah I don’t know exactly it was like I was I was here for a bit um beginning of last summer like for um like my girlfriend and I had a place and then ah we came here to stay with my mom and my girlfriend um moved out and I stayed with my mom and then I met a new girlfriend and I moved in with her for a bit but not legally lived with her like we just I just stayed there a lot when I came here like once a month to visit

JOHNSON: okay so just to go back so you you moved to Woodstock when was that

RAFFERTY: ah

JOHNSON: with your girlfriend

RAFFERTY: yeah that was that was last year like the beginning of last year

JOHNSON: in the winter spring

RAFFERTY: I think it was in the winter that we came here other no it was it was beginning of spring the end of winter beginning of spring that that we came here

JOHNSON: what year

RAFFERTY: last year

JOHNSON: two thousand and eight (2008)

skipping a few parts, then he explains further;

JOHNSON: okay so how long did you stay with your mom for

RAFFERTY: um we I stayed for a couple weeks

JOHNSON: yep

RAFFERTY: um it was just my girlfriend and I for a couple weeks and then I started working in Oakville with my brother um and then I met somebody there so I started spending more time with them and then well in that time my girlfriend had already moved out um she went and she just wasn’t happy so she moved out and then while I was working there I met somebody who lived like right in the area that I was working in so I stayed

JOHNSON: in Oakville

RAFFERTY: yeah

JOHNSON: okay

RAFFERTY: so I stayed with her for a little bit and then um like I still technically lived here but I was never here at all

JOHNSON: whereabouts in Oakville were you working

RAFFERTY: Glen Abbey

JOHNSON: oh okay

RAFFERTY: um yeah and then my brother’s business was done but then I kept business going for myself which was good um doing the same kind of stuff like construction landscaping and stuff

JOHNSON: yeah

RAFFERTY: and then she ah my girlfriend the girl I was seeing at the time there was getting me like a lot of jobs and stuff so that was good

JOHNSON: that’s good yeah

RAFFERTY: um then I came back here after Christmas because her and I split up so I came back here after Christmas and it was like um January February ish that I came here

JOHNSON: two thousand nine (2009)

 

[Wondergirl]

Justice for Tori Stafford

VIDEO: March 31, 2012 21:07

Rodney Stafford talks to Charles about the murder of his daughter, the fight for justice, 'Tori's Law', and bringing back the death penalty.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/justice-for-tori-stafford/1540700698001

 

[swedie]

This is probably here nor there but I just noticed that "Mike Tzs Man"has a phone number with a 905 area code. You'd think if he had been back in Woodstock for a year he would have gotten a Woodstock number. Every local call would have had long distance charges???

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

Cell phones are different though. My area code is 613 but my son's cell is a different area code and he lives in the same city, so I wouldn't think you can actually tell be the area code of a cell phone. Home phones, landlines yes but I don't think the same applies for cells. Don't take my word on it though as I'm not up on this technology. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

This is probably here nor there but I just noticed that "Mike Tzs Man"has a phone number with a 905 area code. You'd think if he had been back in Woodstock for a year he would have gotten a Woodstock number. Every local call would have had long distance charges???

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

According to his police interview, he had only been back since January/February of 2009. He moved to Woodstock with his girlfriend at the end of winter/beginning of spring of 2008, but then he started working for his brother in Oakville and stayed there until he moved back to his mother's after Christmas.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

Sorry, I see Dilbert has already answered this.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Does anyone know if they are in court tomorrow due to good friday??

The trial should continue tomorrow.

Superior Court Justice Thomas Heeney, on the other hand, has rescheduled a trial date in Woodstock that was originally set for Monday April 2nd– this will allow for 4 straight days of court proceedings beginning Monday April 2ndthrough to Thursday April 5th.

The court will then break for Easter for 4 days beginning Good Friday and will reconvene the following Tuesday.

http://www.1047.ca/local-news/michael-rafferty-trial

 

[~n/t~]

Justice for Tori Stafford

VIDEO: March 31, 2012 21:07

Rodney Stafford talks to Charles about the murder of his daughter, the fight for justice, 'Tori's Law', and bringing back the death penalty.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/justice-for-tori-stafford/1540700698001

Yay Rodney! I'm behind you 100%! God Bless and keep the strength and courage to go on fighting for Tori's Law! :clap:

 

[antiquegirl]

Where is 905 out of

Somewhere I read that MTR's cell number was from when he lived in Burlington. Not sure if that's even long distance to and from Woodstock.

http://areacode.org/905

JMO

 

[Tahorn]

After looking at the map where VS was found I have to wonder if she killed somewhere else and only buried there. I can not imagine that in the daylight hours that no one heard the cries of a child being brutalize over and over again. Sound travelers in the open landscape ...


43.961577 -80.660334

 

[OhSoCurious]

After looking at the map where VS was found I have to wonder if she killed somewhere else and only buried there. I can not imagine that in the daylight hours that no one heard the cries of a child being brutalize over and over again. Sound travelers in the open landscape ...


43.961577 -80.660334

Wouldn't that be something? Maybe this will be defined more when the jurors visit.

 

[flipflop]

After looking at the map where VS was found I have to wonder if she killed somewhere else and only buried there. I can not imagine that in the daylight hours that no one heard the cries of a child being brutalize over and over again. Sound travelers in the open landscape ...


43.961577 -80.660334

The only ones that could have heard anything (if they were outside) would be the family that lives across the road. This house is approx 500m away. Nothing else is close by. The rest of the community were attending a mennonite wedding that evening according to one that was interviewed just after the discovery. You really have to be out there at the site, to understand how secluded this area is.