trial thread: 3/30/2012

[swedie]

Perhaps because it was narrow, slushy and dark? And he could see that the lane widened up ahead? JMO

I don't know what time they arrived at this spot in Mount Forest but from what I remember it was around 6pm ish. It would not have been dark.It may have been dark when they left sometime later. I don't think you can see from the bottom of the lane way if it widens up ahead but maybe flipflop would be able to answer that better. To me if looks like all one could see from the entrance way is the lane way goes flat for a bit, slopes down and then rises. One wouldn't know until they are at the top of the incline to know what is up there, but that is just my observation from pictures and MOO.

 

[swedie]

The trial should continue tomorrow.



http://www.1047.ca/local-news/michael-rafferty-trial

As far as I know the trial runs Tuesday to Friday, 10am - 4:30pm typically. Friday will be Good Friday I can't see them sitting in on Good Friday. Just a guess but I believe this is going to be a short week Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Maybe Thursday the jurors will go to the site. Just a guess.:moo:

 

[dilbert]

Funny, the entrance to the lane way leading to where Tori was found is just as clear as the lane way to the house across the road.

MOO

 

[Tahorn]

The only ones that could have heard anything (if they were outside) would be the family that lives across the road. This house is approx 500m away. Nothing else is close by. The rest of the community were attending a mennonite wedding that evening according to one that was interviewed just after the discovery.

Wow, less then one kilometer ... makes me wonder

Waiting on the autopsy ...


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/07/21/11935451-sun.html

 

[flipflop]

I don't know what time they arrived at this spot in Mount Forest but from what I remember it was around 6pm ish. It would not have been dark.It may have been dark when they left sometime later. I don't think you can see from the bottom of the lane way if it widens up ahead but maybe flipflop would be able to answer that better. To me if looks like all one could see from the entrance way is the lane way goes flat for a bit, slopes down and then rises. One wouldn't know until they are at the top of the incline to know what is up there, but that is just my observation from pictures and MOO.

Standing at the road at this time of year (with no leaves, grass etc) you can see the lane which widens a bit at the top. Once you pull in, the lane drops down on a decline, at the lowest part there is a creek beside the lane, then the incline starts which is the narrow part with thick trees on each side. Once near the top it opens up to the right and the lane curves to the left where the rock pile is surrounded by thick trees. From the road you cannot see the rock pile, you just see the lane and trees. The land contines to incline further past the end of the lane.

.

 

[swedie]

This is probably here nor there but I just noticed that "Mike Tzs Man"has a phone number with a 905 area code. You'd think if he had been back in Woodstock for a year he would have gotten a Woodstock number. Every local call would have had long distance charges???

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

I don't believe MR himself knew where he was living at times. He seems very confused in his interview and he did mention he was living with one girlfriend at her place, then they moved in with his mother, then she moved out, then he move in with another woman...yada yada. I wouldn't rely on his interview with LE because it's so tainted with lies, we wouldn't know what is true kwim. HTH and MOO:moo:

 

[Alethea Dice]

I don't know what time they arrived at this spot in Mount Forest but from what I remember it was around 6pm ish. It would not have been dark.It may have been dark when they left sometime later. I don't think you can see from the bottom of the lane way if it widens up ahead but maybe flipflop would be able to answer that better. To me if looks like all one could see from the entrance way is the lane way goes flat for a bit, slopes down and then rises. One wouldn't know until they are at the top of the incline to know what is up there, but that is just my observation from pictures and MOO.

flipflop already answered this, that you can see from the road that the area at the top widens. See post #710. HTH

 

[Alethea Dice]

As far as I know the trial runs Tuesday to Friday, 10am - 4:30pm typically. Friday will be Good Friday I can't see them sitting in on Good Friday. Just a guess but I believe this is going to be a short week Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Maybe Thursday the jurors will go to the site. Just a guess.:moo:

There will be no court on Good Friday. If the link I provided is correct, court will run four days this week, from Monday to Thursday. Here is the link again, and the quote from the link, if you missed it. HTH

http://www.1047.ca/local-news/michael-rafferty-trial

Superior Court Justice Thomas Heeney, on the other hand, has rescheduled a trial date in Woodstock that was originally set for Monday April 2nd– this will allow for 4 straight days of court proceedings beginning Monday April 2ndthrough to Thursday April 5th.

 

[flipflop]

Funny, the entrance to the lane way leading to where Tori was found is just as clear as the lane way to the house across the road.


MOO

wow it does appear that way from this aerial shot, however, it looks much differently from the ground. JMO

 

[dilbert]

wow it does appear that way from this aerial shot, however, it looks much differently from the ground. JMO

Those trees right by the main hwy, at the entrance, are they evergreens or deciduous trees? Do you know?

 

[flipflop]

Those trees right by the main hwy, at the entrance, are they evergreens or deciduous trees? Do you know?

mostly deciduous trees at the beginning of the laneway and along the way up. There are evergreens near the rocks and also afew along the paved road IIRC

I can really see why the crown (or whoever made the decision) finds it important for the jury to see this site. You have to be out there to "get" how secluded it is, describing it into words is difficult, to picture the true feeling of the place.

 

[dilbert]

mostly deciduous trees at the beginning of the laneway and along the way up. There are evergreens near the rocks and also afew along the paved road IIRC

I can really see why the crown (or whoever made the decision) finds it important for the jury to see this site. You have to be out there to "get" how secluded it is, describing it into words is difficult, to picture the true feeling of the place.

Thanks. So no leaf cover blocking the view of the entrance in April and no evergreens blocking the view from the road either.

It may not be a place someone would notice if they were just driving down that road the first time, but it's possible someone would notice it if they were actually looking for a secluded place to stop.

MOO

 

[Macright]

Yes there was snow on the ground in the area where VS was left. April 6th we had a snow storm, the snow was very wet and melting on April 8th. That laneway would have been very slushy.

The laneway is about 400m long, inclined and narrow.

thanks..I stand corrected...the Thursday before Easter I travelled the 401 to the Guelph Line exit and then south to Burlington area...I personally do not remember any snow on the ground etc. but then Mount Forest is further north so maybe in that area..regardless it would not have been that much and the lane must have been clear of snow in order for him to attempt driving into the area... strange he wasn't worried enough to think he might get stuck and have to call for help...almost makes one wonder if he had nothing evil on his mind other than maybe a place to a) regroup and try to figure out what to do with the child in his backseat or b) a bathroom stop for Tori...

 

[Tahorn]

thanks..I stand corrected...the Thursday before Easter I travelled the 401 to the Guelph Line exit and then south to Burlington area...I personally do not remember any snow on the ground etc. but then Mount Forest is further north so maybe in that area..regardless it would not have been that much and the lane must have been clear of snow in order for him to attempt driving into the area... strange he wasn't worried enough to think he might get stuck and have to call for help...almost makes one wonder if he had nothing evil on his mind other than maybe a place to a) regroup and try to figure out what to do with the child in his backseat or b) a bathroom stop for Tori...

I have to wonder why one would pick a spot so close to a home and empty fields if you were planning on sexually assaulting a child... One would have to expect she would cry out and if heard there would be no where to go ... One would be trapped ... I question the motive

 

[BorgQueen]

I have to wonder why one would pick a spot so close to a home and empty fields if you were planning on sexually assaulting a child... One would have to expect she would cry out and if heard there would be no where to go ... One would be trapped ... I question the motive

The only way that would make sense is if he has been there before, multiple times. Enough to know whether the people in that house could see/hear, or if they would even be home at all at that time. That, or stupidity.

:moo:

 

[daisy.faithfull]

This is about another case, but I mention it because of the lie detector test.

A little boy went missing a couple of days ago, his mom had put him down to nap, was taking a nap herself and it looks like the little guy woke up, slipped out the door and walked to a pond where he drowned. Before they recovered him it was leaked to the media that the mom had not passed all of her polygraph test. They still have to wait for the autopsy results, but LE has said that they believe it was just a horrible accident.

 

[Kittymama]

Armstrong considered Rafferty, 31, a “confidante” and sold him pills a few times a month for more than a year. The two had met as co-workers at a meat packing plant in late 2008.

Armstrong testified she sold Rafferty more painkillers a few days later and met with him on a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009.

RSBM:

This can't be right. More shoddy reporting? Forgive me if this has been posted already, but I noticed it and wanted to point it out before I lost track of the post. If they met in late 2008, and he was arrested in May 2009, then she didn't know him for over a year, and thus couldn't have sold him pills "a few times a month for more than a year." They would have only known each other for a few months.

 

[kmclaren]

RSBM:

This can't be right. More shoddy reporting? Forgive me if this has been posted already, but I noticed it and wanted to point it out before I lost track of the post. If they met in late 2008, and he was arrested in May 2009, then she didn't know him for over a year, and thus couldn't have sold him pills "a few times a month for more than a year." They would have only known each other for a few months.

MR & BA knew each other for over 6 years...

The two had met about six years ago, when they were both working for a meatpacking plant in Guelph. She was in packaging, and he worked a couple of different jobs, including meat cutting, before he was laid off, Armstrong said. They dated for about two months then remained friends, she said.



Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStorie...-murder-trial-continues-120327/#ixzz1qrLEvcIQ

 

[swedie]

RSBM:

This can't be right. More shoddy reporting? Forgive me if this has been posted already, but I noticed it and wanted to point it out before I lost track of the post. If they met in late 2008, and he was arrested in May 2009, then she didn't know him for over a year, and thus couldn't have sold him pills "a few times a month for more than a year." They would have only known each other for a few months.

Yes looks like a typo which should have been 2006 instead of 2008. Darn reporters. Everyone in a hurry to get that important news out there ASAP.

Armstrong saw Rafferty about a dozen times between April 8 and his arrest on May 19, she said. During one visit, they discussed surveillance video that showed a woman in a white puffy coat walking away from the school with Tori.

Rafferty told Armstrong that he thought he recognized the woman and the car, and that police were trying to get her to confess to Tori's kidnapping, Armstrong said.


A Honda believed to be Rafferty's car is seen pulling into a Home Depot parking lot at about 5 p.m., and a man in a white shirt — believed to be Rafferty — is seen crossing a small lawn and entering a Petro Canada gas bar. Surveillance footage shows Rafferty walk toward an ATM. Records show he tried to withdraw $100 but was denied, then successfully withdrew $80.

He returns to the car, it drives closer to the Home Depot entrance, and a woman identified as McClintic gets out of the passenger side, puts on a white coat then hurries into the store. Interior Home Depot surveillance footage shows her wandering the store then using cash to buy garbage bags and a hammer at the self-checkout.

http://www.globalnews.ca/sports/can...ter+girls+disappearance/6442608842/story.html

About 5 p.m., a Honda Civic is seen on surveillance video pulling into the parking lot of Home Depot on Woodlawn Rd. in Guelph. A man wearing a white shirt gets out of the driver's side, and heads to an ATM at an adjacent Petro-Canada.

http://m.lfpress.com/news/london/19557676?noimage=true

Wowzers I kinda lol when I read this sentence bolded above and in red. "Hey I think I recognize that car." Yep, ok.:waitasec:

Has anyone seen the video of MR getting out of his car near the HD, crossing a small area of grass to go into the PetroCan and then leaving PetroCan walking back to his car? I know I haven't and missed this bit of information until now...hmmm.:waitasec:

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Sometime this weekend how MTR's contact with TLM at Genest had been recorded had been brought up. I was looking through stuff just now and it looks like visit(s) was video taped.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1141555--tori-stafford-murder-trial-horrific-details-of-slaying-revealed-as-case-opens

There is video tape, said Gowdey, of Rafferty with McClintic at Genest.