TURKEY - George Smith, 26, missing from cruise ship, July 2005

[Olivia77]

It makes no sense to me as to why we have heard nothing. Zilch, nada. No pleading for justice from his family, nothing. Yes there was blood on the deck but it looks like no one thinks there is any possibility he was somehow removed from the ship and still alive. Far fetched, but anything is possible. It seems to me as if they are certain they know who did it and the authorities have told them to keep quiet. It's all so bizarre.

 

[MrsMush99]

Thanks for the headsup Lilpony. I thought this case had died down in the media. I'm glad to see that it hasn't.

 

[MrsMush99]

It makes no sense to me as to why we have heard nothing. Zilch, nada. No pleading for justice from his family, nothing. Yes there was blood on the deck but it looks like no one thinks there is any possibility he was somehow removed from the ship and still alive. Far fetched, but anything is possible. It seems to me as if they are certain they know who did it and the authorities have told them to keep quiet. It's all so bizarre.

I agree Olivia. I can't imagine why his wife isn't on the news begging for help. You are right, it makes no sense.

 

[lilpony]

I hope they tell us something new, that we don't already know. Which is next to nothing anyways. Us here at WS wants some new news so we can dissect it all. So it better not be the same old stuff. The problem is it comes on tonight at the same time as BB6, which I can't miss either. :doh: And I am not getting DVR until Monday, thru my cable co. Can't wait for that...yippee. As if I need to watch anymore tv..

 

[LinasK]

I watched the last hour, what I gathered is: 1)that everyone presumes George is dead, fell overboard somehow. The former FBI investigator Clint Van Zandt has not ruled out foul play, so although George still could have fallen overboard in a drunken stupor while on the balcony smoking a cigarette, not likely. I also gathered the bride has been cleared of suspicion, possibly from shipboard surveilance tapes the F.B.I. has of public areas of the ship- even though her whereabouts were not known in the time of question. She was seen with the casino manager-in-training, who was aware they had money stashed in the cabin. There appears to have been someone going through the cupboards. One of the four, not the Russian guys, the young college guy Josh was interviewed by Turkish authorities, and his family secretely videotaped it. He may not have left the cabin when the others did and may be lying.
Although the Russians and Jennifer and families are not talking, it is still an active F.B.I. investigation- wouldn't be if it was an accident...

So my original theory about George being stabbed in a fight over Jennifer appears to be wrong at this time...

 

[nanandjim]

I found the show to be very interesting. From what I saw, I now think the 20-year-old boy, Josh, killed George. I bet the FBI is building a case against him. This is what I gathered from the show, much of which I already knew but some that I didn't.

According to Josh:

Jennifer and George were drinking and gambling at the casino. Jennifer was at the blackjack table and George was at the craps table. George went back to the room to get more money for Jennifer because she was losing.

When the casino closed, they all headed to the disco. In the elevator the casino manager had his arm around Jennifer, which Josh thought was inappropriate and made him feel uncomfortable.

At the disco, someone pulled out his own bottle of Absinthe (which is against the rules), and all of the guys did a bunch of shots. George got pretty drunk. Jennifer was sitting on a couch and the casino manager (or manager-in-training) sat next to her.

When the disco closed, the four guys helped George back to his room. Jennifer was not with them. In fact, Josh said that when he saw Jennifer the next day, she was wearing the same dress as she had worn the night before.

Now, for the interesting part (which I think is altered by Josh to cover his actions).

Josh says that he went to the bathroom while the three Russian guys put George on the bed and took off his shoes. Then, they all left and went to the Russian guys' room and ordered room service. Josh eventually went back to his room around 5:15 a.m. according to his attorney, who now does all of his talking for him.

In Josh's initial interview, he kept pointing the finger at the casino manager, saying that he was hitting on Jennifer. Plus, he pointed out that he thought that the casino manager knew that George said that he was going back to the room to get money.

After hearing what the people in the rooms next to George heard and after hearing what Josh had to say, I really think something slightly different happened.

The retired cop in one of the rooms next to George's heard about 5-6 people in the room. They were loud and sounded as if they were having a party. He was very specific about times, but I won't go into that here.

The cop called security to complain about all of the noise. He said after a while he heard some of the people out in the hallway leaving. I think that he even looked out of his room and saw three young men heading down the hall.

Then, he heard ONE voice talking in a normal tone in the room. The conversation seemed to carry out to the balcony.

I can't remember the sequence, but he also heard a bunch of noise as if furniture was being moved around.

Then, he heard someone say several times in a stern voice (out on the balcony) , "GOODNIGHT. I SAID GOODNIGHT" as if someone was trying to get someone out of the room.

Then, he heard a very loud thud.

One thing that I was glad to hear was that there are security cameras everywhere and about 75+ security tapes were turned over to the FBI. So, I am hoping that the FBI know exactly who left the room when, and they know where Jennifer was that night.

Another is the passengers' key cards record everywhere they have been. So, between the security cameras and the key cards, the FBI probably is able to piece together everything that happened in the public area. I only wish that they had cameras on the balcony area, but I don't think that they did (due to privacy issues).

Here's my theory:

I believe everything that Josh said, up to a point. I believe that the four took George back to the room. However, I believe that only the three Russian boys left, and Josh stayed behind, saying that he would meet them in a few minutes as he had to use the bathroom.

I think that Josh used that as an excuse, and he was the single voice in the room. George was probably passed out on the bed. I think that Josh was moving things around looking for George's money. The noise awoke George and a scuffle ensued. The people in the room on the other side of George heard noise as if furniture was being thrown against the wall. I think that this was a fight and George was being thrown against the wall.

I think that it was George who was saying "GOODNIGHT" to Josh. I think that Josh may have thought that George would report him the next day and he is the one that injured George and threw him off of the balcony.

All of this could have happened in 15 minutes (trying to remember the time span the retired cop gave). Josh then left and joined the Russian boys (mainly for an alibi).

I just hope there were security cameras in the hall, catching the Russians leaving and then catching when Josh left.

 

[nanandjim]

...I can't imagine why his wife isn't on the news begging for help. You are right, it makes no sense.

After seeing Dateline last night, I think that the family "knows" what most likely happened. I believe that the FBI has pieced it together from the security tapes and the key cards that the passengers used.

 

[MrsMush99]

Nan,

I missed Dateline last night. Are you saying that they know who murdered George???

 

[nanandjim]

Nan,

I missed Dateline last night. Are you saying that they know who murdered George???

Daisy - I posted a really long post in the Dateline thread. The FBI investigation is on-going. Dateline was very informative. I didn't post everything that they said, but I posted the highlights.

The retired FBI guy that was on Dateline was very careful in his wording of what he thought was going on. He did question Josh's account of what happened that evening. He also said that the FBI most probably knew what went on (from the security tapes and the key card transactions).

 

[MrsMush99]

Thanks Nan, I just read your post. It was very informative and interesting.

 

[MrsMush99]

What I'm wondering, after reading your post Nan, is what exactly Jennifer was doing and who exactly she was with. Same clothes as the night before?? I wonder what she was up to.

 

[nanandjim]

What I'm wondering, after reading your post Nan, is what exactly Jennifer was doing and who exactly she was with. Same clothes as the night before?? I wonder what she was up to.

So do I. The retired FBI guy (Van Zandt??) said that the FBI KNOW where Jennifer was.

If my memory serves me, I believe that the ship's director (I think she was the director) said that the casino manager-in-training and the dealer (who was also with the group) were seen on the security cameras going to their cabins alone around 3:30 a.m.

It was also said that a security person saw Jennifer wobbling and took her to her floor (9th?). Once on the floor, she told the security person that she would be okay, and he left. If this is true, where did she go from there?

I find it hard to believe that she made it to the room, passed out and left for the spa in her same clothes the next morning, much less never missing her husband or wondering where he was...

According to reports, security found her at her appointment in the spa. If this is true, I suspect that she left from whereever she was and hurried to the spa, just in case George "woke up" and was looking for her. She could say that when she got home he was asleep and still asleep when she left for the spa the next morning.

In any case, these two don't sound like any newlyweds that I have ever heard of. Maybe, I'm not up with the times...

 

[MrsMush99]

According to reports, security found her at her appointment in the spa. If this is true, I suspect that she left from whereever she was and hurried to the spa, just in case George "woke up" and was looking for her. She could say that when she got home he was asleep and still asleep when she left for the spa the next morning.

This maybe why she's not talking. Why she's not in front of cameras begging for answers. She was up to something. Something she is embarrassed about is my guess.

 

[nanandjim]

This maybe why she's not talking. Why she's not in front of cameras begging for answers. She was up to something. Something she is embarrassed about is my guess.

I agree. Wouldn't that be your worst nightmare--getting drunk, doing something that you wouldn't normally do and then being exposed for it because your new husband just happens to get murdered that very night? What are the odds of that happening--a million to one???

 

[MrsMush99]

She could also have guilt about not being there. She might be saying to herself, if I were there and not off doing whatever, George might still be alive. Or she could have been killed too. Who knows??? I just hope we get some answers in this case soon.

 

[nanandjim]

Dateline also mentioned that they paid $10,000 for their trip. That's quite a hefty sum for young people to pay for a honeymoon. Wonder if their parents helped with the expense.

ETA: That could also be another reason why someone would think that they had a lot of money. They probably had one of the best suites on the ship.

 

[fran]

I found the show to be very interesting. From what I saw, I now think the 20-year-old boy, Josh, killed George. I bet the FBI is building a case against him. This is what I gathered from the show, much of which I already knew but some that I didn't.
snip.......................................

Here's my theory:

I believe everything that Josh said, up to a point. I believe that the four took George back to the room. However, I believe that only the three Russian boys left, and Josh stayed behind, saying that he would meet them in a few minutes as he had to use the bathroom.

I think that Josh used that as an excuse, and he was the single voice in the room. George was probably passed out on the bed. I think that Josh was moving things around looking for George's money. The noise awoke George and a scuffle ensued. The people in the room on the other side of George heard noise as if furniture was being thrown against the wall. I think that this was a fight and George was being thrown against the wall.

I think that it was George who was saying "GOODNIGHT" to Josh. I think that Josh may have thought that George would report him the next day and he is the one that injured George and threw him off of the balcony.

All of this could have happened in 15 minutes (trying to remember the time span the retired cop gave). Josh then left and joined the Russian boys (mainly for an alibi).

I just hope there were security cameras in the hall, catching the Russians leaving and then catching when Josh left.

Nan:
I saw this program as well. I think you have a good theory.

If I'm not mistaken, in the beginning, many people thought the Russian boys might be responsible. But I like your theory better after seeing the show last night. What you say makes perfect sense, IMO.

I believe this case will be solved.

JMHO
fran

 

[CrimeHater]

I TiVoed Dateline last night. I couldn't watch it because it Friday and my kids were up late. So I can't wait to watch it. Did the wife interview at all? It didn't look like she did from the previews.

 

[CrimeHater]

I had to TiVo the show.... but after reading Nan's thoughts I can't wait!

I think your theroy, Nan, really sounds like a possibility.

 

[BrendaStar]

Did the wife interview at all? It didn't look like she did from the previews.

She interviewed with the FBI, but not on camera. She has been cleared by the FBI, but where was she between 3:30 am and when she showed up at the salon at 8 am? The FBI knows. One thing, for sure, she never went back to the room that night.

Strange honeymoon.