GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

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Im catching up on new posts...but has there been any report of US law enforcement going there to do their own investigation? I am not sure I always trust a foreign investigation of any crime to an American in a foreign country such as this. How good are thier investigators? How biased? How good is there forensic team? What are their crime scene procedures and handling of evidence like? Would they engage in a coverup of some sort in order to protect "their name" "their tourist industry" ?

I have yet to read that the FBI is on their way....

Im afraid we may never know what really happened :/

ETA. I hope my post doesn't offend non-Americans here...that is not my intent!
 
CMac2 said:
Did she have a camera? I've been wondering about this as well, but everything I'm reading says she didn't have one- that she was using her phone to take pictures on, and uploading them to IG. If she had one, it seems that is missing too, along with her other electronics.
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Well, thats what I meant by camera,her phone or whatever she was using.
 
I think I may understand now what they mean about her being moved. She could have been struck on the head and have her electronics stolen close to where she was found and moved into the hole to delay her body from being found. The 'movement' could have been only a short distance.
 
CMac2 said:
Completely O/T, but I keep refreshing my screen, and going back to already-read articles to see if there are any updates on the case. It is making my blood boil, reading the comments of ignorant readers. The general consensus seems to be an American woman traveling alone to Turkey is an idiot, and she deserved what happened. Smart American women stay in the US and do not venture out. When did we become so closed-minded and cold? Like it's a crime to want to experience something outside of your own back yard. SMH.

Ok, done with my rant. Back to the case!
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The most common adjective that I have seen in connection to this case is "naive."

When you hire someone for a job, you look at their employment history and references. If SS had arranged to meet up with people who had references, or stay in a place with references, she would have been much safer.

Why do women go solo to these non-Western countries? Because they LOVE the culture so much. What's the culture like? Women wear veils, travel with chaperones, and defer to their husband's judgment. So we have an intrinsic contradiction.

Why do they really go to these countries? They can't afford the Riviera or Cham.
 
prima.facie said:
Im catching up on new posts...but has there been any report of US law enforcement going there to do their own investigation? I am not sure I always trust a foreign investigation of any crime to an American in a foreign country such as this. How good are thier investigators? How biased? How good is there forensic team? What are their crime scene procedures and handling of evidence like? Would they engage in a coverup of some sort in order to protect "their name" "their tourist industry" ?

I have yet to read that the FBI is on their way....

Im afraid we may never know what really happened :/

ETA. I hope my post doesn't offend non-Americans here...that is not my intent!
Click to expand...

According to the most recent articles, the FBI is there, and is assisting in the investigation.
 
CMac2 said:
I don't know enough about Turkey's legal system to say for sure whether or not they had a choice BUT to release him. For example, it's a regular occurrence here in MO that POIs are called in for questioning- it's clear to LE that the person knows something important- but in the end they have to let him/her go, for lack of evidence. If they need evidence to hold him, and there isn't any at this moment, would they have had a choice? Again, I don't know one way or another, as I'm just not familiar with Turkey's investigation process. But I do know if it's anything like our system, it happens every day.

Obviously being more familiar with the country itself, maybe you can shed some light on that particular aspect of things?

In my mind, the FBI's involvement has nothing to do with whether or not Turkey will arrest a suspect. The FBI doesn't have jurisdiction and would merely be assisting the investigation as a courtesy.

I don't know that any suspect has to prove they weren't involved in a crime. Rather, LE has to prove they WERE involved.
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In Turkey when police detain somebody they can hold that person for 24 hours and have to release him/her afterwards if they can not prove he is involved. I have been looking for the exact time Taylan was detained. I remember reading an article with exact times on it but I couldn't find now. (Some sources say it was 1:00 am when he was detained, no info about when he was released) If I recall correctly it was under 24 hours, meaning that police didn't use all their time so I arrived to the conclusion that not only police couldn't find anything but probably somehow he proved that he was not there so they released him. Of course I might be very wrong.

In some rare cases police may ask for special permission to keep that person up to 4 days.

Hope this is a little helpful, I couldn't find an english document/article to back up what I am saying.

I only mentioned FBI to explain it is a big case and being followed internationally as i felt like police is working harder than ever. I probably didn't need to say that.
 
Walker said:
The most common adjective that I have seen in connection to this case is "naive."

When you hire someone for a job, you look at their employment history and references. If SS had arranged to meet up with people who had references, or stay in a place with references, she would have been much safer.

Why do women go solo to these non-Western countries? Because they LOVE the culture so much. What's the culture like? Women wear veils, travel with chaperones, and defer to their husband's judgment. So we have an intrinsic contradiction.

Why do they really go to these countries? They can't afford the Riviera or Cham.
Click to expand...

Quite frankly, I have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect you have no clue either. There is nothing to support a single word of what you're claiming- things you're so arrogant as to state as fact. Istanbul is not full of women wearing veils and traveling with chaperones, deferring to their husbands' authority. Are there women in veils that live there? Absolutely! But guess what? There are women in veils right here in the good ol' US of A too.

Life isn't about the Riviera and Cham. I traveled Eastern Europe in the '90s, and I did it alone. My family was able to afford all kinds of things for me- but that wasn't the point. I purposely bypassed Paris and London, as while I know they're beautiful, I wanted something different. I wanted to see what I deemed at the time to be real life, something off the beaten path. I spent time in Serbia, I spent time in Hungary, the Czech Republic and Turkey. I loved every minute of it, and never had a problem. I, too, stayed in a hostel. Several of them, actually. I still chat with some of the people I met along the way.

I THOUGHT I'd gained new insight and an awesome view of what part of the world looks like outside of my own sheltered existence. According you, however, I was clearly wrong. I was simply looking for trouble, right? Probably deserved to be killed, even!

Your views are backwards and offensive, to say the least.
 
lavy said:
In Turkey when police detain somebody they can hold that person for 24 hours and have to release him/her afterwards if they can not prove he is involved. I have been looking for the exact time Taylan was detained. I remember reading an article with exact times on it but I couldn't find now. (Some sources say it was 1:00 am when he was detained, no info about when he was released) If I recall correctly it was under 24 hours, meaning that police didn't use all their time so I arrived to the conclusion that not only police couldn't find anything but probably somehow he proved that he was not there so they released him. Of course I might be very wrong.

In some rare cases police may ask for special permission to keep that person up to 4 days.

Hope this is a little helpful, I couldn't find an english document/article to back up what I am saying.

I only mentioned FBI to explain it is a big case and being followed internationally as i felt like police is working harder than ever. I probably didn't need to say that.
Click to expand...

Does the fact that he did not meet them at their facilities change anything with regards to his detainment? I remember reading he wouldn't meet them at the police station, asking instead to be questioned elsewhere. In agreeing to his request, did they compromise their ability to detain him?

I'm not being argumentative, I honestly don't know. If that is the case, perhaps that's part of the reason he wouldn't come to the police station to begin with. Maybe if it all goes down in his territory, and is under his control, he has a better chance of leaving freely when he wants to.
 
Walker said:
The most common adjective that I have seen in connection to this case is "naive."

When you hire someone for a job, you look at their employment history and references. If SS had arranged to meet up with people who had references, or stay in a place with references, she would have been much safer.

Why do women go solo to these non-Western countries? Because they LOVE the culture so much. What's the culture like? Women wear veils, travel with chaperones, and defer to their husband's judgment. So we have an intrinsic contradiction.

Why do they really go to these countries? They can't afford the Riviera or Cham.
Click to expand...

Like CNN says
Millions of foreign tourists visit Turkey every year.

While it is not unusual to hear about foreigners being targeted by pickpockets and bag snatchers, violent crime involving foreign tourists is relatively rare.

Although I would personally never have done what she did, maybe she talked with enough people from that area that she felt it would most likely be safe.
 
Why do women go solo to these non-Western countries? Because they LOVE the culture so much. What's the culture like? Women wear veils, travel with chaperones, and defer to their husband's judgment. So we have an intrinsic contradiction.
Click to expand...

Really? Have you been to Istanbul? Because I can assure you, women there (both local and visitor) act nothing like that. You would be shocked.

Why do they really go to these countries? They can't afford the Riviera or Cham.
Click to expand...

This is a very foolish thing to say, beyond offensive. I've often had plenty of money, and over the plasticized concrete-addled miasma of the Riviera have opted for travel to places I guess you would consider not to be upper-crust. Wealth is not the measure of a person, nor of a region.
 
CMac2 said:
Does the fact that he did not meet them at their facilities change anything with regards to his detainment? I remember reading he wouldn't meet them at the police station, asking instead to be questioned elsewhere. In agreeing to his request, did they compromise their ability to detain him?

I'm not being argumentative, I honestly don't know. If that is the case, perhaps that's part of the reason he wouldn't come to the police station to begin with. Maybe if it all goes down in his territory, and is under his control, he has a better chance of leaving freely when he wants to.
Click to expand...

I think there was a translation mistake as well. He did went to a police station and questioned there. He did not go to the Istanbul police headquarters where all the media is waiting in front of the building.
He was detained in Beyoglu police station, which is one of the major ones.
 
tresptip said:
I don't know where I read it but I also read somewhere at one of the posted links in this thread that the blow to her head was the only injury she had.Does anyone know where I read that at?
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I read it too- it was in one of the Turkish articles lavy translated for us. Something about a "scar" (which I took to mean trauma) to her head, which killed her, and something about how there were not other injuries- no stab wounds, etc. I don't remember the source, other than it was Turkish and needed translating in order for the rest of us to understand it.
 
Although I've never been a huge fan of the theory that Sarai was killed elsewhere and then dumped in Seraiburnu, I don't think the "eye witness story" (i.e. a lady witnessing someone take a body out of a car) should be dismissed just yet. Clearly the lady in question believed she had seen what she claims she did, otherwise she wouldn't have gone to the police. For the police chief to publicly state (see the Today Zaman article) that she is lying is very rude and arrogant. What kind of a motive would she have had to lie about something like that?
The police in Turkey don't have a great reputation. I just don't see any normal person going to them with a made-up story.

I'm starting to think that maybe the dumping did take place just as the lady described and the police just don't want to investigate it...
 
lavy said:
I think there was a translation mistake as well. He did went to a police station and questioned there. He did not go to the Istanbul police headquarters where all the media is waiting in front of the building.
He was detained in Beyoglu police station, which is one of the major ones.
Click to expand...

OK, that makes me feel better. I was imagining him at the local Starbucks with LE, answering questions as part of casual conversation, free to leave any time he felt like it. At least he was questioned at an actual station somewhere.
 
prima.facie said:
Im catching up on new posts...but has there been any report of US law enforcement going there to do their own investigation? I am not sure I always trust a foreign investigation of any crime to an American in a foreign country such as this. How good are thier investigators? How biased? How good is there forensic team? What are their crime scene procedures and handling of evidence like? Would they engage in a coverup of some sort in order to protect "their name" "their tourist industry" ?

I have yet to read that the FBI is on their way....

Im afraid we may never know what really happened :/

ETA. I hope my post doesn't offend non-Americans here...that is not my intent!
Click to expand...

From what I have read FBI was involved from the beginning. This is from CNN 29th Jan:

BERMAN: The congressman from Staten Island who is working on this case has walked in as we've been talking to Magdalena here. Can I ask how helpful have the Turkish authorities been, Congressman?

REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL GRIMM (R), NEW YORK: They've been very, very helpful. The one good thing here is we have excellent relationships with the local authorities in Istanbul. Many of them trained with our FBI. The State Department is all over this. They've elevated this to the highest levels.

Their chief on the ground is working very closely with them, so at every level from the ambassador's office to the consular, everything has been elevated to the highest levels and they're taking this very, very seriously. It's a very safe city overall.
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I do understand your concern, it seems like media is a bit worried about protecting their name but from what I see police is trying to solve the case as soon as possible. They have special teams for this case etc.
 
CMac2 said:
I read it too- it was in one of the Turkish articles lavy translated for us. Something about a "scar" (which I took to mean trauma) to her head, which killed her, and something about how there were not other injuries- no stab wounds, etc. I don't remember the source, other than it was Turkish and needed translating in order for the rest of us to understand it.
Click to expand...

Found it :

lavy said:
It says that there was a scar on the left side of her head and her skull was fractured. No other scars, no stabbing wounds and no gun shot wounds.
Click to expand...

This is the source :http://www.medya73.com/sarai-sorusturmasinda-gmail-kayitlari-bekleniyor-haberi-1204769.html


CMac2 said:
OK, that makes me feel better. I was imagining him at the local Starbucks with LE, answering questions as part of casual conversation, free to leave any time he felt like it. At least he was questioned at an actual station somewhere.
Click to expand...

:) Please don't get me wrong but imagining that is the first thing made me laugh today.
 
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