GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

[radiator]

This link has a news video of the reporter pretty much right near the scene, police combing the area, etc. It gives a good view of the area where she was found. It's a lot grassier and moundy than I was picturing.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...ist-turkey-killed-blow-head/story?id=18391296

I'd been thinking it was the case and this video confirms that I walked right past this spot when I was there in october. I stayed on the sidewalk and didn't climb up in that grassy area. there were few people on the sidewalk--it's not a very pleasant stroll with cars racing by--so I can imagine her either getting killed or suffering a fatal injury without being noticed even in the middle of the day.

as to the question about wouldn't there be injuries aside from the head injury if she fell--I'm not so sure abrasions/bruises/cuts would show a week later but I know very little about the decomposition process.

 

[bourne]

Although I've never been a huge fan of the theory that Sarai was killed elsewhere and then dumped in Seraiburnu, I don't think the "eye witness story" (i.e. a lady witnessing someone take a body out of a car) should be dismissed just yet. Clearly the lady in question believed she had seen what she claims she did, otherwise she wouldn't have gone to the police. For the police chief to publicly state (see the Today Zaman article) that she is lying is very rude and arrogant. What kind of a motive would she have had to lie about something like that?
The police in Turkey don't have a great reputation. I just don't see any normal person going to them with a made-up story.

I'm starting to think that maybe the dumping did take place just as the lady described and the police just don't want to investigate it...

I'm inclined to believe that her real murderer(s) dumped her in a shady part of town in order to incriminate the homeless, poverty-strickened, and drug-addicts who live there. To me, it makes no sense that these reportedly impecunious people would leave her ring, earrings and other jewelry behind and only take her laptop and phone.

Did they ever find out if the blanket that they found next to her body contained her DNA? If so, it could have been used to wrap her up and dispose of her there.

Aren't there cameras in the surrounding areas that would have captured the white car that the female eyewitness claimed she saw?

 

[CMac2]

as to the question about wouldn't there be injuries aside from the head injury if she fell--I'm not so sure abrasions/bruises/cuts would show a week later but I know very little about the decomposition process.

I've always had the impression that things like abrasions/bruises/cuts cannot heal after someone has died. The cells have to be alive in order to repair themselves, which is why LE can usually tell if a victim showed signs of a struggle (superficial cuts on hands, arms, etc) or not after they've died.

I could be wrong on that, though. I'm the one who thought Taylan had been interrogated by police in the local Starbucks-type establishment! :blushing:

 

[tresptip]

I'd been thinking it was the case and this video confirms that I walked right past this spot when I was there in october. I stayed on the sidewalk and didn't climb up in that grassy area. there were few people on the sidewalk--it's not a very pleasant stroll with cars racing by--so I can imagine her either getting killed or suffering a fatal injury without being noticed even in the middle of the day.

as to the question about wouldn't there be injuries aside from the head injury if she fell--I'm not so sure abrasions/bruises/cuts would show a week later but I know very little about the decomposition process.

If she had bruises elsewhere she most likely would not have fractured her head because what ever part of her body got hit would have helped to break the fall.She was fully dressed so it would be easy not to get scratched in the fall. A direct hit to her head could kill her though.I'd be interested in what part of her head was hit.Front,back,side?

 

[bourne]

I thought cause of death was a blow to the head, not stabbed in the head?

Initially when the news first broke that her body was found, there were MSM articles that stated she sustained stab wounds. The latest is that she sustained a blow to her head and that is the cause of her death. But that doesn't necessarily exclude the fact that she might have been stabbed in her head or elsewhere in her body. We have to wait for the official autopsy report.

Right now, I am assuming she was stabbed somewhere in her body, and that her head was bashed with some force by a hard instrument by a violent homicidal maniac.

 

[ToutCa]

I'm inclined to believe that her real murderer(s) dumped her in a shady part of town in order to incriminate the homeless, poverty-strickened, and drug-addicts who live there. To me, it makes no sense that these reportedly impecunious people would leave her ring, earrings and other jewelry behind and only take her laptop and phone.

She appears to have walked right up to at least very near where she died. To play devil's advocate, though, maybe a thief grabbed for the iPad/phone, she fell on her head, he panicked and ran. It's at least plausible, if not likely.

Did they ever find out if the blanket that they found next to her body contained her DNA? If so, it could have been used to wrap her up and dispose of her there.

Tests are in the works. We'll have to wait and see.

Aren't there cameras in the surrounding areas that would have captured the white car that the female eyewitness claimed she saw?

It's a pretty lengthy stretch of road with not much there in the way of businesses with surveillance cameras. But I'm sure LE is checking what is there to see if there is anything to her story.

 

[bourne]

If she had bruises elsewhere she most likely would not have fractured her head because what ever part of her body got hit would have helped to break the fall.She was fully dressed so it would be easy not to get scratched in the fall. A direct hit to her head could kill her though.I'd be interested in what part of her head was hit.Front,back,side?

The news reports keep saying that her head was "struck" by a "blow". It does not sound like she fell and hit her head on the pavement or concrete. I don't think she tripped or fell. I believe she was forcefully struck by someone violent on her head with a hard instrument. I'm just waiting for the AR to confirm.

 

[radiator]

I've always had the impression that things like abrasions/bruises/cuts cannot heal after someone has died. The cells have to be alive in order to repair themselves, which is why LE can usually tell if a victim showed signs of a struggle (superficial cuts on hands, arms, etc) or not after they've died.

I could be wrong on that, though. I'm the one who thought Taylan had been interrogated by police in the local Starbucks-type establishment! :blushing:

warning! graphic speculation: ITA that they wouldn't heal but perhaps a week after death there would be further degradation of the flesh that would make them difficult to see?

if she was actually found in that hole (and it's deep) I could imagine a scenario where she was up there taking pictures (she'd want to get up high to take photos of the sea or the lighthouse without the highway in the frame) and somebody grabbed her ipad and phone. then she started running away and fell into the hole suffering the fatal head injury in the process.

 

[ami]

warning! graphic speculation: ITA that they wouldn't heal but perhaps a week after death there would be further degradation of the flesh that would make them difficult to see?

if she was actually found in that hole (and it's deep) I could imagine a scenario where she was up there taking pictures (she'd want to get up high to take photos of the sea or the lighthouse without the highway in the frame) and somebody grabbed her ipad and phone. then she started running away and fell into the hole suffering the fatal head injury in the process.

I agree though that the police aren't calling it a "head injury" - they're saying it was a blow to the head.

 

[tresptip]

The news reports keep saying that her head was "struck" by a "blow". It does not sound like she fell and hit her head on the pavement or concrete. I don't think she tripped or fell. I believe she was forcefully struck by someone violent on her head with a hard instrument. I'm just waiting for the AR to confirm.

Just my opinion but a blow to the head could come from anything that was hard enough to fracture it which the ground definately is.
In my opinion if someone hit her in the head to kill her that they probably would have done it at least a few times to make sure she was dead.
It sounds like though she only had one blow to the head.

 

[Wanderlust]

I'm inclined to believe that her real murderer(s) dumped her in a shady part of town in order to incriminate the homeless, poverty-strickened, and drug-addicts who live there. To me, it makes no sense that these reportedly impecunious people would leave her ring, earrings and other jewelry behind and only take her laptop and phone.

Did they ever find out if the blanket that they found next to her body contained her DNA? If so, it could have been used to wrap her up and dispose of her there.

Aren't there cameras in the surrounding areas that would have captured the white car that the female eyewitness claimed she saw?

Yes, that would be a good place to dump a body, if you wanted to incriminate the local inhabitants. However, there are other notorious areas too in Istanbul without a very busy road next to them.

I have clearly spent too much time in Turkey, a country which is full of conspiracy theories, but I'm wondering if the police have a reason to dismiss the "eye witness lady's" account as a lie...Maybe the police know who dumped the body there but are protecting them...Trust me there are weirder things going on in Turkey!!

Anyway, here is a local's view on the case that is perhaps worth reading:
http://istanbulian.blogspot.fi/2013/02/on-sarai-sierras-death-and-failure-of.html

 

[CMac2]

Just my opinion but a blow to the head could come from anything that was hard enough to fracture it which the ground definately is.
In my opinion if someone hit her in the head to kill her that they probably would have done it at least a few times to make sure she was dead.
It sounds like though she only had one blow to the head.

That's assuming they actually meant to kill her. We've seem many cases in which a victim was killed by blunt trauma- but the perp just seemed to have snapped and struck. Perhaps there wasn't any thought given to life or death, and the force of the blow happened to killed her.

 

[radiator]

Yes, that would be a good place to dump a body, if you wanted to incriminate the local inhabitants. However, there are other notorious areas too in Istanbul without a very busy road next to them.

I have clearly spent too much time in Turkey, a country which is full of conspiracy theories, but I'm wondering if the police have a reason to dismiss the "eye witness lady's" account as a lie...Maybe the police know who dumped the body there but are protecting them...Trust me there are weirder things going on in Turkey!!

Anyway, here is a local's view on the case that is perhaps worth reading:
http://istanbulian.blogspot.fi/2013/02/on-sarai-sierras-death-and-failure-of.html

fwiw, the author of this blog (who says he's the foreign news editor of a major Turkish newspaper) pretty clearly thinks she was murdered.

 

[KivaSupporter]

If she had bruises elsewhere she most likely would not have fractured her head because what ever part of her body got hit would have helped to break the fall.She was fully dressed so it would be easy not to get scratched in the fall. A direct hit to her head could kill her though.I'd be interested in what part of her head was hit.Front,back,side?

It was reported as left front. I cannot find the link at the moment.

 

[bourne]

Just my opinion but a blow to the head could come from anything that was hard enough to fracture it which the ground definately is.
In my opinion if someone hit her in the head to kill her that they probably would have done it at least a few times to make sure she was dead.
It sounds like though she only had one blow to the head.

Since the news stories are saying she was definitely murdered, I am going to go out on a limb and say that the police have physical evidence indicating that she was assaulted by someone other than a nonliving object such as the ground.

 

[ToutCa]

LAVY - There's a new article up in the Turkish press - if you could translate the very beginning, it would be great.

After all my misadventures with google translate, I don't want to post quotes from it here.

But it covers new alleged details of the condition in which the body was discovered, including (without being too specific) disposition of its clothing which suggested sexual assault even though it repeats that preliminary rape tests were negative.

Lavy, take a look if you can and post a more detailed translation:

LINK

Like others, the article also insists there was an attacker of some kind and she was murdered. FWIW

 

[ToutCa]

fwiw, the author of this blog (who says he's the foreign news editor of a major Turkish newspaper) pretty clearly thinks she was murdered.

Very interesting stuff. But he's got his own political axe to grind, so it sounds like he would love for the perp to be a crazed wall-dwelling addict so the writer can stick it to city officials and say, see, told ya so.

He may be right, but he'll be right for the wrong reasons.

Looooong way to go to get justice for SS, I'm guessing...

 

[lavy]

It was reported as left front. I cannot find the link at the moment.

I am not sure if we have seen elsewhere but the link below says its on the left and on the top of her head (is that the right way to say it). I also remember reading left-front but not sute now. Next time I am talking about a case I'll copy down the links of everything I reaf!

http://www.medya73.com/sarai-sorusturmasinda-gmail-kayitlari-bekleniyor-haberi-1204769.html

 

[CMac2]

LAVY - There's a new article up in the Turkish press - if you could translate the very beginning, it would be great.

After all my misadventures with google translate, I don't want to post quotes from it here.

But it covers new alleged details of the condition in which the body was discovered, including (without being too specific) disposition of its clothing which suggested sexual assault even though it repeats that preliminary rape tests were negative.

Lavy, take a look if you can and post a more detailed translation:

LINK

Like others, the article also insists there was an attacker of some kind and she was murdered. FWIW

If it's saying what I think it's saying, it sounds like you were right all along, ToutCa.

 

[ami]

LAVY - There's a new article up in the Turkish press - if you could translate the very beginning, it would be great.

After all my misadventures with google translate, I don't want to post quotes from it here.

But it covers new alleged details of the condition in which the body was discovered, including (without being too specific) disposition of its clothing which suggested sexual assault even though it repeats that preliminary rape tests were negative.

Lavy, take a look if you can and post a more detailed translation:

LINK

Like others, the article also insists there was an attacker of some kind and she was murdered. FWIW

Good find! I hope Lavy's around - my chrome translation for that was insane.