GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

[kmassoud]

Sorry; I haven't been involved until now. Just been lurking because I'm obsessed with Middle Eastern culture and have always wanted to go to Turkey. (Even though my Middle Eastern husband said no-way-in-hell I was going to such a dangerous place. Lol.) We're divorced now. I still want to go to Turkey. Hopefully someday I will.

Still my heart breaks for Sarai and her family. It's heavier than I can even imagine.

I WANTED to think Farhad was the man, but I just don't see it now. Surely a person under a microscope would not accept a random friendship within minutes. Poor guy probably has no idea of what he's being accused of.

 

[KuriousKev]

Respectfully, I disagree.

How could you say you can immediately discern an American?

Who are Americans and how many live in this our wonderful country of the USA?

Do you realize that the term "Americans" includes many people of many diverse countries? To you, who is an American?

Let's not generalize. Let's acknowledge any and all nationalities and respect them equally.

Sorry, I do not accept that which you are saying.

Americans are you and I and so many more people. Think acceptance and love. Then, I will accept you and applaud you.

Until then, I love you and I understand you, dear friends, whatever your origin.

I, for one, do and will do help any and all of you. You?

I travel a great deal to Southern France and Italy for work. For lodging, my clients rent villas usually located away from city centers to save money. The locals usually spot us as foreigners, how I know is because of the MANY stares. On several occasions while socializing at local pubs I'm told I look American from miles away. Just my personal experience on a few occasions.

 

[ThinkHard]

I am an anthropologist and can tell where someone is from simply by the way they smile (white teeth or not). If someone is targeting a certain group, the subtle cultural traits are easy to discern. I hate stereotypes...but in general they are true. Go to England and if there is some person speaking openly at the top of their lungs on their phone, they are American. No one else does that. It's not a negative...it just is what it is. I think Americans have such a hard time accepting that their behavior is obvious because we all take pride in individuatity....but our shoes, and our tone, and our smile give us away every time. (In addition to English books/guides etc.) Don't even know why this is much of an issue. Most people in the world can tell an American from yards away simply by the energy they put out. I love our energy. I don't see why it's a negative.

It is my experience (as an American who lived in Istanbul for a year) that the general population of Turkish people do not tend to quickly be able to identify someone as American. None Turkish yes, but not specifically American. Whenever I was asked where I was from and stated America, I always got surprised looks from them, they would say America? Really? Additional when I would be out with my Turkish friends and I would see another American (which I could spot instantly) and would say to them, they are American, they would ask me how I could tell.

This is my personal experience from living there. And what i am basing my feelings on this issue on. I can see how someone who had paid close attention to the mannerisms of people in order to target them could discern the differences as well. Or i suppose if an American was doing something very stereotypical. But from what I lived, someone being American was not immediately obvious to most Turks.

I know people are saying that they have had experiences in other countries where it was obvious to the locals that they were American. I've experienced this as well, in both France and the UK to name two. But we are not talking about a case in those countries, we are talking about a case in Turkey. And this is what I experienced, and so many other American I know who lived in Turkey for an extended period of time experienced.

Thus why I do not believe this tragedy had a thing to do with a random act of violence targeted at someone for being an American.

And why I believe discussing the stereotypes and arguing semantics based on experiences in countries other then Turkey is not applicable to this case.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Sorry; I haven't been involved until now. Just been lurking because I'm obsessed with Middle Eastern culture and have always wanted to go to Turkey. (Even though my Middle Eastern husband said no-way-in-hell I was going to such a dangerous place. Lol.) We're divorced now. I still want to go to Turkey. Hopefully someday I will.

Still my heart breaks for Sarai and her family. It's heavier than I can even imagine.

I WANTED to think Farhad was the man, but I just don't see it now. Surely a person under a microscope would not accept a random friendship within minutes. Poor guy probably has no idea of what he's being accused of.

Wouldn't swear to it but I'm pretty sure you need to be positive about someone before any info can be linked for just that reason.

 

[kmassoud]

Respectfully, I disagree.

How could you say you can immediately discern an American?

Who are Americans and how many live in this our wonderful country of the USA?

Do you realize that the term "Americans" includes many people of many diverse countries? To you, who is an American?

Let's not generalize. Let's acknowledge any and all nationalities and respect them equally.

Sorry, I do not accept that which you are saying.

Americans are you and I and so many more people. Think acceptance and love. Then, I will accept you and applaud you.

Until then, I love you and I understand you, dear friends, whatever your origin.

I, for one, do and will do help any and all of you. You?

I teach in an urban school, and have taught in International Schools. Black, Hispanic, White, 'Foreign' ....doesn't really matter. Although our culture IS diverse...there is a certain openess that few cultures contain. Yes, there are those who do not have it...but they still have more than most. I have been a lover of culture since I was 7 and have studied it endlessly since and have sought out hundreds of PenPals and foreign friends..and traveled all over the world. I'm a bit of an intellectual freak on that point, but feel it truly is something to be proud of.

I don't see ANY culture as negative or positive at this point....it just is what it is. I don't know why Americans are so opposed to fitting into a reasonable stereotype.

We are friendly. Those of us that choose to travel outside our borders are usually open-minded. We wear comfortable shoes, and if we don't, we wear a smile in place of those shoes. We are open about our feelings and thoughts and we embrace people that we intuitivily trust. I wouldn't have it any other way....

 

[ziggy]

Respectfully, I disagree.

How could you say you can immediately discern an American?

Who are Americans and how many live in this our wonderful country of the USA?

Do you realize that the term "Americans" includes many people of many diverse countries? To you, who is an American?

Let's not generalize. Let's acknowledge any and all nationalities and respect them equally.

Sorry, I do not accept that which you are saying.

Americans are you and I and so many more people. Think acceptance and love. Then, I will accept you and applaud you.

Until then, I love you and I understand you, dear friends, whatever your origin.

I, for one, do and will do help any and all of you. You?

I know this is just one example, but I used to work with and manage of lot of Vietnamese girls. I just really loved talking to them about their culture. One girl was going home to visit and she told me that the minute she arrives, they can tell she is from America, even if she dresses like they do. They can always tell the people who've been living in the U.S. even if they immigrated here recently. The other girls agreed. I just remember that because I thought it was so interesting. I pushed trying to figure out how that is possible and they could not answer except to say that it "just is".

 

[KuriousKev]

Makes me wonder how taylan and her even met?

I would think one of the many photo sharing sites where your images can reach a very large worldwide audience simply by hashtaging.

 

[EGirl]

Respectfully, I disagree.

How could you say you can immediately discern an American?

Who are Americans and how many live in this our wonderful country of the USA?

Do you realize that the term "Americans" includes many people of many diverse countries? To you, who is an American?

Let's not generalize. Let's acknowledge any and all nationalities and respect them equally.

Sorry, I do not accept that which you are saying.

Americans are you and I and so many more people. Think acceptance and love. Then, I will accept you and applaud you.

Until then, I love you and I understand you, dear friends, whatever your origin.

I, for one, do and will do help any and all of you. You?

Americans are people from America. Pretty simple. Of course there are many that live in America from different countries but once they come here to live/gain citizenship, they are AMERICAN.

 

[kmassoud]

It is my experience (as an American who lived in Istanbul for a year) that the general population of Turkish people do not tend to quickly be able to identify someone as American. None Turkish yes, but not specifically American. Whenever I was asked where I was from and stated America, I always got surprised looks from them, they would say America? Really? Additional when I would be out with my Turkish friends and I would see another American (which I could spot instantly) and would say to them, they are American, they would ask me how I could tell.

This is my personal experience from living there. And what i am basing my feelings on this issue on. I can see how someone who had paid close attention to the mannerisms of people in order to target them could discern the differences as well. Or i suppose if an American was doing something very stereotypical. But from what I lived, someone being American was not immediately obvious to most Turks.


Thus why I do not believe this tragedy had a thing to do with a random act of violence targeted at someone for being an American.

Honestly, I don't know how Canadians fit into this picture. I have not known enough to say that another culture would be able to see the difference between these things.....I do know, however, that most 'typical' Americans and Canadians would not being visiting Turkey in the firt place. I don't think this is AT ALL a case of someone being targeted because they are American...I can't say why Sarai was targeted...maybe only because her trusting nature....but few cultures are as trusting as we.

Other cultures are not ignorant...they DO know how trusting we are...Canada, America (even the UK, although it's a stretch).....we are not used to people being as nice to us as most Middle Easterners are. It feels delightful and natural to be treatied with the hospitality of the Middle East.

 

[NewYork625]

stick to the facts of this case... we are not discussing culture or generalizing about persons from one country or another. Take the warning seriously because the next post that I see about it (and attacking other posters with snark and personalization) can result in the temporary loss of posting abilities

:tos:

Bumping Nurse Beeme's post for anyone who didn't see it earlier.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

Heck I'm Canadian and I can spot you Americans a mile away! Lol. Kidding! Mwuah to all Americans

 

[kmassoud]

I know this is just one example, but I used to work with and manage of lot of Vietnamese girls. I just really loved talking to them about their culture. One girl was going home to visit and she told me that the minute she arrives, they can tell she is from America, even if she dresses like they do. They can always tell the people who've been living in the U.S. even if they immigrated here recently. The other girls agreed. I just remember that because I thought it was so interesting. I pushed trying to figure out how that is possible and they could not answer except to say that it "just is".

My Egyptian husband was noticed immediately as an "American" the minute he went anywhere in Cairo....which meant he had a great deal of respect....but still it was hard for me to comprehend at the time....HE WAS EGYPTIAN. HE LOOKED EGYPTIAN. HE SPOKE ARABIC. But still....people would see him and defer to him immediately. I found it terribly sad...but it was what it was.

 

[ThinkHard]

I teach in an urban school, and have taught in International Schools. Black, Hispanic, White, 'Foreign' ....doesn't really matter. Although our culture IS diverse...there is a certain openess that few cultures contain. Yes, there are those who do not have it...but they still have more than most. I have been a lover of culture since I was 7 and have studied it endlessly since and have sought out hundreds of PenPals and foreign friends..and traveled all over the world. I'm a bit of an intellectual freak on that point, but feel it truly is something to be proud of.

I don't see ANY culture as negative or positive at this point....it just is what it is. I don't know why Americans are so opposed to fitting into a reasonable stereotype.

We are friendly. Those of us that choose to travel outside our borders are usually open-minded. We wear comfortable shoes, and if we don't, we wear a smile in place of those shoes. We are open about our feelings and thoughts and we embrace people that we intuitivily trust. I wouldn't have it any other way....

Your post about openmindedness reminded we about something I always loved about Istanbul.

When I first moved there, I was sure that the women who wore headscarves would look down on me because I was somehow unchaste for not wearing one. But one evening I was trying to get back to where I lived, I had to take a bus along the seaside road (along the Bosphorous away from the touristy areas) and I couldn't figure out which bus I was suppose to get on, as they are all numbered. A women with a head scarf noticed me looking confused, and inTurkish asked me where I was going. I didn't know much Turkish yet but I could manage with body language and hand gestures to understand what she was asking. I told her. She was going to the same place.
She immediately acted so maternal and sweet to me and had me sit next to her on the bus and just smiled at me and patted my hand. There was no sign she looked down on me. She was kind and sweet and helpful.

During my time there I noticed that in groups of teenagers some girls heads would be covered, some wouldn't, but they were all mixed, all hanging out together, no judgements.

As I learned more about the culture and more about Islam, I understood that in Islam your relationship with god is between you and him, and no one else has the right to judge it. Headscarf or no headscarf manner of dress held no judgement as to what type of person an individual was.

I think in America we put a lot of emphasis on how people look, and judge their character on that. But in Turkey I didn't find the judgements on someone based on appearance to be nearly us harsh or important.

I just wanted to share this with you guys, because it is a little lesson from Turkish culture that I think is quite beautiful.

 

[KuriousKev]

Go to England and if there is some person speaking openly at the top of their lungs on their phone, they are American. No one else does that. It's not a negative...it just is what it is.

Interesting..

I have one last story on the topic then I'm done.

Traveled to Beijing in 2008 to cover the Olympics, while there my team (3 guys) would travel out of the Olympic Village and into the city for the club scene, which was just as lively as any American party scene. While leaving a club after a night of partying we met a local who suggested we quiet down a little... keep in mind we're leaving a club where the street is packed with party folk. I seriously thought that was the strangest comment. It's not like we were intoxicated and being unruly...I felt that we were actually rather cool that evening but our new Asian friend said we are too loud and Asian people don't like loud and aggressive people because it frightens them.

OK I'm done.

 

[kmassoud]

Sorry for all the culture stuff....just gets me excited. I don't think Sarai was targeted for her culture....just simply that it does not appear to me that Ferhad Kanat is Taylon. Darn it takes a lot of words to get my point across!

 

[ktgirl]

Thank you ThinkHard for that great post!

 

[ThinkHard]

Sorry for all the culture stuff....just gets me excited. I don't think Sarai was targeted for her culture....just simply that it does not appear to me that Ferhad Kanat is Taylon. Darn it takes a lot of words to get my point across!

Btw, you said you would love to visit Turkey. You should its amazing. Besides just Istanbul there is Pamukale, Cappadocia, Efes, Troy which are all historic and unique and amazing! (I encourage everyone to google image Pamukale and Cappadocia if you are unfamiliar with them, they are VERY unique!) there's also the seaside places like Bodrum, and Antalya and many many more.

Just one tip... Don't go to Istanbul in the summer. It is too hot, and too crowded, and it will give you the wrong impression of Turkish culture. Most of the people out and about in the summer are tourist, and the people are cranky by the end of it cause they are sick of so many tourists. (Especially when it also happens to be Ramadan, because then there hot, sick of tourists, hungry and hence extra cranky). Fall and spring are best.

 

[CMac2]

Looks like we all pretty much agree at this point that the fact that Sarai was American had nothing to do with her death. We may not completely agree on how easy/obvious it is to spot Americans in foreign countries, but at least we tend to agree on the other.

At this point, the only question I find myself asking is WHY TK killed Sarai, not if. I'm not 100% sold on motive just yet, but really can't help but think he harmed her. This crime seems personal- and has always felt that way somehow- so I don't think the motive had to do with her nationality, religion, or (perceived) financial status. I lean towards thinking he thought the relationship was deeper than it was, and when she attempted to set the record straight, he snapped. I don't even really think he planned this out in advance. I think it was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing, and I think he definitely panicked. Maybe he didn't intend to kill her, but flew into some sort of rage and before he realized what he'd done, she was gone. Don't we hear about that kind of thing here in the states all the time? If this was a crime committed on domestic soil, once most of us heard she'd last had contact with this strange Taylan figure, we'd have jumped to the same conclusion. That's my personal opinion, anyway.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

I do think Taylan was involved somehow. But what's with all the people they were questioning and all the DNA samples they are taking. Sounds like they may not think he was the only one involved.

 

[CMac2]

Btw, you said you would love to visit Turkey. You should its amazing. Besides just Istanbul there is Pamukale, Cappadocia, Efes, Troy which are all historic and unique and amazing! (I encourage everyone to google image Pamukale and Cappadocia if you are unfamiliar with them, they are VERY unique!) there's also the seaside places like Bodrum, and Antalya and many many more.

While I didn't live in Turkey, I did visit there, and I have to agree with you. It is like stepping into another world. Absolutely magical. I have never seen such history, beauty and just... I don't know, can't find the words... in any other place in the world.

Totally O/T, but one of the things that really hit me when I traveled through Europe- and especially Eastern Europe- was just how YOUNG the U.S. really is. We were all taught in history classes that our nation is a young one, but to go from my home where a 50 year old building is considered an historic monument to Europe, where structures have stood for many many hundreds of years is an experience all its own.