GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

[looking4answers]

That's a good point. If the jewelry she was wearing was all marked 14k, and the jewelry buried was marked 585, this would indeed seem very odd. In the US gold Jewelry is mark 14k (10k, 12k, 18k, 24k) but in turkey as well in other parts of Europe Jewelry is marked as to what percentage f the metal is gold. .585 is the equivalent to 14k.
If she has both types of jewelry at the scene, I would definitely wonder about the ones with the European markings. We know she hasn't been out of the country before so how would she have had them in her possession?

And if those were the buried ones, it would make sense the murdere would have left them with the body.

Which also reminds me why I think it's so strange about where her body was. How did someone manage to attack her, drags her, conceal her, and burry jewelry. A random criminal who happened upon her would not have take time to burry her jewelry, and only some of it. I find that peace very interesting. Almost like how the ancient Egyptian would bury the dead with expensive things. It's telling. I'm just not sure of what.

It sounds like her face was unrecognizable, a very brutal beating to the head. The off the record statements said that due to this, they think the jewlery fell off and got pushed into the ground. I don't think they were "buried" persay, just not lying there, more pushed into ground from the commotion.

 

[ThinkHard]

This is a good reference. Note the closest bridge...that's the Galata bridge. That is where Taylan would have been waiting, just at the end of it on the gold horn side. Follow the outer road which is Kennedy cadessi around and it's just around from the point where her body was found.

You can see both the walls and the railroad track from the picture. You can also get an idea of how far she walked to get there

http://www.1resimler.com/r-eminonu-resimleri-1861-eminonu-resimleri-11336.html

 

[Yellow]

I really think this was done by someone she 'knew' - either from IG (such as Taylan) or someone she met through one of those people or Taylan.

Given that she is a native New Yorker, I think she had street smarts and would not have gone alone to shady places or made herself look vulnerable. So I think she went to a secluded spot with someone she 'knew'.

I am not sure how street smart she was. I live in Manhattan and everyone assumes everyone from NYC has street smarts. She lived in Staten Island, which is very suburban. People drive their cars everywhere just like in the suburbs. It looks exactly like NJ or Long Island.

Very different than say the Bronx or even parts of Brooklyn or Queens. Even so NYC is an incredibly safe city, especially in Manhattan.

In a way if she met w an IG and was hurt in public, the danger she faced was the same danger millions (according to match.com) do every day when they meet someone for Internet dating (though she was not on a date) or other offline contact. Her being in Istanbul is irrelevant bc it could have happened in Kansas: meet someone online in public place & they kill you in public. It is EXTREMELY rare that happens bc otherwise w the wide extent of Internet dating there is now (as well as meetup groups etc) we would be hearing about it left and right, we don't. When is the last time you remember hearing about someone getting murdered meeting an Internet date? Esp when date is entirely in public?you do not hear about even even when there is private time let alone public time. The risk here was not much different (the only thing I think risky was her sleeping on couch in Amsterdam...that is a little dicey. But that turned out great and that guy seems like a great guy.)

 

[ami]

This is a good reference. Note the closest bridge...that's the Galata bridge. That is where Taylan would have been waiting, just at the end of it on the gold horn side. Follow the outer road which is Kennedy cadessi around and it's just around from the point where her body was found.

You can see both the walls and the railroad track from the picture. You can also get an idea of how far she walked to get there

http://www.1resimler.com/r-eminonu-resimleri-1861-eminonu-resimleri-11336.html

Would she have walked along the road or cut through the city to get to the place she was found (if she walked there under her own power)?

 

[belimom]

This is a good reference. Note the closest bridge...that's the Galata bridge. That is where Taylan would have been waiting, just at the end of it on the gold horn side. Follow the outer road which is Kennedy cadessi around and it's just around from the point where her body was found.

You can see both the walls and the railroad track from the picture. You can also get an idea of how far she walked to get there

http://www.1resimler.com/r-eminonu-resimleri-1861-eminonu-resimleri-11336.html

Thanks for posting the picture. I had posted one several pages back but I think the spot I highlighted was further along the road, rather than at the point. I do believe she was closer to the point, like you said.

One thing I read when I was researching that area is that it is a popular spot for people to photograph passing ships. This was stated on a few tourist guides about the point there at Sarayburnu, completely separate from and way before Sarai's case.

I wonder if that's the pretense that was used to get Sarai around the corner there. I don't think she was carried too far. My guess is they went over to the water side, took pictures/talked, then she was convinced to cross the street and look in those archways that we've seen. And was attacked there - and left there. Without any definitive word from LE about her being moved or not, that's my best guess.

 

[ToutCa]

Would she have walked along the road or cut through the city to get to the place she was found (if she walked there under her own power)?

The easiest route is along Kennedy Caddesi, the road. The other is way complicated, up and down big hills and trying to navigate around the palace. Unlikely.

 

[lavy]

This is a good reference. Note the closest bridge...that's the Galata bridge. That is where Taylan would have been waiting, just at the end of it on the gold horn side. Follow the outer road which is Kennedy cadessi around and it's just around from the point where her body was found.

You can see both the walls and the railroad track from the picture. You can also get an idea of how far she walked to get there

http://www.1resimler.com/r-eminonu-resimleri-1861-eminonu-resimleri-11336.html

Good one!

I have a map btw. Marked with: her room, mall she ate at, bridge, blue ones are the places she could have taken the ferry and red point approximate place she was found.

 

[ToutCa]

Thanks for posting the picture. I had posted one several pages back but I think the spot I highlighted was further along the road, rather than at the point. I do believe she was closer to the point, like you said.

Belimom, they subsequently posted the exact spot they found the body, and I think you were actually pretty much exactly right in your guess.

It was found further down the coast, not that close to the point.

Well done!!!!

 

[ami]

The easiest route is along Kennedy Caddesi, the road. The other is way complicated, up and down big hills and trying to navigate around the palace. Unlikely.

So she would have walked along the road on the water side (probably) and then had to cross the road and the train tracks to get to the wall? Is that what people do, is there a safe place to cross over?

 

[SurfieTX]

IF it is Taylan, I could see them meeting up, chatting all the while strolling and taking some pictures. There's a little mutual flirting going on during the walk. They pass by the walls and Taylan suggests slipping inside one of the nooks to "look at some graffiti" and steal a kiss. I can see that being mutual at first and perhaps getting a little heated with pants being unzipped, etc. I think it's at this point she comes to her senses and says no and tries to back away from it all and it enraged him. MOO...

 

[Wanderlust]

Just a few comments:

The area where Sarai was found if very central but at the same time there is a very busy street there, so a lot of traffic noise. I think she may have easily been killed on the spot without anyone hearing her screams.

Secondly, I don't think Taylan's alleged reluctance to help or speak with the husband necessarily means he killed her. I think as a Turk in his 30's (as has been reported) he already felt he was doing something "dodgy" talking to, and meeting with someone else's wife. I have lived in both the Middle East and Turkey, and it is not really considered acceptable in those cultures, especially with people in their 30's and older. And maybe Talay has a wife or girlfriend himself. If he really is 31, as has been said, then that's very likely.

Of course, if he was a decent person, he would've spoken with the husband and gone to the police straightaway. But maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was someone slightly sleazy, who befriended a pretty American lady on the Internet, who then told her she was going to come and visit Istanbul, and he was hoping to "benefit" from this somehow.

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree with your summary except for the bolded parts. I so far don't really see anything that says she was bored with her husband or found him dull. Traveling without him doesn't have to mean there was a problem, just that she had her own life and interests. And I'm still in the camp of buying her IG posts that there was a problem with her college enrollment that she had to attend to in person. She didn't change her plans directly before she left - her post about leaving early came somewhere around the Amsterdam trip, and so she must have changed that earlier. Mix in some homesickness for her boys. I get that....



I saw some posts Sarai made to others in NY about getting together for photo walks. I got the feeling they'd done that before a few times (she says "another photo walk" in her posts about NY). So this trip was probably the international extension of the photo walks.

I personally think most people are good, non-murderers, non-rapists and so the overwhelming majority of the time your interactions would be positive for getting together. Sarai sounded like she had really good interactions with IG people. Her A'dam "guide" seemed like a smart and fun person, too. I can understand how she felt confident about something she had done before and enjoyed.



Okay here's my thing about Taylan.

Didn't she leave the house THINKING she was going to meet with Taylan? She asked to meet with him, he said he'd meet with her, she went to the Bridge intending (I'm assuming) she would meet with him. So why would she have met with a different IG'er instead? How would she have changed her plans so quickly that when Taylan didn't show up and she got tired of waiting for him, she was able to contact yet another IG'er and arrange to meet with him instead? And how would she have communicated? She didn't have her Turkish cell with her (by all reports) and so she'd have to use wifi, and as our "locals" have said, that's not necessarily easy to come by on the fly. She would have to have stopped somewhere, asked to use the internet... that sounds like something someone would have remembered, a waiter, etc.

So that's why I think it was either Taylan or someone she met while walking around... because she left the house believing she would probably meet up with him and so I can't see how she'd have made other plans with someone else at the same time.

The weird thing about their agreed meeting is she had first said she was coming down from the tower would he come.

But taylans story was that they had agreed to meet at the eminonu side of the bridge. Not at the tower.

I wonder what accounts for the discrepancy? Maybe they didn't have plans to meet at the bridge originally. Perhaps it was more like sarai said, I'm planning to go here and here. And he said ill come if I can. Then perhaps when he wasnt able to make the tower portion of her day, plans changed to meet at that end of the bridge.

Additionally she was seen at one end of the bridge at 1210 and on serkeci cams at 115. It would not have taken an hr to get from point a to point b. so what was she doing for that hr? Taking pictures on the bridge possibly. But also possible that she stopped in a cafe along the bridge and may have used the Internet. I think the records of those communication would have been done over Skye, or possibly have been deleted.

But I think there was commutation that happened either btw her and Taylan, or her and someone else, and that info has not come out, either because it has not been released or it hasn't been discovered yet.

 

[CMac2]

Posting this mostly for the pictures- not really any new info or anything. I do note the article says she was found with her jacket on, FWIW.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Turkey-reveals-heartbreak.html#axzz2K2kwpsYO

 

[KuriousKev]

I am not sure how street smart she was. I live in Manhattan and everyone assumes everyone from NYC has street smarts. She lived in Staten Island, which is very suburban. People drive their cars everywhere just like in the suburbs. It looks exactly like NJ or Long Island.

Very different than say the Bronx or even parts of Brooklyn or Queens. Even so NYC is an incredibly safe city, especially in Manhattan.

She lived in Stapleton, SI with her family. Staten Island, like all places, have their rougher areas and Stapleton is one. The largest public housing development on SI is in Stapleton. Just FYI

 

[ThinkHard]

Would she have walked along the road or cut through the city to get to the place she was found (if she walked there under her own power)?

Along the road is my guess. It would have been almost impossible to get there any other way because topkapi palace is right there. If she walked through the city, she would have had to do a big loop through other touristy areas and a camera would have spotted her.

 

[ToutCa]

So she would have walked along the road on the water side (probably) and then had to cross the road and the train tracks to get to the wall? Is that what people do, is there a safe place to cross over?

Ohhh, good point.

I revise: I think she probably crossed the RR tracks where the little road goes over them at the point and continued along the walls from that point.

If she went up by the palace the back way, that has so many tourist places I think she would have been caught on camera again at multiple places.

And I don't think she crossed the RR tracks on foot by herself.

My estimation of her route is just a guess -- Lavy and ThinkHard should also weigh in...

 

[ThinkHard]

So she would have walked along the road on the water side (probably) and then had to cross the road and the train tracks to get to the wall? Is that what people do, is there a safe place to cross over?

No she wouldn't have crossed any tracks to get to the wall. From the sea, it goes; sea, sidewalk, road (4 lanes, 2 each way), grassy area, wall, more grass and woods, train tracks, woods, the topkapi.

Also she was found past the point, not at the point, I was merely pointing it out as a reference.

 

[KuriousKev]

Just a few comments:
Secondly, I don't think Taylan's alleged reluctance to help or speak with the husband necessarily means he killed her. I think as a Turk in his 30's (as has been reported) he already felt he was doing something "dodgy" talking to, and meeting with someone else's wife. I have lived in both the Middle East and Turkey, and it is not really considered acceptable in those cultures, especially with people in their 30's and older. And maybe Talay has a wife or girlfriend himself. If he really is 31, as has been said, then that's very likely.

It was said somewhere that (I'll locate it) most of her followers did not know SS had a family, you certainly cannot tell from her IG postings. Did she tell these men she was married with a family? We don't know.

 

[ami]

No she wouldn't have crossed any tracks to get to the wall. From the sea, it goes; sea, sidewalk, road (4 lanes, 2 each way), grassy area, wall, more grass and woods, train tracks, woods, the topkapi.

Also she was found past the point, not at the point, I was merely pointing it out as a reference.

Oh, okay, in the picture it looked like the train tracks ran right next to the road after the turn away from the water - but farther down the wall must be between the road & tracks. Thanks!

 

[stmarysmead]

I agree with your summary except for the bolded parts. I so far don't really see anything that says she was bored with her husband or found him dull. Traveling without him doesn't have to mean there was a problem, just that she had her own life and interests. And I'm still in the camp of buying her IG posts that there was a problem with her college enrollment that she had to attend to in person. She didn't change her plans directly before she left - her post about leaving early came somewhere around the Amsterdam trip, and so she must have changed that earlier. Mix in some homesickness for her boys. I get that....



I saw some posts Sarai made to others in NY about getting together for photo walks. I got the feeling they'd done that before a few times (she says "another photo walk" in her posts about NY). So this trip was probably the international extension of the photo walks.

I personally think most people are good, non-murderers, non-rapists and so the overwhelming majority of the time your interactions would be positive for getting together. Sarai sounded like she had really good interactions with IG people. Her A'dam "guide" seemed like a smart and fun person, too. I can understand how she felt confident about something she had done before and enjoyed.



Okay here's my thing about Taylan.

Didn't she leave the house THINKING she was going to meet with Taylan? She asked to meet with him, he said he'd meet with her, she went to the Bridge intending (I'm assuming) she would meet with him. So why would she have met with a different IG'er instead? How would she have changed her plans so quickly that when Taylan didn't show up and she got tired of waiting for him, she was able to contact yet another IG'er and arrange to meet with him instead? And how would she have communicated? She didn't have her Turkish cell with her (by all reports) and so she'd have to use wifi, and as our "locals" have said, that's not necessarily easy to come by on the fly. She would have to have stopped somewhere, asked to use the internet... that sounds like something someone would have remembered, a waiter, etc.

So that's why I think it was either Taylan or someone she met while walking around... because she left the house believing she would probably meet up with him and so I can't see how she'd have made other plans with someone else at the same time.

At least one article referenced earlier in the thread stated that she had moved in with her parents these last months...though it sounds like communication was certainly wide open. That was my point of reference