GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #2

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looking4answers said:
Btw, this is on the American women VS Turkish women topic, and though I know Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country, it is where East meets West, and obviously has more openess than say Saudi Arabia. So with that in mind, after coming across this page of actual Turkish woman living IN Turkey (Most still living in Turkey it appears), I have to agree with ThinkingHard and others who have stated that Sarai wasn't exactly dressed provocatively with her clothes. Take a look at some of the pics of the girls at the Turkish clubs or just outside, looks like SoCal or Miami or other cities of young women dressed down in the summertime.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Turkish-Girls/135437133246676

So I debunk the theory she was targeted for the way she was dressed, just do not believe it at all.

ps: I now find Turkish women to be highly attractive.
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And people can watch here in real time how the general public dresses in Istanbul on these excellent webcams. (I suggest you check out Istiklal street in this regard.)

http://www.ibb.gov.tr/en-US/Organization/MunicipalHistory/Pages/Live_City_View_in_Istanbul.aspx

Also have a look at the Eminönü webcam. I believe that shows Galata Bridge on the side that Sarai was last seen.

These webcams are realtime and provide an excellent feel for the various areas of Istanbul, if you are interested.
 
lillygator said:
as a mom to 3 ages 1, 8 and 10, no way no how would I ever leave the country without them until they are adults. and while I love the fact I can travel alone as a woman, heck, I have NO desire to. is this all for an affair?
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I have it a 75/25 split between affair and adventure although both pretty much are the same! Then the creepy landlord decided to end it all.
 
Snoopster said:
And people can watch here in real time how the general public dresses in Istanbul on these excellent webcams. (I suggest you check out Istiklal street in this regard.)

http://www.ibb.gov.tr/en-US/Organization/MunicipalHistory/Pages/Live_City_View_in_Istanbul.aspx

Also have a look at the Eminönü webcam. I believe that shows Galata Bridge on the side that Sarai was last seen.

These webcams are realtime and provide an excellent feel for the various areas of Istanbul, if you are interested.
Click to expand...

Wow so cool, thanks for sharing! The clarity and resolution with some of these live-views are great.
 
Rolandred said:
A really good point about being able to take time off - 3 weeks from a part time job? - that's a luxury even with a full time job (in USA) -and if they needed the money - really odd.
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Sorry, just slightly O/T (and haven't finished reading the thread yet so not sure if it's been addressed), but do you not have annual leave each year in the US? Here in Aus we get 4 weeks of paid leave a year, even in part time employment (as long as you have a contract), the pay while on leave is just equivalent to whatever you would earn each week with a little extra in leave loading. And the annual leave builds up each year if you don't use it, so it's possible to take much longer than 4 weeks off in a year and still get paid for it (plus a little extra). Just curious, I assumed it was quite similar to here so hadn't given it much thought. :o

I also don't find it odd that she went overseas when she had small children. It's a lot more affordable for only one parent to go (plus the kids have someone to stay with at home), and it's possible her husband wasn't really interested in traveling to Istanbul. I think that if he knew it was something she was passionate about and really wanted to do, it wouldn't have been an issue and they would have found a way for her to go. I know my partner, while he would prefer if we were able to do it together (and we've yet to go on a solo trip), would not have a problem at all with me taking the opportunity to go over and do some solo travel while I'm still young. Even if it was really pushing our budget, travel is something my partner and I don't take for granted. If an opportunity comes up we take it, we find a way to make it happen. Life is too short for wasted opportunities.

I honestly think that we're only looking at two possibilities... either Sarai trusted the wrong person and was killed by one of her Turkish 'friends' (I think we all know who in particular), or she was robbed for her iPad and phone by an opportunistic thief. I think I'm leaning towards her being harmed by a 'friend', it's so easy to trust someone you've built an online relationship with, you honestly believe you know them as well as you know your 'real' friends. I don't buy into any of this affair or drug/gold/whatever smuggling as I don't believe there's any actual proof to suggest this, I just think that Sarai was a very trusting young woman who was horribly taken advantage of.

Rest in peace, Sarai. I'm sorry your first true adventure overseas ended this way. :rose:
 
looking4answers said:
Btw, this is on the American women VS Turkish women topic, and though I know Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country, it is where East meets West, and obviously has more openess than say Saudi Arabia. So with that in mind, after coming across this page of actual Turkish woman living IN Turkey (Most still living in Turkey it appears), I have to agree with ThinkingHard and others who have stated that Sarai wasn't exactly dressed provocatively with her clothes. Take a look at some of the pics of the girls at the Turkish clubs or just outside, looks like SoCal or Miami or other cities of young women dressed down in the summertime.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Turkish-Girls/135437133246676

So I debunk the theory she was targeted for the way she was dressed, just do not believe it at all.

ps: I now find Turkish women to be highly attractive.
Click to expand...

LOL - I don't think those are just Turkish "girls." Seems like an ad of "sorts." :what:
 
Snoopster said:
And people can watch here in real time how the general public dresses in Istanbul on these excellent webcams. (I suggest you check out Istiklal street in this regard.)

http://www.ibb.gov.tr/en-US/Organization/MunicipalHistory/Pages/Live_City_View_in_Istanbul.aspx

Also have a look at the Eminönü webcam. I believe that shows Galata Bridge on the side that Sarai was last seen.

These webcams are realtime and provide an excellent feel for the various areas of Istanbul, if you are interested.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I am very impressed with the streaming real time video quality. Looks like it's raining over there, I'll have to check again when the sun is out, but very cool!
 
Public_Hysteria said:
Sorry, just slightly O/T (and haven't finished reading the thread yet so not sure if it's been addressed), but do you not have annual leave each year in the US? Here in Aus we get 4 weeks of paid leave a year, even in part time employment (as long as you have a contract), the pay while on leave is just equivalent to whatever you would earn each week with a little extra in leave loading. And the annual leave builds up each year if you don't use it, so it's possible to take much longer than 4 weeks off in a year and still get paid for it (plus a little extra). Just curious, I assumed it was quite similar to here so hadn't given it much thought. :o

In the US, if you are not self-employed, and work full time, you generally work for one year before you get vacation time, which is normally 2 weeks (10 paid days). After 5 years employment, you generally get 3 weeks (15 paid days). Anything beyond 3 weeks is somewhat out of the norm. This is a generalization. Also, part time employees such as Sarai may get fewer vacation days, or none at all.
Click to expand...
 
NewYork625 said:
In the US, if you are not self-employed, and work full time, you generally work for one year before you get vacation time, which is normally 2 weeks (10 paid days). After 5 years employment, you generally get 3 weeks (15 paid days). Anything beyond 3 weeks is somewhat out of the norm. This is a generalization. Also, part time employees such as Sarai may get fewer vacation days, or none at all.
Click to expand...

Haha, thanks. I felt a bit silly for asking, but it definitely cleared up some of the confusion for me. :p
 
Not that I am picking sides, but just as I had posted this earlier for Ami, I do believe and agree there is a fair amount of women - married and even with kids - that travel solo, irregardless of if they did a lot when younger or single. I don't agree there is a direct correlation. I think the only real correlation is how "Adventurous" and willing to push the "Risk Reward" threshold some women are, and as I know personally many women either single, married, and married/w kids that do take trips with their gfs, one or more or solo yes, that it must be fairly common. I think what people are biased on, is based not just on the experience of knowing or not knowing friends who do, but also on societal norms they have grown up with. This is understandable. Yet, it mainly seems to be based directly on the idea of somehow "abandonment" of their offspring. I do not agree. Kids go away to camp, parents need time outs too. I personally know many who do, for varying reasons.

Anyways, as I had posted earlier, here is a woman who is on the forefront of representing this "niche" of women travellers and who took the time to specifically write about women who do in relation to Sarai. Seems like an ode to support Sarais adventurous spirit to do so and why it is normal for her to have wanted and to have done so. Kudos to her for writing the article, I think it was timely and needed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/teres...r-sarai-sierra-and-solo-travel_b_2618523.html

She seems to make a case for how this is not uncommon, as well as the communities that exist out there and the things to take into consideration for women that do.


ps: wanted to add, my mother took several trips when we were younger back to Holland to be with family for a few weeks at a time. Yes, this was family related, but at times I know it also was she needed a "break". Some Moms do get a form post partem after birth. There is an argument this could be at any time with young kids, and parents need to make sure they don't have nervous breakdowns. I would rather a parent be healthy with a quick break, then to be at a breaking point and snap.
 
Public_Hysteria said:
Haha, thanks. I felt a bit silly for asking, but it definitely cleared up some of the confusion for me. :p
Click to expand...

Don't feel bad for asking. Until I moved overseas to Egypt and met expats from other countries, I had no idea people got 4 to 6 weeks off in other countries. We were told by one of these expats that the saying in their country (I can't recall which country it was) is that they 'work to live', while Americans 'live to work'.
 
NewYork625 said:
What does the headline "Taylan Degil Tarkan" mean?
Click to expand...

Google translate says 'Tarkan is not Taylan'. Is that correct? (Nevermind - I see now that it means something different. Still, I wonder about the 2nd guy mentioned in the article)

ETA - The latest NY Times article posted upthread says that she met at least two IG friends in Turkey. I wonder if perhaps Taylan is *not* Tarkan. Hmmm.
 
lillygator said:
as a mom to 3 ages 1, 8 and 10, no way no how would I ever leave the country without them until they are adults. and while I love the fact I can travel alone as a woman, heck, I have NO desire to. is this all for an affair?
Click to expand...

I think too there had to be a pretty strong pull to go there. Whether it be an affair, an Eat, Pray, Love type of adventure or something else, something had to be pulling her there.

It has been debated extensively earlier w some people having strong opinions otherwise which I respect, but IMO most parents (especially parents w limited money) do not leave their kids for 3 weeks unless there is a very strong pull. It is only relevant here if that pull relates to her death which it may or may not

She might have not been totally happy w her marriage and liked the attention she was getting w something she was good at. She never had a career so perhaps her newfound interest in photography was something she was getting praised for, and like most of us, she would have liked the attention and praise. Maybe she felt under appreciated (as many mothers do)

It might never have developed into a full fledged affair- Maybe it was just flirting and attention. And then someone got the wrong impression. I personally do not think she actually cheated physically on her husband, though I do think she was a little bored in her marriage.

It still is not clear to me whether we know for a fact whether Taylan is saying he had sex in the bathroom w her. Not sure if there is a translation issue OR whether the lawyer is just trying to dodge.
 
Yellow said:
I think too there had to be a pretty strong pull to go there. Whether it be an affair, an Eat, Pray, Love type of adventure or something else, something had to be pulling her there.

It has been debated extensively earlier w some people having strong opinions otherwise which I respect, but IMO most parents (especially parents w limited money) do not leave their kids for 3 weeks unless there is a very strong pull. It is only relevant here if that pull relates to her death which it may or may not

She might have not been totally happy w her marriage and liked the attention she was getting w something she was good at. She never had a career so perhaps her newfound interest in photography was something she was getting praised for, and like most of us, she would have liked the attention and praise. Maybe she felt under appreciated (as many mothers do)

It might never have developed into a full fledged affair- Maybe it was just flirting and attention. And then someone got the wrong impression. I personally do not think she actually cheated physically on her husband, though I do think she was a little bored in her marriage.

It still is not clear to me whether we know for a fact whether Taylan is saying he had sex in the bathroom w her. Not sure if there is a translation issue OR whether the lawyer is just trying to dodge.
Click to expand...

Maybe too she felt that photography was her calling, and hoped to make a career out of it. She certainly seemed to have found a certain level of international fame among her IG followers. It must have bolstered her ego to realize she had a true talent. I wonder what classes she had planned to take? Maybe photography classes?
 
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