GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[Herat]

Yup. Not to mention, whoever crammed her body into that small space had apparently already dragged her 328 feet. That can't have been easy for a single guy (sorry, assume it's a guy).

And I'm still not convinced that "last video" of her walking is SS. To me it looks like she's wearing a red jacket/coat, not the usual leather jacket. Am I the only one who doesn't think it's her?

We've all expressed some doubts about it. Hence the "red shirt lady decoy" theory. I have to think LE has concluded it is her, if only by correlating the clothing found on her with the video.

 

[SANDOVAL]

I don't see how you would get a body bag on or off the train in that area without taking a huge risk of being seen.

It occurs to me there are also probably surveillance cameras for those railroad lines as they are coming into a congested area near the station and would want to document pedestrians possibly on the tracks. Or, trains may have their own cameras on the lead engine.

There is always night time, and if Z or someone was often seen with a big garbage bag, thinking of the 'quality' of surveillance footage so far......?

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Yup. Not to mention, whoever crammed her body into that small space had apparently already dragged her 328 feet. That can't have been easy for a single guy (sorry, assume it's a guy).

And I'm still not convinced that "last video" of her walking is SS. To me it looks like she's wearing a red jacket/coat, not the usual leather jacket. Am I the only one who doesn't think it's her?

we went back and forth on whether it was her last night. even someone who knew her in life was doubting it. i think it could be her, and that red part of the video - looks like something she is carrying. a red bag or box. someone mentioned the weather was 63, maybe she decided on a lighter jacket. the closer still that was published some threads ago looks like her and that was from that day. only it doesn't show that bag...which could mean she bought it that day. i mean essentially she is walking 'back' to the bridge, towards the apartment, right? or am i totally turned around looking at those googlemap images? :websleuther:

 

[SANDOVAL]

Yup. Not to mention, whoever crammed her body into that small space had apparently already dragged her 328 feet. That can't have been easy for a single guy (sorry, assume it's a guy).

And I'm still not convinced that "last video" of her walking is SS. To me it looks like she's wearing a red jacket/coat, not the usual leather jacket. Am I the only one who doesn't think it's her?

Good heavens nooooo, we did toss that around a lot yesterday....you have the same feeling then?

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

i still can't shake the fact that she was killed the day before she was leaving. coincidence? i still think someone she 'knew' (IG friend or someone she had met there) was involved.

 

[Herat]

we went back and forth on whether it was her last night. even someone who knew her in life was doubting it. i think it could be her, and that red part of the video - looks like something she is carrying. a red bag or box. someone mentioned the weather was 63, maybe she decided on a lighter jacket. the closer still that was published some threads ago looks like her and that was from that day. only it doesn't show that bag...which could mean she bought it that day. i mean essentially she is walking 'back' to the bridge, towards the apartment, right? or am i totally turned around looking at those googlemap images? :websleuther:

I don't believe LE has claimed those shots were in sequence. I think the closeup is taken much closer to the bridge, on the water side of the road, judging from the stantions along the curb. This may just be the best image of her taken that afternoon near the walls, but not the very last in sequence.

I think there is a smaller tannish bag under her right arm. The video may just be that bag moving a bit or her shirt or jacket blousing out because of movement. I don't think she was carrying anything other than a bag.

 

[Rolandred]

There is always night time, and if Z or someone was often seen with a big garbage bag, thinking of the 'quality' of surveillance footage so far......?

So how does LE have a photo of "Z" ? Has he been arrested/detained before? Does he have a criminal history? Where has the photo printed in the press come from? Who released it? How do they have a full photo portrait of a paper/garbage collector on file? Okay...in US I don't think this would be possible unless a previous arrest and personally, the guy looks mean and scary...

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

I don't believe LE has claimed those shots were in sequence. I think the closeup is taken much closer to the bridge, on the water side of the road, judging from the stantions along the curb. This may just be the best image of her taken that afternoon near the walls, but not the very last in sequence.

I think there is a smaller tannish bag under her right arm. The video may just be that bag moving a bit or her shirt or jacket blousing out because of movement. I don't think she was carrying anything other than a bag.

in which direction is she walking, though?

 

[StCirq]

We've all expressed some doubts about it. Hence the "red shirt lady decoy" theory. I have to think LE has concluded it is her, if only by correlating the clothing found on her with the video.

OK, but it doesn't look like the red shirt lady, either. The red thing looks like a jacket/coat to me. The other woman looked like she was wearing a long red shirt/jersey.

 

[Herat]

In the video footage, she is walking toward the walls, toward Sarayburnu.

I can't tell exactly where the still shot is from. That grid pattern on the concrete is very distinctive, but I have't been able to find it yet.

 

[CMac2]

Again, is there any chance she was somehow transported in a body bag by train and tossed off there, with Z doing the next part....the hiding of the body?

Help me with this. I'm having a tough time with the imagery. If she was tossed from a nearby train, how would she have gotten inside the first cave? Even if Z moved her to the 2nd cave (where her body was ultimately found). If her body was tossed from the train, that means someone had to put her in the first cave and then move her to the 2nd cave. Remember LE says she was killed in another cave, about 328 ft from the cave her body was found. They say they realized this when they used luminol in the 1st cave.

How long, exactly, does luminol work? Let's say an animal (or human) was killed in the 1st cave a year ago. Would luminol illuminate the dried blood/fluids from a year ago? Also, what evidence does LE have to show that what the luminol caught is actually from SS, and not a dead animal?

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[StCirq]

Good heavens nooooo, we did toss that around a lot yesterday....you have the same feeling then?

Sorry, I was busy yesterday and just skimmed. It's true it's a crappy video, but it doesn't look at all to me like SS>

But to go back to cramming the body into that small cave, I realize I mentioned that whoever did it had already dragged it 328 feet. That was a stupid assumption. There could have been any number of people involved:

The murderer
The person who found her murdered and decided to move her for whatever reason
The person who crammed her into the cave
The person who covered her body with the blanket

Any combination, I suppose, is possible, but I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see how it could all have been accomplished with any alacrity by a single person.

 

[english]

I don't believe LE has claimed those shots were in sequence. I think the closeup is taken much closer to the bridge, on the water side of the road, judging from the stantions along the curb. This may just be the best image of her taken that afternoon near the walls, but not the very last in sequence.

I think there is a smaller tannish bag under her right arm. The video may just be that bag moving a bit or her shirt or jacket blousing out because of movement. I don't think she was carrying anything other than a bag.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is seeing a small tan coloured bag.

I thought the closeup was on the opposite side to the water judging by the traffic (but my sense of direction is not good!). I'm going to go back to look again.

Forgive my next question, I am new to sleuthing. I'm wondering why LE released these pictures when they did. Surely if they had been released earlier someone may have come forward to say they had seen her. Would it be just that the press were baying and the public needed to see that LE are working on the case?

The only new news report I have seen today was to say that the passenger records and video surveillance of the bus station Z supposedly left from have been checked and the officers have returned to Istanbul with them today.

I also read a report about the forensics team working on the case

http://pazarvatan.gazetevatan.com/haberdetay.asp?hkat=1&hid=19983

 

[CMac2]

Also, regarding the theory that she may have been tossed from the train, I think that would have been difficult (if not impossible) to pull off. I believe it was Yashim who told us that the trains that run those tracks are passenger trains. How would the perp have tossed her from a passenger train- or better yet, gotten her onto the train to begin with?

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[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Help me with this. I'm having a tough time with the imagery. If she was tossed from a nearby train, how would she have gotten inside the first cave? Even if Z moved her to the 2nd cave (where her body was ultimately found). If her body was tossed from the train, that means someone had to put her in the first cave and then move her to the 2nd cave. Remember LE says she was killed in another cave, about 328 ft from the cave her body was found. They say they realized this when they used luminol in the 1st cave.

How long, exactly, does luminol work? Let's say an animal (or human) was killed in the 1st cave a year ago. Would luminol illuminate the dried blood/fluids from a year ago? Also, what evidence does LE have to show that what the luminol caught is actually from SS, and not a dead animal?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2

FYI

1. A mixture of luminol powder and hydrogen peroxide is mixed in a spray bottle like you buy at the grocery store.
2. The mixture is sprayed on areas where blood (or other substances) are expected to be.
3. The mixture reacts to many things, but one of them is the iron in hemoglobin (a component of blood) which causes the mixture to glow. The luminol, like the light stick, has a limited fluorescent life. In the forensics application, the glow lasts about 30 seconds.
4. On those areas where you get a “hit”, you photograph quickly, and then test the site for indicators of what the “hit” was. You first test for the presence of blood, then if not blood; other substances. If it is blood, you can then conduct a DNA test. (Luminol does not disrupt blood or DNA testing).
5. Importantly, you take a control sample from a nearby area that did NOT fluoresce, so you can be certain that your tests are valid.
6. There is no difference in the fluorescent color of luminol, no matter what substance it is reacting with. If it reacts with blood, it is blue. If it reacts with bleach, it is the same color of blue.

 

[zarra30]

Also, regarding the theory that she may have been tossed from the train, I think that would have been difficult (if not impossible) to pull off. I believe it was Yashim who told us that the trains that run those tracks are passenger trains. How would the perp have tossed her from a passenger train- or better yet, gotten her onto the train to begin with?

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I don't know about those trains but NYC subway trains and ones going upstate have connecting cars, and anyone can step outside from one car to the inside of the other. It could be a person who wouldn't look odd carrying a sack or something large enough to hide a body, maybe a homeless guy or someone disguised as a homeless guy or any sort of person that might look unsuspicious carrying a sack/bag/crate, whatever, and maybe he could have a helper, or just get off at the next stop and doubled back. But quite risky, I'd think and not easy.

We'd need someone familiar with Istanbul to answer the train setups.

And there was also that talk about the lady who saw a car, but I think they dismissed her.
Wait....are you asking/ thinking she was alive on the train and that someone pushed her off?

 

[Herat]

So how does LE have a photo of "Z" ? Has he been arrested/detained before? Does he have a criminal history? Where has the photo printed in the press come from? Who released it? How do they have a full photo portrait of a paper/garbage collector on file? Okay...in US I don't think this would be possible unless a previous arrest and personally, the guy looks mean and scary...

alpmighty did a fine job of explaining how the Turkish LE have photo ID's on everyone and have really good documentation on Turkish citizens, as they are always dealing with illegal immigrants, smugglers, and generally bad guys from all over.

 

[SANDOVAL]

We've all expressed some doubts about it. Hence the "red shirt lady decoy" theory. I have to think LE has concluded it is her, if only by correlating the clothing found on her with the video.

But..ther's practically nothing clear in the video except blue pants and some kind of jacket (which was missing anyway)

 

[Herat]

But..ther's practically nothing clear in the video except blue pants and some kind of jacket (which was missing anyway)

And a red or orange shirt, and the sunglasses

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

I also read a report about the forensics team working on the case

http://pazarvatan.gazetevatan.com/haberdetay.asp?hkat=1&hid=19983

really? anything interesting there?